Members RockPianoman Posted November 16, 2014 Members Share Posted November 16, 2014 One reason I haven't let go of cassette technology is because there are soooooo many albums that were released on cassette that haven't been re-released on CD (cassette versions of albums have been sold since the 60's)...... that's a long time !!!!! You can find them online and at yard sales and garage sales everywhere..... some I've found were new or like new.... Here are some ideas if you want to use those old cassettes or that old tape deck..... first of all the blank tapes that seem to run better than any other are the Sony HF tapes.....I have bought a ton of high quality blanks over the years too, but I've always known that Sony HF's are going to run better than anything else.... I have been buying Sony HF cassettes since the mid-80's and with the exception of a few series that were released, they are the smoothest running cassettes. Period. I didn't say the highest quality recording tape (although they do a good job, the recording tape is typical entry level normal bias tape....bottom of the line recording tape) but they have the best mechanism ever devised..... you can still get very good recordings on them considering.... a cassette deck is going to record them much better than a boombox.....boomboxes will give you a finished tape that is lower quality both in frequency response and the amount of tape hiss you end up with and also possibly higher wow & flutter (although some do better than others)..... What really separates the Sony HF's from the rest are the liner sheets......they are perfect.....the liner sheets keep them stacked really good and they don't seem to ever get tight and with cassettes, that is the most important thing.....those liner sheets are super slippery so the tape doesn't bind.... When I learn songs on piano from tapes, it's rewind, play, rewind, play continuously and they never seem to get tight even doing this. Almost every other cassette will fail when it is being used like this. Another thing is if your cassette deck has the tape standing on edge and not laying down, the tape tends to have even worse problems.....I made a box for my Sony dual cassette so the front faces up and a plexi-glass lid that closes to keep it clean and all tapes perform better laying down as gravity helps to keep them stacked much better......when tapes play or record standing up, there is a lot of wobble in the two spools and this can cause warbled recordings and playback, especially at the beginning of each side....this has always been a weakness of cassettes compared to reel to reel tapes....cassettes are way more convenient than reel to reel tapes, but the system has always had its' weaknesses..... Another fault of standard cassettes compared to videocassettes, is videocassettes have a guard that covers the tape when it's removed from the player so the tape cannot be touched.....touching the recording tape on any kind of tape will permanently damage it in that spot causing drop-outs.....touching the tape can also cause crap to get on the heads, capstans and rollers of your players which can continue to damage your other tapes.... I make a habit of ALWAYS rewinding my tapes before removing them from any player....it's just not worth it holding your spot and not rewinding them as they can be so easily damaged when the recording tape is exposed..... Keep tapes away from any type of magnetic field !!!!! Power supplies (wall warts) TV's, speakers, headphones, microphones.....anything that has magnets or a magnetic field in it as this can damage the recording on your tape. This also applies to floppy disks, 8 track tapes, reel to reel tapes and micro-cassettes as well as the different types of videocassettes and DAT tapes..... Keeping them in their case is super important too because when they start getting dirty, they don't work as good......keep cassettes in as dry of a place as possible......super wet environments can kill tapes as it can make them shed (shedding is when the oxide comes off the plastic tape)....when tapes shed, you're lucky if you can even get a good copy on to another as the oxide makes them work and it is literally falling off)......the best place you can keep your tapes is in a Tupperware with an air-tight lid.... Also, avoid allowing them to get overheated either by direct sunlight or by high temperature.....they can't handle this and tapes can be damaged so badly by this sometimes, even if you re-record them, they never play or run right again (cassette tape is very thin).... Clean your heads, rollers and capstans often and demagnetize your heads and metal parts on your tape decks regularly too (a capstan is the metal pin that the roller presses against).... This is my favorite type of cleaner for my decks (several companies make this type), especially for car decks where it's hard to get to the parts and electronic tape decks where the rollers won't spin with the tape deck door open.....this type cleans rollers, heads and capstans.....wet the felt parts with the cleaning fluid and replace the whole cleaner when the felt starts looking too dirty...make sure to clean in both directions on auto-reverse decks: