Members Chummy Posted December 21, 2014 Members Share Posted December 21, 2014 So I bought this almost mint looking dx7IIFD with E! grey expansion (the guy who sold me didn't know it has it but I found that out later lol). SOOOOO difficult to program. The buttons are cool though. I don't mind them already gotten used to them for a couple of days. But what does each algorithm do? what does it mean? what is pitch envelope (is it the same as volume EG?) arghh this thing is so confusing. I init a sound to a sine wave and want to shape one from scratch but no matter what I press the sound won't change much and it is still a sine wave. I am sure I bashed all the buttons and I read the PDF manual nothing was written there. I know how to program an analog synth but FM is much new to me. Any chances someone explains me how to program a dx7iifd or at least direct me to sites or sources?? THANK YOU HARMONY SYNTHRAL members Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 21, 2014 Members Share Posted December 21, 2014 First tip: learn to program it with a computer Second tip: experiment for hours Operators are sine wave modulators. Algorithms are just the pattern that the operators are connected together. Some have a loop, that is feedback. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 21, 2014 Members Share Posted December 21, 2014 Ps - I used paragraphs, but the forum ate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted December 22, 2014 Members Share Posted December 22, 2014 I made this to help....it's a very basic beginning to learning FM, but it will help http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/Keyboards/acapella-18/31350443-programming-a-dx7-made-easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chummy Posted December 30, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2014 hey thanks, i am watching NY school of synthesis vid too, and it's been really great help, now that I know how to work with the buttons to change sound. Now to the getting "good" sound out of it. Also, how do I make the mod wheel apply for all sounds the same way like the pitch bend does? can't seem to find the option. Do I really have to go to each sound and tweak it? that'd be so tedious man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mmmmqac Posted December 31, 2014 Members Share Posted December 31, 2014 My favorite approach to sound discovery on a DX-7 is to begin with a sound that I like the feel of, i.e., it responds well to velocity. Next I play with the algorithm parameter, trying out the other 31 different algorithms. (This can produce some quite radical sounds.) I choose the one that shows the most promise, and then disable all but one carrier to hear what its branch contributes to the overall sound. Some branches will be helping the sound while other branches may be spoiling the sound. If a branch sounds bad, I try disabling and enabling the modulators in that branch to see what they contribute, then make choices to alter their frequency, level and envelopes. After I have made the bad branch less bad I then move onto the nice branch and CAREFULLY tweak it to see if any improvement is possible. I won't elaborate any more than this because once you start doing this, you will discover for yourself how you want to continue. The beauty of this method is that you start with a good sound and then get to hear 31 radical variations straight away that can surprise and inspire you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 31, 2014 Members Share Posted December 31, 2014 Just curious ... are there any synths in current production that are based on similar FM synthesis technology similar that which was used on the old DX7 / DX7II series synths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 31, 2014 Members Share Posted December 31, 2014 I think the Nord Electro has a three (or so) operator synth. Not very capable on its own. The old Adlib PC sound cards shared a lot of ideas with the DX series. You know what else you never see anymore? Korg Wavestation - Vector/Wavetrain synthesis. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted January 1, 2015 Members Share Posted January 1, 2015 Pitch modulation adds vibrato......amplitude modulation adds tremelo or "helicopter" (square wave under LFO)......if the modulation wheel isn't programmed, you have to set it up using PMS or AMS in brown and purple and under LFO.....save the sound to a user location and it will retain it's settings....rename the sound so you remember what it is before you store it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members erok123 Posted January 1, 2015 Members Share Posted January 1, 2015 Just curious ... are there any synths in current production that are based on similar FM synthesis technology similar that which was used on the old DX7 / DX7II series synths? You can get NI FM8 (virtual FM) which I think is quite nice. Very easy to program sounds with and will help to understand how FM synthesis works. You can also load DX7 patches into it. http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synths/fm8/pricing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted January 2, 2015 Members Share Posted January 2, 2015 Many Yamaha keyboards support PLG boards and two are DX7's (one is an improved one over the original).....the newest Motif to use them was released on 2003....The Motif ES.