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  • yes, this mirror idea is great. I can imagine that if both audio-files are the same it should be possible, in theory. both programs, Live and ProTools are doing their edits non-distructive. so this is a future idea!

    David, you probably slave Live to ProTools, but if you could slave ProTools to Live you could simply record the audio stream of ProTools in a clip or track. This is what I do most of the time using VSTi's: I simply record them as audio-clips in Live while the track is playing. Works super fast! No offline exporting,rendering, with Live you can do it on the fly.
    Regards,

    Marco Raaphorst
    http://melodiefabriek.nl

    Comment


    • I have gone thru the example for justifying beats with elastic audio and I am stumped. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Here's what I do.
      I created a chapman stick line in 6/8 time for two bars. I selected the 6/8 time signature in the clip display section and my quantization to 1/32 and push the warp button. What I get is that the bars line up with my notes but only one bar's worth of timing shows up in the clip display window. I try to pull two bars worth of lines so that the beats line up perfectly but then the BPMs are doubled. I am baffled. I tried 'warp from here (set to 100BPM) but that doesn't work either. I tried editing the waveform in Soundforge and it plays perfectly as a loop. It doesn't matter what loop I call up same problem. I just say @#$% it and go with what the program sets it to but it makes me feel dirty : ) If I have two bars I figure I should have two bars worth of elastic bars but I don't. Please help!
      Aspire to Inspire before you Expire

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gigabetz
        I have gone thru the example for justifying beats with elastic audio and I am stumped. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Here's what I do.
        I created a chapman stick line in 6/8 time for two bars. I selected the 6/8 time signature in the clip display section and my quantization to 1/32 and push the warp button. What I get is that the bars line up with my notes but only one bar's worth of timing shows up in the clip display window. I try to pull two bars worth of lines so that the beats line up perfectly but then the BPMs are doubled. I am baffled. I tried 'warp from here (set to 100BPM) but that doesn't work either. I tried editing the waveform in Soundforge and it plays perfectly as a loop. It doesn't matter what loop I call up same problem. I just say @#$% it and go with what the program sets it to but it makes me feel dirty : ) If I have two bars I figure I should have two bars worth of elastic bars but I don't. Please help!



        Hi Giga,

        It is definitely advisable to have a two bar loop marked as such in Live. You are certainly right here! Here are a couple of my best hints:

        • Next time . . . '' Record the loop along with the click track so that you are already in 6 / 8 time. Live will cut the loop for you and save you all this work.

        • If the loop or audio recording has already been recorded and you are importing it into Live, play the clip once or twice without being warped (deselect warp) and then tap the tempo into Live (via the tap tempo button). This will get you close to your loops original tempo and make the figuring easier. Once you’ve got a tempo that makes sense, turn warping on again and make sure the Orig. Tempo is near your tapped tempo. You may have to enter this value in manually. For your two bar loop example, you should have 1.1.1 to 3.1.1 marked as the loop region.

        • Live 5 features Auto-Warp and as Craig mentioned works quite well however I find that it helps if you know a little about your audio. ½ time and double time buttons can be found in the clip settings and are great for adjustments similar to what you mention. Note the 6/8 tempo in the clip view functions only as a visual reference so you might need to adjust it to 12/8 or 3/8 for your own visual aid.

        I’ve attached a clip of a loop and made it constrain to 2 bars of 6/8 to show you an example. Also, one last thought: I think 1/32 transient detection is too much for most things unless you are playing really fast on that Chapman Stick!

        Let me know how this goes . . . and if this was helpful.

        All my best,
        Dave
        Dave Hill Jr.
        Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

        Ableton AG
        dave@ableton.com
        www.ableton.com

        Check out Live 5!
        Create. Produce. Perform.