http://smile.amazon.com/jWIN-JC-15-A...U0/ref=sr_1_12 ie=UTF8&qid=1416127652&sr=8-12&keywords=cassette+head+cleaner Original pre-recorded cassettes don't seem to last well, so copy them on to a reliable blank (like a Sony HF) and put them away in a safe place (a couple copies or more is a good idea on important tapes or a tape that cannot be replaced)......copy them off with a decent dual cassette (I like the Sony TC-WE475 which you can find used online) and use normal speed dubbing with the Dolby off for best results. The Sony TC-WE475 has music search that can search up to 30 songs away in forward or rewind directions, auto-reverse and Dolby B & C (the music search needs 2 - 3 seconds of blank between songs to detect it)....I like to use Dolby B to record from external sources (not when using tape to tape dubbing) and when I play the tapes back, I turn the Dolby off. The Sony TC-WE475 even has adjustable speed playback on the left deck (playback only) which is nice to fine tune tapes that may be too fast or too slow or when tuning to a musical instrument. Record levels should never peak out (the top LED marker) as this can possibly cause distortion on the finished tape. Each deck on that tape deck has it's own motor and transport mechanism and you can rewind and fast forward tapes on whichever deck isn't playing without affecting the playback of the other. The Sony TC-WE435 is almost identical as far as ability and functions and quality but it's a little bit older. Whenever I record a tape, I fast forward it to the end and rewind it to the beginning 3 times.....this insures that the tape will run as smoothly as possible when recording. Write down on a small piece of paper what the tape counter says as far as length for a 120 minute, 90 minute and a 60 minute tape so you can get a good guess how long a tape is that you want to record (these two tape decks don't have a real time tape counter.....you don't usually get one of those unless you have a more expensive deck). It doesn't hurt to have blank tape after an album ends......just fast forward past it and flip the tape. It is always better to fast forward past the blank rather than flipping it and rewinding it because anytime a tape is out of the player and it isn't rewound, you take a chance of accidentally touching the recording tape which permanently damages it. Those tape decks also have "Memory" for both decks which allows you to reset the tape counter at any point in the tape and when Memory is turned on, the tape deck will automatically stop at 0000 (while rewinding only....fast forward doesn't work with the Memory function). There is a 3 position switch that allows you to select the play mode:1: Play one side and shut off.2: Play both sides of one tape over and over.3: Relay: It plays both sides of Tape A and then both sides of Tape B and does this over and over. If you set it to Relay and only put in one tape, it will play both sides and shut off. The remote for those tape decks is a Sony RM-J910 and is always sold separately but I highly recommend getting it (you'll be glad to have it). The remote can control everything except setting the record level and setting up tape to tape dubbing. It can control both decks separately and it can even control basic functions on a Sony CD player. The only tape deck Sony currently makes is in a boombox with a CD player and a line in jack and an AM/FM radio but it doesn't have any features to speak of other than shutting itself off after playing or recording (you can record from a CD or the radio or the line in jack with it, but only with automatic level control): http://smile.amazon.com/Sony-Cassett...416136312&sr=8 4&keywords=Sony+cassette+boombox I have cassettes from the early 80's that still run great and sound great which goes to show how long they can last if you take good care of them....Also, as I've said, all the albums that were released on cassette that have never been released on CD are very clear and I'd much rather deal with cassettes than vinyl..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted November 16, 2014 Members Share Posted November 16, 2014 If the Sonys are openable, the tape is easily replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 16, 2014 Members Share Posted November 16, 2014 I get wanting to preserve old cassettes of music never released on CD (although personally I prefer the LP versions) but why copy them to new cassettes? So much easier and longer-lasting to put them on your computer and/or burn the to CD isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2014 I have a Sony CD recorder that I use to convert cassettes to CD, but for someone reading this article, backing them up to cassette is an affordable alternative....I convert the CD's from the Sony CD recorder to a wave file and use Nero wave editor to split songs and the split points are invisible if I burn with Nero.... If you are setup to convert them to CD, that of course is better.....I still wonder how long CD's and DVD's will last......not enough time has passed to be sure.....audio CDs and DVDs seem to last (so far) but I have had a lot of data CD's go bad but I'm still leery about how long any discs will actually last.... Another thing that makes me not want to recommend converting to discs is because how badly some burners work......if they aren't burnt well, the discs really are at a huge disadvantage from the start.... What sits in the back of my mind is if I tell people to trust discs and then the discs end up going bad....that would suck to have people do what I said and have it turn out so badly.. I know cassettes last.....cassettes I made in the early 80's still work perfectly and run great (that's over 40 years !!!) 