Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

1628413

Collapse
X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    If you could *update* the Sonar Vs Everything else mini article by giving us a Sonar 5 Vs everything else summary I think that would be very helpful as it was for Sonar 3.


    I'm working on it now.

    Craig
    CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

    Subscribe, like, and share the links!

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Anderton


      I'm working on it now.

      Craig


      Thanks Craig.
      http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com/splash.htm

      Comment


      • #93
        Would Sonar 5 run okay on a 1 GHz, 512 MB, Win PX machine?
        MySpace
        Blog

        Blatant advertizing for one of my latest "one man band" productions.
        http://www.gymusic.com/audio/ItFeelsLIkeHome_Mix1.mp3

        “I believe that working with limited tracks in those days made us better arrangers. Having to do reductions made us better mixers. Having limited equipment made us better engineers.” - 2008 GY

        Comment


        • #94
          Cakewalk's web site shows minimum requirement of P4 1.3 GHz, 128 MB memory. Recommended is P4 2.8 GHz with 512 MB memory. You are below the minimum for CPU. That isn't to say that you couldn't run SONAR with some reduced expectations for the number of softsynths or effects or audio tracks that you could run. The cool new stuff in v5 has me thinking about upgrading my hardware, and I'm running a P4 3.01 GHz (I'll see how well my system runs with the SONAR upgrade once I actually get it. Still waiting...).

          Comment


          • #95
            I checked out M-Audio's Key Rig with Sonar 5, and has some serious CPU spiking issues. It's likely not Key Rig, as neither Cubase SX 3.1 nor Project5 have the same problems. Basically, the CPU hangs out in the 20% range, then occasionally spikes up to 80% or even the "Warning" zone.

            Even with a project that has nothing loaded other than Key Rig, the CPU meter peaks out often. I've increased latency to 11 ms and it's better, but still have some problems. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether I turn the 64-bit engine or multiprocessing engine (I use a dual Athlon computer) on or off.

            Anyway, I brought this to Cakewalk's attention and they're investigating it...might be related to the CPU meter bug mentioned previously. I'll keep you posted; this seems like the kind of thing that gets a patch before too long.
            CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

            Subscribe, like, and share the links!

            Comment


            • #96
              Just wanted to say a big thank you Craig for your reviews. Really interesting reading and oh so informative. Also thanks to Cakewalk for pointing me in the right direction.

              Thanks,

              Gerry
              Those who can't dance always blame the band.
              http://www.gerrycooper.com/

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by GY
                Would Sonar 5 run okay on a 1 GHz, 512 MB, Win PX machine?


                It'll run just fine.

                You will obviously be limited to what and how much you can do, but unless you are trying to run a huge amount of DXi/VSTi you'll be pleasantly surprised.
                Cheers
                Mick

                Comment


                • #98
                  I noticed that the CPU spiking happens only if the properties page is open. If I close it, the CPU consumption settles down to a much more normal number. So I guess there's some kind of interaction with the graphics somehow...I've passed this info along to Cakewalk.
                  CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

                  Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Finally caught up with these last two pages. Good -- make that, really good -- info, Craig.

                    [I'm onboard for the update, anyhow (just putting it off 'til I get over the sticker and bloatware shock of Macromedia's Studio 8 update (Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks and some stupid crap that no one who uses DW will ever need or want that they obviously put in to make up for taking out useful but no longer developed apps like Freehand). Damn I hate Macromedia. Too bad I hate Adobe even worse. But these apps are just pigs vis a vis the MX versions (2 vers back.) Anyhow, it looks like I won't get the same sinking feeling loading up Sonar 5 -- and that's a big relief.]


                    Btw... I couldn't help laugh outloud reading your 2004 Sonar 3 vs everything else writeup when I got to the bit about Logic...
                    Logic Audio 5.5, the last version created for Windows, is still touted by some partisans as being superior to every other program out there. OK, how I can say this delicately... this is like people who take their cat to a taxidermist when it dies, then leave it on a chair in the living room so they can pretend it's still alive. Message to Windows Logic users: yes, it's a great program, but at some point you'll need to get a Mac, or find an alternative on Windows.


                    Purr-iceless.
                    .

                    music and social links | recent listening

                    Comment


                    • Well without further ado, let’s proceed to arguably one of the bigger elements of the update (aside from the 64-bit audio engine, the convolution reverb, the improved MIDI, the better workflow…): V-Vocal.

                      Let’s make one thing clear – V-Vocal is a misleading name, because it works with lots of different sounds. I took a synth bass part, and turned it into a fretless by drawing curves to slide from one note to another. Polyphonic material is hit and miss, but just about anything monophonic is eligible for V-Vocalizing. The only caution is that you probably will want to normalize any V-Vocal clip down a few dB; the process introduces minor level changes and if the headroom is exceeded, you’ll hear a very nasty click.

                      But I’m getting ahead of myself, sorry.