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 2, 2015 Members Share Posted January 2, 2015 You can get NI FM8 (virtual FM) which I think is quite nice. Very easy to program sounds with and will help to understand how FM synthesis works..... I retired my DX7IIfd at least 15 years ago - and moved to new technology. I can't imagine putting any energy into trying to master an antique technology. Obviously, I'm NOT one who gets excited about old synth technology. When I hear guys getting excited about old, long out of production synth gear - especially units that were 2nd/3rd tier gear marketed to meet price points for guys who couldn't afford the "best of breed" gear at the time - I just don't get it. To me, it's about the same as getting wood over an old XT or AT computer. It's just not my thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 I have a near mint DX7-IIFD with E!. Every now and then I get the hankerin' to do FM synth programming, because it's fun. It's not the same as going back to an XT. It's more like going back to an Amiga 1000. That said, the real reason I haven't sold it is because I LOVE the action, and it makes a great unweighted controller for organ. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 144dB Posted January 5, 2015 Members Share Posted January 5, 2015 I use FM7 (the predecessor to FM8), and it's a solid package. What FM does, FM does very well (clear punchy sounds and aggressive textures). It probably finds its way into most of my compositions. If you search YouTube you'll find some good tutorials on FM synthesis. As someone else suggested, I would also encourage using an editor/librarian. Programming on a two-line LCD sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted January 5, 2015 Members Share Posted January 5, 2015 I like the Yamaha SY77 & SY99 & TG77 for DX7 more than the two original models (I have a DX7IIFD with E as well) but these three models have effects and the DX7 is improved and you can also layer the DX7 with sampled sounds....the TG77 is the rack version of the SY77 but has no sequencer or floppy drive (3 rack spaces).... Another important thing about these three models is that the DX7 sounds like sampled sounds......on the two earlier DX7 models, all the sounds have a very obvious DX7 flavor which I find very annoying where the SY77, SY99 & TG77 DX7 sounds so pure without that annoying DX7 flavor in all the sounds.....also, these 3 models have RCM which is an ability to have one type of synth actually modulate the other.....really cool stuff.....I use my TG77 with an Alesis Data Disk and they work great together....these have really nice filters (high pass, low pass, band pass) I think the SY77 & SY99 have the same keys as the DX7IIFD..... Check out F1 especially.....many voice modes.....these models call DX sounds AFM and samples AWM.....Drum sounds can use 61 samples (1 for all 61 keys on the SY77) [h=2]Yamaha SY77 RCM Synthesis[/h] http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/Keyboards/acapella-18/31366605-yamaha-sy77-rcm-synthesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 144dB Posted January 6, 2015 Members Share Posted January 6, 2015 The SY77, SY99, and TG77 were monsters... Much more powerful than the presets suggested, but overshadowed in the market by the unstoppable Korg of the 1990's (and the overall ROMpler movement). The market wasn't interested in more FM. To be honest, if your struggling with the DX7, the SY's aren't going to be any easier (albeit the LCD is a bit larger). Those are DEEP instruments. FM7/FM8 is a monster as well... Lots of waveform choices and plenty of routing flexibility (albeit without the SY's sample-based waveforms). And the user manual was written by our own Craig Anderton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mmmmqac Posted January 10, 2015 Members Share Posted January 10, 2015 Regarding the reluctance to revisit or get excited over 15 year old technology: Isn't it possible that the trends of the time caused a rush toward dazzling, tempting, glittery romplers before all the riches had been dug out of the FM gold-mine? Consider the following analogy: I have many recent albums that I enjoy, but I am regularly surprised by discovering something from the '70s that is pure gold, for example Genesis with Steve Hackett. THINK about that. I had NEVER heard old Genesis until a few years ago. I was into Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Yes and ELP, but the only Genesis I had hear was the trendy stuff on the radio. It felt like I had stumbled upon an abandoned gold mine that had plenty of riches still to un-earth. Those of us who dig into FM today know what the excitement over this 15 y.o. technology is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted January 10, 2015 Members Share Posted January 10, 2015 I agree that older technology can offer a lot, but older sample technology is clearly inferior......with DX sounds, I like to look at those sounds as being made from "thin air" as there are no samples involved in FM......FM can make sounds you'll never find anywhere, but many "real" type instruments made with FM are possibly going to be better with newer sample technology (acoustic piano for example) although the differences between an FM emulation and a sampled sound might give the FM version a sound not found in the sampled sound, which could give it value for being unique......the particular situation would all depend on the sound as to how much value it would have.... One thing about older sample technology is the sounds had a "grittiness" that gave them character....this helped certain types of sounds..... One big advantage of FM is any sound can transform into any other DX sound if the right parameters are changed so FM sounds are infinitely variable when editing where sampled sounds are limited as to how much you can change them......if the DX7 had a programmer like Roland made for the D50, you could just reach out and make much quicker and more complete drastic changes......as an example, FM can take a wood block sound and turn it into a thunderstorm very quickly (I've done it) and that's a pretty drastic change.....if you use a foot controller, you can make these changes with your foot while you play (program the foot controller to be the data entry slider).....pretty cool..... With FM it's difficult to make something that sounds exactly like an instrument that's on a tape or CD.....it's easier to start with a sound that's close and go from there.....if you started making every sound you need from an "initialized" voice, you'd become a much better programmer because you would be forced to learn how to do it (an initialized voice is considered a "blank" sound but it is not silent).......an initialized voice sounds like the beep you used to hear when all the TV stations used to go off the air after the national anthem back in the day.....Billy Joel will help you hear it (listen after the national anthem finishes and that is what an initialized sound is like on a DX synth...the sound of a sine wave): When you initialize a sound, it has very predictable values across the board on all parameters.....you learn what these are after you do it for a while.....operator 1 is the main operator you hear when you initialize a sound.... If you haven't read this yet, I made this to help when programming DX synths: http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/Keyboards/acapella-18/31350443-programming-a-dx7-made-easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 11, 2015 Members Share Posted January 11, 2015 I will agree with you on the DX7-IIFD action - mine was my primary gigging board for many years. The action was pretty damn good. Definitely a step up from the Korg Poly-61 that I had been using prior to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 11, 2015 Members Share Posted January 11, 2015 There's no question that some great music was made with FM synths back in their day. However I think that "the riches being dug out of the FM gold mine" thing is something else altogether. The FM synth is a tool ... nothing more, nothing less. In the hands of right artist/craftsman - old technology can obviously sing. However, give that same artist/craftsman current state of the art tools and I have little doubt that they'll obtain equally impressive results - and likely do it faster and with less effort. There's a reason why craftsmen tend to gravitate towards new tools ... typically they're more capable (additional features, easier to use, etc.). Unless we're talking about electro-mechanical instruments (Rhodes, Wurli's, Hammonds, Mellotrons, etc.) or classic synths that were truly groundbreaking "best of breed" in their day (Mini-Moogs, Prophets, Oberheim, etc.) - I simply don't get the enchantment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 12, 2015 Members Share Posted January 12, 2015 I built a DX7 programmer in 1995 that used motorized faders to behave kind of like drawbars. You're right about the continuous sound! It's very fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted January 12, 2015 Members Share Posted January 12, 2015 That would be cool to be able to access all the parameters at once that way..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 12, 2015 Members Share Posted January 12, 2015 Yep! It could get pretty weird if you changed the algorithm mid-stream, or changed the bottom carrier wave sometimes. The one problem I had was that if you sent too many parameter changes too quickly (like swiping the fader from 0-255 and back in under 0.5s) the DX7 would sometimes miss MIDI messages. Changing the parameters was pretty MIDI-heavy because they That became a slight problem during live performance when "note off" messages got dropped. I had to add a couple of buttons, one was "all notes off" and the other was "get back to a known-good setting". Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted January 12, 2015 Members Share Posted January 12, 2015 The Led Zeppelin "Complete" pdf....$10....but it doesn't have anything from Physical Graffiti or later, so it was complete in 1973..... https://www.tradebit.com/filedetail....music-songbook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moogerfooger Posted January 13, 2015 Members Share Posted January 13, 2015 didnt yamaha release a hardware programmer for the DX7 -- never like that board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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