1001gear - The new Sony cassettes would have to be broken open as they have no screws......Maxells are easy to find and they still use screws although a lot of the new Maxell tapes run poorly compared to older Maxells and they can't even begin to compare to how good Sony HF's run.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 16, 2014 Members Share Posted November 16, 2014 Converting to cassette could be a fun hobby for one enamored with the format, but I disagree that it possesses ANY advantages. It isn't really an affordable alternative as blank CDs cost next to nothing, and once you've got the music on your hard drive you can make as many backup and safety copies as you desire in just a few minutes. And a good cassette recorder would cost some $$ and likely need to be repaired to be brought to usable condition. Virtually everyone already has a really good CD burner and software in their comp already. No need to buy anything new or better. What if you tell people to trust cassettes and their player ends up eating the tape? I've lost far more tapes over the years than CDs. And if one fails, you just burn another one. Takes 2 minutes and a few pennies. Also cassettes DONT hold up well overtime. I've transferred many old cassettes to computer and virtually all are plagued with dropouts and loss of fidelity. Not to mention that pre recorded cassettes were never very good. I always hated them. Back in the day, I'd buy LPs and make my own cassette copies to play in my car because they sounded much better than the crap sold commercially. People complain about the sound quality of MP3 downloads? They are virtually all far better than commercial tapes ever were. . Not to put down your post---you offer great info for someone who would want to do that. You just might be the only person out there who would! I think your nostalgic relationship with cassette tape is cool, but in all honesty, that's all it is. It's really not a viable backup format. Espcially for anything one might consider to be rare or important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 17, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 If discs DO last, it's a far superior way to go......and even though I don't have as much time determining if they will last, these are the facts I've noticed: Data CDs go bad......no doubt about it but I've never had a single DVD that was burnt properly go bad YET and I've never had a single audio CD go bad YET.....I have audio CDs that go back to 1998 (dates are burnt on all discs) and I have DVDs I have burnt go back to about 2007 Maybe going both ways would be the best bet....then if one fails...... Sony HF's I've made using my Sony dual cassette from my original cassettes have been totally reliable.....they STILL run just like new.....playing them side by side with my original cassettes, you can't even hardly hear any difference....when I backup my CDs on to Sony HF's, they sound even better The bad thing about discs of course is if they do go bad eventually, they probably all will no matter how many copies you make Hard drives, even SSD hard drives seem way more risky than either discs or tapes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tapes will go bad eventually too. I've got CDs that date back to the mid 80s that still play just fine. I don't have any cassettes from that era that don't have some issues. The only way to keep cassettes forever would be to make a new copy every decade or so. But then you'd have the problem with losing fidelity with subsequent generations and you could do the same thing with CDs with no loss. The only way to be safe with anything is to have backups and safety copies. That goes for whether your stuff is on tape, disc or harddrive or in the cloud. Backup backup backup. BTW...what the heck music from the 80s are you listening to that didn't make it CD eventually? I can think of very little that wasn't released on CD at some point or another. and vinyl lasts forever... 