        Comment


        • Dave, you answered my questions perfectly and you hit the nail on the head.
          I was importing files into Ableton and it figures the first song I was attempting had to have multiple time signatures running at the same time. I never thought of using the tap button but I will definately use that next time. Also, I needed to know that the time signature is a suggestion and a guidline not necessarily factual or idylic. I have another question, I am a newbie but count on me for finding quirks. Ableton is cool because it is so logical and works the way a musician thinks. Am I imagining things? I noticed that the warp editor behaves differently in Arrangement View than it does in Session View. Thanks Dave javascript:smilie('')
          cool
          Aspire to Inspire before you Expire

          Comment


          • I'd also like to give some public props to Dave for his participation in this thread...above and beyond the call of duty!

            I hope Live 5 is a huge success for you. And as a way to say "thanks," please feel free to use this forum as a sounding board. For example, you can post polls. If you're debating about whether or not to include a particular feature or how to handle implementing that feature, you won't find a better group of people to ask.

            Thanks again Dave, and please pass my regards along to the hard-working people at Ableton. I know the program is very close to their hearts.
            N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

            Subscribe, like, and share the links!

            Comment


            • Thanks Craig! No problem at all.

              As for Giga's second question, can you explain what you're trying to do exactly or noticing in terms of behavior?

              I'm not sure what you mean. There should be no difference in the way that warp markers behave in Session or Arrangement Views. A clip is a clip in other words . . . but hey, maybe I missed something.

              Cheers,
              Dave
              Dave Hill Jr.
              Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

              Ableton AG
              dave@ableton.com
              www.ableton.com

              Check out Live 5!
              Create. Produce. Perform.

              Comment


              • HI I WANT A PROGRAM THAT HANDLES LOOPS ALMOST AS EASY AS ACID DOES, BUT THAT IS MORE STABLE AND THAT THE AUDIO FIDELITY IS BETTER!

                I WANT TO KNOW THAT WITH LIVE 5 ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE DIFFERENT WINDOWS TO USE IT WITH 2 MONITORS?

                HOW GOOD IS THE MIDI?

                ALLOWS YOU TO DETERMINE HOW MANY OUTPUTS YOU CAN HAVE FROM VSTIs THAT HAVE MULTIPLE OUTPUTS AS BATTERY? CAN I REDUCE THEM TO 2 O 4 OUTPUTS?

                HOW GOOD IS TO MIX ON LIVE5, HAVE FEATURES AS BUSSES, INSERTS, PRE, POST?

                HOW GOOD IS USING VSTiS AND OTHER PLUG INS?
                ACCEPT AUTOMATIONS TO OTHERS PLUG INS O VSTiS?
                .
                ANY OTHER PROGRAM THAT YOU RECCOMEND MAYBE?

                THANKS!!

                REUVEN AMIEL
                Reuven Amiel.

                The Avenue of Sound.
                Record Producer/Songwriter.
                Miami, FL.

                "There are no rules, just knowledge and experimentation"

                Comment


                • I just recently upgraded to Live 5.

                  I was wondering...can you control third party soft synths/plug-ins with a controller like you can the native synths/plugs?

                  I scanned through the 'help' files but couldn't find anything. Of course, I am a little blonde...so it could very well be there.

                  Thanks,

                  Myshell
                  Myshell Nukina
                  http://www.nukina.ca
                  http://www.djmyshell.com

                  Comment


                  • Same with Acid. When vs. 4 came out with MIDI and VSTi support it almost killed the product. I never heard so many complaints about a bad implimentation of a new feature. Maybe they got it right with 5 but I am almost afraid to look.
                    ]

                    WELL I AM MOVING FROM ACID 5!!