😍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 17, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 What has really made me distrust discs is the amount that I have that have gone bad Another thing about discs, is even with the best discs and burners and burning software, they have errors and not just a few.....they have an astounding amount of errors and copies made from them have that many more....error correction hides this fact but it still doesn't fix the errors I have gone both ways to backup my stuff......I wanted people to know basics on tapes in case they wanted to use it as an additional medium to archive their music on......the tape decks I mentioned have never eaten a single tape of mine and I've been using them for years....they aren't high end tape decks but with the exception of blank skip, Dolby S and a real time tape counter, they have the best features available.....those tape decks used on Ebay run as low as $40 - $60 including shipping....the remote is about $25 - $30 usually....even if the tape deck ever dies and needs to be replaced, the remote will probably last forever.... I've bought other models of Sony tape decks and won't anymore as they had issues....those two tape decks have never had a single issue......all tape decks die eventually after they get used a lot....that's not an issue....that's life.....I've had mine for years and the ones before them lasted a long time too.....if someone bought a Square Trade warranty on them (they insure about anything you buy on Ebay) then you will have the deck replaced when it dies......I don't buy the Square Trade warranties because they last longer than the warranties although you always run the risk of buying a worn out tape deck.....it happens....open a case on Ebay before 45 days from the date you bought it and Ebay covers you 100%.....don't let Ebay talk you into waiting longer or you're screwed.....naturally that would save them money if it came down to it.... The belts on those tape decks are big and beefy and they last.....I've looked inside other Sony tape decks and have seen tiny belts on those that could never last as long..... I've never liked or used Dolby C as it changes the music and makes it sound weird.....Dolby S is the best but it isn't available on those two decks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 A while back I came across a bunch of old cassettes of original music I had recorded with bands in the 80s. Most had almost never been played -- some not at all -- and all had been reasonably well cared for. Virtually all had sound issues. Dropouts and other problems. In some cases I had mulitple copies of the same tracks and was able to cobble together better versions on my computer. But none were as good as they originally were. Sad, but I was glad to have any of it at all. I only wish I had found it a decade or so earlier. And glad I found it before it all completely turned to dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 17, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tapes are another way to backup important stuff.....I take exceptional care of my tapes... I've backed up all my music to both.....I've opened "new" tapes that had never been opened and listened with headphones and they had zero issues which shows that they do hold music well..... My wife has many, many pre-recorded cassettes she bought new in the 80's and they all sound like brand new....even her recorded discs sound great and so do mine..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tape oxidizes over time and particles begin to flake off. Even tape kept in temperature controlled vaults eventually deteriorate. Some great and classic music recorded to tape in the 50s and 60s were seriously damaged and even lost. Thankfully digital technology came along when it did so that so much can be preserved in pristine quality forever. the fact that you don't want to listen to a lot of tapes through headphones shows that you understand how poor of a medium it can be, and it's horrible for backing up anything important. Each generation loses fidelity and tape hiss increases. Cassette were never intended to be anything more than a cheap, portable medium. what I dont understand is why youve had such a high failure rate with CDs and hard drives? but it's all good. I'm glad you enjoy tapes. My memories of them are fond too. I still am sentimentally attached to my old Aiwa deck. It needs new belts though. But this really isn't a discussion for a keyboard forum anyway. Party on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 17, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 My tapes, even my old tapes work fine.....CD's are better but cassettes give me a great backup copy that will also play in the cars If all my discs do start turning to crap, I'll be glad to have the tapes.....I remember the high prices they used to charge for tapes and none ran as good as a Sony HF and my copies from original tapes on to Sony HF's sound the same as the original tape.....made from CD's they sound even better I'll continue to backup all my CD's and original pre-recorded cassettes to both tape and CD.....it also makes it easier to have copies in more places I have never had any of my tapes shed or get eaten, but I don't play my tapes on other people's players either.....I wouldn't recommend anybody using other people's tape decks.....even if they don't eat tapes, the heads, rollers and capstans might not be clean like mine which would damage the tapes.... There are zillions of very old tapes being sold on Ebay right now with quality guarantees or your money back.......if old tapes turned to crap they couldn't do that..... If you can find some type of Tupperware type containers the right height with an airtight lid, put your tapes in these.....number them and make a document in alphabetical order listing groups and albums followed by tape numbers.....each case could list tape numbers in the case on the outside with a label..... If you store them in a basement, you still need to run a dehumidifier......under these conditions I believe they can last possibly indefinitely.....I've known other people who told me how their tapes turned to crap but they didn't take any precautions to prevent it......tapes need extra care like this I haven't went to this extreme with my tapes and they all work fine but I'm going to start storing mine like this so they last....I've never had a single tape "go bad" ever and some are over 40 years old.....I do run a dehumidifier in the basement though..... There are tapes much older than 40 years old being sold as we speak, constantly on Ebay and original pre-recorded tapes are much lower quality than name brand blank tapes.....these tapes are also being sold with an unconditional money back guarantee.... How they have been stored seems to make all the difference......like the Traveling Wilburys said, "Cool, Dry Place" and airtight storage is way better than that......the cardboard index cards help too by absorbing moisture in the case... I think backing up your music as audio CD's and on DVD's is also very important (Nero lets you make image files of audio CD's that you can store on DVD).... Even though blank tape isn't being sold at stores anymore except bottom of the line normal bias tapes, you can get higher quality blank tape on Ebay if you want to.....I like TDK SA90's and Maxell XLII 90's.....they are much more quiet with much more sparkle than normal bias tape....(you could use that type to backup one of a kind or out of print music)..... I want to be clear that I'm not promoting pirating....I'm just trying to give you another alternative to use to back up music you have already bought....it's legal to backup music you have bought....if you put all your faith in discs and they do eventually turn to crap, you would appreciate the tapes very much....any computer tech will tell you DVD's will outlast hard drives.....SSD (Solid State Drives) are looked at as being the best hard drives but actually may be the worst....if the power supply fails in them, everything's gone.....at least with a regular hard drive you can put them in an external enclosure and rescue what you can..... Even if you do everything correctly with tapes as far as storage and handling, if the capstan, heads and rollers aren't clean, they can damage your tapes.....make sure not to even touch a tape's leader tape because anything on your fingers (oils, sweat, what you had for lunch) will be directly transferred to the capstans, tape guides, rollers and heads and anything else the tape comes in contact with including the inside of the cassette's housing (YUCK !!!) and this will get smeared on every tape you play until it gets cleaned off....your best bet is to not let other people handle your tapes at all......most people think they know how to handle them but they can cause a huge amount of problems for you because they really don't...... I haven't tried to store to blank Blu-Rays because they are so expensive so I can't give an opinion there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think you and I have different definitions of "quality" and "backup". I would never back anything I value to cassette because there is an immediate degradation of the sound quality that increases with each succeeding generation. You don't have that with digital. Each generation sounds exactly the same as the last. And all the steps necessary to make sure a cassette sounds as good as possible and lasts as long as possible? I could have made dozens of digital copies to various media just in the time it took me to read your instructions! . Yes, professionals warn of the limitions of digital media. But none of them are making safety copies on cassette! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Some of the studios have been seeing problems with ancient 1" tape delaminating and sticking together. If this can happen to 1", it can definitely happen to consumer audio tape. Can you still BUY decent cassettes? Last I looked, I could only find Type I (Fe2O3) tapes. I prefer type III (metal) but type II (CrO2) will do and is what the commercial cassettes are made from. It is not uncommon to have burned CD-Rs go bad after time. This is because, unlike commercially pressed discs, the reflective holes are made by burning holes in the dye built into the medium. If the dye fades, there are no more holes in it. Even expensive "archival quality" CD-Rs are really not suited to storing hyper-important data. Large institutions are still using magnetic tape for that..but not magnetic audio tape! If you REALLY want to preserve your data, you should be storing your audio in a digital tape medium....DAT would be a good choice. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Can you still BUY decent cassettes? Last I looked, I could only find Type I (Fe2O3) tapes. I prefer type III (metal) but type II (CrO2) will do and is what the commercial cassettes are made from. The only real use they have anymore is for people that still have old-style answering and dictation machines that use them, so normal bias is what is available. I see you can still buy type II blanks on Amazon and Ebay and such, but I have no idea how long ago those were manufactured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 I haven't tried to store to blank Blu-Rays because they are so expensive so I can't give an opinion there..... Blank Blu-Rays can be had for under $1 a piece all day long. You're not going to find decent blank cassette tapes for any less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 But isn't DAT the same as videotape basically which is magnetic also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 The purpose of this post is to help people that have cassettes and cassette decks, and because cassette decks are needed to convert vintage cassettes to digital.....a mind boggling amount of pre-recorded cassettes have been released since the 60's and it's absolutely crazy to say that they have all been converted to CD......there are tons that were only released on cassette and vinyl (and maybe 8 track and reel to reel)....I would much rather convert tape to digital because vinyl is so noisy and can have skips.....cassettes have some noise too but not turntable rumble, and pops and other noise associated with vinyl...... Some people claim that cassettes are an invalid way to archive but I have tons, many over 40 years old, that still play and run fine......if tapes are not stored properly and kept clean, you can expect problems.... I think that the more formats something is archived in, the better....especially things that are out of print and impossible to replace...... To me, the most important use for cassette decks is being able to digitize music that isn't available on CD.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 But isn't DAT the same as videotape basically which is magnetic also? DAT suffers from the same risk of dropouts as does analog tape. Sony stopped making recorders years ago. I doubt anyone else does either. Plus the blanks weren't ever cheap. I know it's not as romantic, but just copy your cassette collection to your comp and backup up a few copies of the entire collection to a couple of thumb drives and be done with it already. It's easier, with bit-for-bit sound quality, safer and affordable. Plus computers that are able to play USB flash drives and whatever format you store the data in aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And pretty much any car built in the last decade will play it as well. . That's if you're actually serious about backing up music of importance to you. If it's just a romantic thing, then I've got a stack of 8-track tapes and a couple of blanks you might be interested in as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 Comparing 8 tracks to cassettes is like comparing apples to oranges.....I never liked or ever bought a single 8 track (my brothers had some).... 8 tracks liked to split songs in the middle in an effort to get 4 tracks of equal length (4 stereo tracks = 8 tracks).....there's also foil on the tape that runs across a sensor and changes tracks once per pass of the entire length of tape and when the foil wears off they no longer change tracks automatically.....Radio Shack used to sell replacement foil you could stick on but I doubt they do anymore.... 8 tracks are an endless loop of recording tape......the tape comes out of the middle of the spool and drags across the spool of tape to exit the housing to be played which causes the tape to literally wear itself out on itself.....after it's played it wraps around the outside of the spool....since the spool has to shrink to adjust to the tape coming out of the middle it also wears on itself in that way....a really crappy design overall..... I know a lot of people bought them but I wasn't one of them.... 8 tracks and reel to reel tapes have the same width tape which is twice as wide as cassette tape which makes sense since cassettes are 4 tracks....the two tracks on 8 track tape heads (the left and right) are not side by side like on cassette heads.....the left and right tracks on an 8 track tape head are actually as far apart as they can be....the head jumps to 4 different positions on an 8 track player as it plays giving you the 4 stereo tracks....the tape never stops moving as it jumps.....some 8 track players have fast forward but never rewind......they can only run in one direction....there are also adapters that slide into the 8 track player that play cassettes (no rewind on that cassette player ever either).... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-REAL...item20efb3d1ae 8 tracks had the pinch roller built into every tape (the player didn't have a pinch roller...only a capstan)....there's a notch in the side of the 8 track cartridge where a spring loaded roller would go in to hold the tape in tightly in the player.....it also made sure the pinch roller pressed tightly against the capstan....(I have a lot of useless information like this in my head.....I used to take everything apart to see how it worked and put it back together and nobody ever found out I had done it)...... 