                    TOO MANY BUGS, POOR AND UNSUFUL MIDI, TOO MANY CRASHES, NOT STABLE AT ALL.......U NEED TOO MUCH POWER AND IS ALSO NOT A GOOD DAW.....CAN BE ONLY GREAT FOR USING LOOPS

                    I AM THINKING TO MOVE TO ABLETON LIVE 5
                    USE PROTOOLS FOR MIXING O REWIRE LIVE 5/REASON TO PROTOOLS......
                    ANYWAY I THINK LIVE 5 CAN BE GREAT FOR MIXING AND USING IT AS A GREAT DAW TOO.
                    BUT I WANT A PROGRAM WHEN I CAN BE FOCUSED IN MAKING MUSIC, HAVING GREAT TOOLS AND FEATURES FOR THAT!!
                    AND NOT WORRY ABOUT CRASHES AS HAPPEN WITH ACID PRO 5.
                    I NED A PROGRAM TOMAKE ARRAGEMENTS AND MUSIC , BUT IS AFAIRLY GOOD DAW TOO!!

                    WHAT DO U THINK?

                    I THINK SONAR PRETENDED TO BE A MIX OF PROTOOLS AND ACID...BUT THE WORKFLOW IS NOT VERY SIMPLE!! IS SOMETIMES ANOYING THAT FOR DOING SIMPLE APPLICATIONS U NEED TO OPEN MAY WINDOWS!!

                    THANKS!
                    REUVEN
                    Reuven Amiel.

                    The Avenue of Sound.
                    Record Producer/Songwriter.
                    Miami, FL.

                    "There are no rules, just knowledge and experimentation"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Myshell
                      I just recently upgraded to Live 5.

                      I was wondering...can you control third party soft synths/plug-ins with a controller like you can the native synths/plugs?

                      I scanned through the 'help' files but couldn't find anything. Of course, I am a little blonde...so it could very well be there.

                      Thanks,

                      Myshell


                      Hi Myshell,

                      You may have figured this out by now, but you can control most VST plug-ins with a MIDI controller. The key is to unfold the plug-in (using the arrow in the upper left hand corner of the plug-in) as this picture shows and then use Live's MIDI Map Mode to assign the control.

                      Hope this is helpful.

                      Best,
                      Dave
                      Dave Hill Jr.
                      Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

                      Ableton AG
                      dave@ableton.com
                      www.ableton.com

                      Check out Live 5!
                      Create. Produce. Perform.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by AMIEL
                        HI I WANT A PROGRAM THAT HANDLES LOOPS ALMOST AS EASY AS ACID DOES, BUT THAT IS MORE STABLE AND THAT THE AUDIO FIDELITY IS BETTER!

                        REUVEN AMIEL


                        Hi Reuven,

                        I may be a little biased but I think you will not be disappointed with Live 5. Please check earlier pages in this forum for more info / comparisons between Live and other DAWs / Acid Pro.

                        One thing we don't have is dual monitor support yet for Live's two windows. You can however place third party plug-ins on another monitor.

                        Speaking to your questions:
                        STABLE?
                        dave sez "Yes!"

                        AUDIO FIDELITY IS BETTER? Live supports 16, 24 and 32 bit audio.

                        2 MONITORS?
                        dave sez "not yet"

                        HOW GOOD IS THE MIDI?
                        I am not sure about Acid's MIDI these days, anyone care to comment? Live's MIDI is different from the standard approach. Some folks in this thread say it isn't enough, some say it is plenty. Perhaps check our demo at www.ableton.com/downloads

                        ALLOWS YOU TO DETERMINE HOW MANY OUTPUTS YOU CAN HAVE FROM VSTIs THAT HAVE MULTIPLE OUTPUTS AS BATTERY? CAN I REDUCE THEM TO 2 O 4 OUTPUTS?
                        dave sez Yes!

                        HOW GOOD IS TO MIX ON LIVE5, HAVE FEATURES AS BUSSES, INSERTS, PRE, POST?
                        Our routing is simple, flexible and can even be set up while you listen / playback. Yes you can do that stuff (pre/post returns and create inserts).

                        HOW GOOD IS USING VSTiS AND OTHER PLUG INS?
                        dave sez "very good but you should always make sure you have the latest patch of your third party plug-in and try at home before you take the stage"

                        ACCEPT AUTOMATIONS TO OTHERS PLUG INS O VSTiS?
                        er, do you mean FROM other VSTi plug-ins? You can automate plug-ins in Live and I hear Live can accept MIDI from other plug-ins but I haven't tried this myself. Perhaps try our forum? Anyone want to help Reuven get loop crazy?

                        ANY OTHER PROGRAM THAT YOU RECCOMEND MAYBE?
                        hmmm. . . well, for loops there are lots of fun tools out there but from the questions you are asking you are looking for a DAW I think. I'll leave this one to the forum . . .

                        You also mention: IS SOMETIMES ANOYING THAT FOR DOING SIMPLE APPLICATIONS U NEED TO OPEN MAY WINDOWS!
                        I would say that Live's limit of 2 views will help you a lot here.

                        Good luck on the music project,
                        dave
                        Dave Hill Jr.
                        Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

                        Ableton AG
                        dave@ableton.com
                        www.ableton.com

                        Check out Live 5!
                        Create. Produce. Perform.

                        Comment


                        • Thanks, Dave.

                          I'll give that a try. I assume that will work with Audio Units as well.

                          Thanks,

                          Myshell
                          Myshell Nukina
                          http://www.nukina.ca
                          http://www.djmyshell.com

                          Comment


                          • <<I may be a little biased but I think you will not be disappointed with Live 5.>>

                            I'm not biased and I agree. It's a hot program.

                            << One thing we don't have is dual monitor support yet.>>

                            Which should be on the to-do list for L6!

                            <<STABLE?
                            dave sez "Yes!">>

                            So does Craig.

                            <<AUDIO FIDELITY IS BETTER?>>

                            See the comments in this thread re: the importance of choosing the right stretching algorithm in order to preserve audio quality.

                            <<I am not sure about Acid's MIDI these days, anyone care to comment?>>

                            I prefer Live's implementation, it's more oriented toward real time pattern creation. I would consider it on a par with Project5's, which I also think has outstanding MIDI pattern functionality.

                            <<Perhaps check our demo at www.ableton.com/downloads

                            Good advice!

                            <<dave sez "very good but you should always make sure you have the latest patch of your third party plug-in and try at home before you take the stage">>

                            Dave is right.

                            <<You also mention: IS SOMETIMES ANOYING THAT FOR DOING SIMPLE APPLICATIONS U NEED TO OPEN MAY WINDOWS!
                            I would say that Live's limit of 2 views will help you a lot here. >>

                            Sonar has greatly improved the MIDI implementation in Sonar 5, you can now edit MIDI "in-place" in a track.
                            N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                            Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                            Comment


                            • Craig was too fast for me but I will edit my post above next. Live does support two monitors in that you can drag a third party plug-in to a second monitor. At present Live does not allow Session and Arrangement to be split to two screens. I can't promise when or how, but this feature has been on our list for some time.

                              cheers,
                              Dave
                              Dave Hill Jr.
                              Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

                              Ableton AG
                              dave@ableton.com
                              www.ableton.com

                              Check out Live 5!
                              Create. Produce. Perform.

                              Comment


                              • To all of you who are wondering which one is the cats meow Ableton or Acid I can tell you that each was invented with a different purpose in mind. Acid is outstanding in its design and simplicity and is very good for loops and raw recording. Ableton is a musicians tool and I found that it sounds better. It was quite evident to me that the designers were trying to make a super-tool for musicians and not technicians. I can tell you this. After re-importing some tracks back into Acid from Ableton, my loops were perfect. The fact that it understands ReCycle means no matter what kind of loop you throw at Ableton you can perform magic with it.
                                Acid is very flexible for editing with but it isn't what I call Computer Aided Composing like Ableton, where Acid is more of a Killer digital tape splicer. Hope it helps!
                                Aspire to Inspire before you Expire

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