8 tracks play at 3 3/4 inches per second where cassettes play at 1 7/8 inches per second. Multi-track reel to reel recorders in recording studios used to vary from 7 1/2 to 30 inches per second on speed. As far as all the cassettes that never made it to become CD's, probably at this point in the game, they never will so getting them on tape or vinyl is about your only chance of getting them at all..... I'll probably eventually buy a turntable again in case an album I want to digitize is only available on vinyl and not cassette...if you really wash vinyl well, using a super soft brush with super fine bristles, you can clean them up very well.....I should research the software that is currently available for copying vinyl to CD as I hear it can remove a lot of noise and rumble and pops.... I want to buy a turntable with all 4 speeds so I can digitize anything (16, 33⅓, 45, 78 rpm's) Probably the only turntable with all 4 speeds is used one on Ebay.....a direct drive turntable would have no belts that ever need replacing.....there are direct drive cassette decks too that would be perfect for digitizing tapes or vinyl....recordings I make from tapes into my Sony CD recorder are remarkable.....the finished CD sounds even better than the tape (I know it doesn't sound possible but it picks up everything).....I always check if something is available on CD before I buy the cassette.....if it is, I don't buy the cassette, I buy the CD..... The CD's I have to use in my Sony CD recorder are "Music" CD's so I buy TDK Music CD-RW's and I've never had to replace them.....I use them over and over.....I convert the CD-RW to a wave file on my computer and use the Nero wave editor to insert split points and get a nice beginning and end.....then I burn the CD with Nero and the split points are invisible....even when there is no blank between songs....when I burn it, I insert CD text.... My Sony CD Recorder is a RCD-W500C.....it displays CD text http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=Sony+RCD-W500C&_sop=16 The frequency response of vinyl stomps CDs into the dirt, so digitizing them means you will still never capture the original quality if your speakers can produce the frequencies vinyl can produce (speakers have come a long way over the years)......people try to say that if a frequency range is more than our ears can hear, then it's wasted but this isn't true....you can "feel" music's frequencies through your whole body with the right speakers....the "Bonefone" is a system that drapes over your shoulders and lets you hear music through your skeletal system which shows you can use more than your ears to hear music.... Audio frequency range of LP vs. CD The Bonefone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 That's nonsense. The frequency range of vinyl does not exceed CDs in the hearing range and the low end capabilities of vinyl is crap. Ever hear of the RIAA curve? And I don't really the buy the "Feel the frequencies above 20K stuff". But even if true, you make an even worse case for cassette tape. type II tapes top out at about 17K at the top end. If you buy a turntable that plays at 78, make sure you have a wider, ceramic needle for playing 78s, otherwise you'll destroy those old shellac records. Working with old 78s and converting them properly is practically an art form unto itself. 16RPM was never used to anything but speech records. Having all 4 speeds might be nice but hardly essential unless you really want to get into collecting old 78s. In which case, I'd recommend a dedicated turntable for that. my comparison to 8track was just to underscore the romantic element of your passion for cassettes. Both are a crap medium for serious archival or backup purposes. And I think you way overstate the amount of albums never released on CD. Especially if your tastes are from the pop eras of the 60s-80s. Do you really have a large collection of such? You must have some very esoteric tastes in music if so. (Which is cool, of course). And in all such cases vinyl is vastly superior to cassette. And decent turntables made specifically to hook up to computer via USB are easily and cheaply available these days. Although I much prefer my older gear in that regard. But certainly any of the cheap USB turntables available today would be better than old cassette tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 I do like some super old music (especially ragtime) and old jazz depending on what it is.....I absolutely hate turntable noise if I can possibly get it from cassette Thank you for the information on turntables and the needles for them.....I plan on getting one or two You'd be surprised how much music never made it to CD......especially black performers of both styles I mentioned....one group I really like is the Southland Stingers (ragtime) and even though a little of their stuff has trickled over to CD, most is just cassette and vinyl (and they aren't that old !!)...I love the way they interpret Scott Joplin....so much personality.... Southland Stingers cassettes are nearly impossible to find but they surface from time to time......the library used to have them on cassette when I was a kid.... This is an example of how they do Scott Joplin: I have the broadest taste in music of anyone you will probably ever meet......old jazz & ragtime to thrash metal.....I just don't do gospel music of any type....I'm open to music from any period if it has the personality that I like....I don't like country either...country rock like Eagles is cool but I hate sobby tear in your beer and twangy country.....most country actually is not for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 When converting LPs to digital I use a program called "Click Repair". It amazing at how well it removes the annoying clicks and pops without degrading the sound quality of the music. As far as things like the general surface noise of LPs....well, you have to be working with a good, clean record to begin with. I've always taken good care of my LPs --- back in the day I'd convert them to cassette to play in the car and put the LP away. Most were never played more than one or two times --- and I don't buy any used vinyl that isn't in really good condition. But I've always--then and now--found the noise of LPs to be FAR preferable to tape hiss. And that combined with the poor frequency response of pre-recorded cassettes always made LPs the clear winner for me. As I said at the outset, I never wasted my money on pre-recorded cassettes back in the day. Outside of a few audiophile cassettes made by the likes of MFSL, they all sounded like crap. Some horrendously so. I can remember being aghast that they even had the balls to release and sell some of that stuff. Of course, it was really only meant for kids who wanted to play stuff on boom boxes and in cars anyway. So the customers didn't much care what it sounded like. But I can only imagine how bad they would sound today. Again, I think it's cool you like to mess with them. I just can't emphasize enough what a poor choice they would be for archiving anything, so I think that recommendation needed to be challenged in case anyone who didn't know any better might think it was good advice, which is why I did so. Nothing personal or anything, of course. You might just not be looking hard enough for CDs of some stuff. There was a huge push to reissue just about everything (it seemed) ever released in the late 90s/early 00s. I've been surprised many times to find that albums I thought were never released on CD actually were. Even if for only a short time, in many cases. Although sometimes finding a used copy of those barely-issued CDs can be quite expensive. In those cases I've usually just decided to stick with my LP. FWIW, I put all my CDs and a good number of the LPs I have that I never bothered to buy CD copies of, onto my computer a few years ago. And my cassettes of original music that never existed in any other format (other than the open reel masters that I don't possess.) I have the entire collection saved as 192kbps MP3s on a 160GB iPod that I can play in my car or anywhere else and I also have them backed up to USB drive. That makes 3 digital copies of everything plus the original discs. It was all a very affordable and easy means of backup without having to go to any great lengths to calibrate anything, purchase tons of blank tapes or CDs, and I can easily access any album or song quickly and easily play it in any of my cars or home systems. And if I need to burn a CD of something I can do that in a minute or two as well. And the sound quality is identical (to my ear, anyway) to my original copies. If that isn't enough "safety", then certainly putting everything onto cassette isn't going to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockPianoman Posted November 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 In closing on this subject, my experience with cassettes has been awesome and much different than yours I guess.....I have tapes that I've played all the time for years and they just keep going and going just like the Energizer bunny....I admit that discs are better but my tapes are still playing great, and some are older than 40 years old so they do seem like a valid storage medium to use in addition to discs....I take exceptional care of them and keep my players super clean in every way and they just don't quit.... I've copied pre-recorded tapes on to good blanks that rival CD quality....you really don't hear noise unless you crank them, at least not with my stereo....I've run into some pre-recorded tapes that are noisy but most sound really good on my system and the copies do too......if I said anything else, I'd be lying I definitely back everything up to CD, DVD and tapes and it works for me....I make Nero images of all my CD's and burn those to DVD....I add CD text to all my CD images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 I had a great history with cassettes too back when they were the state of the art. They have just been so far surpassed by other technologies for everything you talk about doing with them today. Better for archive and backup in every conceivable way: cost, convenience, sound quality, longevity. It isn't even close. YMMV, and apparently does, because things like "you don't really hear noise unless you crank them up" isn't even an option for me. Not when other, better options are easier and cheaper. It isn't even a debate, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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