                      V-Vocal is not a plug-in. Instead, you turn a clip into a “V-Vocal” clip, when then shows up in the V-Vocal display. Click on the Attachment to see V-Vocal adjusting pitch.. This is where you have control over four different sonic elements:

                      Pitch. This is your basic pitch correction, which you can do manually or automatically.
                      Time. If you’re familiar with Live 5’s warp markers, you’ll understand this. You can stretch or compress time within a file; for example, with a drum part you can “lag” just one snare hit. With vocals, of course, you can stretch out a note or make it staccato.
                      Formant. If you pitch a vocal note up, you can use the formant option to change the formant back down again, and vice-versa. If you’re too pressed for time to do this on a note-by-note basis, you can have it follow the pitch line.
                      Dynamics. Bring up soft parts, and bring down loud ones…or add unnatural dynamics.

                      Formant and Dynamics have envelopes you can treat as draggable segments, or use a pencil for freehand (or a line tool when you need a smooth change). With Time, you insert a marker and drag it left or right, bringing along the audio along with it. Pitch works like similar pitch correction software; you drag a note up or down, referenced to a pitch scale along the left. But you can also use the pencil or line tool, or click a note on a keyboard to have the note “snap” to that pitch. And, constrain to a minor or major scale.

                      Three editable parameters govern the correction’s “naturalness.” The Note control is like pitch quantization, from nothing to total dead-on pitch. The Vibrato control “flattens out” any vibrato at one extreme, and leaves it totally intact at the other; Sense widens or narrows the range affected by pitch correction. Bottom line: You can create very natural changes, or go for the robot shifting voice that we all know.

                      Then there’s the groovy LFO tool, where you can draw vibrato, optionally fade it in, and drag up or down to specify the depth as well as right or left to change the frequency. I love this option…it’s so cool.

                      Best of all, you can go completely nuts and not worry. There are undo/redo controls within V-Vocal itself, but if you drag the eraser tool over a piece of audio, it goes back to the way it was before you got all goofy about it.

                      Oh, and here’s a tip for drum timing: Material that’s unstretched sounds like the source material; changes occur only with stretched material. Suppose you want to have one snare sound hit late. So you click in front of the snare, and “push” the sound to the right. But this time-compresses everything to the right, or to the next “warp marker,” whichever it encounters first. So then you click in front of the next beat to uncompress the rest of the file…but it’s hard to get it exact, so there’s a little bit of stretching, and the sound changes a bit.

                      A better way to change the timing of one hit is to put a marker before and after the sound. Now you can move the sound anywhere within that “window,” without disturbing the rest of the file.

                      I could go on about V-Vocal, it’s incredibly flexible and useful. Samplitude and MOTU include these types of capabilities, but Sonar’s implementation is unusually complete. I’ve always liked Roland’s VariPhrase technology, but it was always found in things that were too expensive for my tastes. And now it’s built in to Sonar 5! This feature is an out-of-the-park home run that provides stunningly useful processing option for vocals, as well as many other sounds.

                      But I do think it’s going to take me until Sonar 6 comes out before I learn how to exploit this to the fullest. It seems every time I play with V-Vocal, I come up with some groovacious new application.
                      CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

                      Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                      Comment


                      • Digesting the V-Vocal thing, here...

                        I think I've stumbled on a new grail for those looking for a quest.

                        How about vocal pitch correction -- and especially harmony generation -- that uses 'true intervals' rather than the often awkardly out of tune even-tempered intervals.

                        I really hate the sound of 'piano-correct' vocalists and particularly harmony singers who use even-tempered note values instead of going with true harmonic intervals (like all the good vocal ensembles do whether they know it or not -- and which is why smart vocal ensembles try to avoid support instruments that play sustained notes, like organs, that create a harmonic mine field for any ensemble trying to sing true intervals instead of 'piano notes.')
                        .

                        music and social links | recent listening

                        Comment


                        • You can adjust V-vocal pitch to whatever interval you like; it's not necessary to snap to the even-tempered scale. For example, I find that sometimes making a note a little flat if it's leading up the tonic can sound pretty cool.
                          CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

                          Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Anderton
                            Well without further ado, let’s proceed to arguably one of the bigger elements of the update (aside from the 64-bit audio engine, the convolution reverb, the improved MIDI, the better workflow…): V-Vocal.

                            Let’s make one thing clear – V-Vocal is a misleading name, because it works with lots of different sounds. I took a synth bass part, and turned it into a fretless by drawing curves to slide from one note to another. Polyphonic material is hit and miss, but just about anything monophonic is eligible for V-Vocalizing. The only caution is that you probably will want to normalize any V-Vocal clip down a few dB; the process introduces minor level changes and if the headroom is exceeded, you’ll hear a very nasty click.

                            Wow, that's a great tip, Craig. Good thing we updated our Normalize tool.

                            I haven't tried this myself, but one of our beta testers suggested that normalizing before creating a V-Vocal clip might be a good idea because of the origins of VariPhrase technology in general - that the technology was originally used in samplers, where wavetables are often normalized.

                            However, there is a pre-analysis component to working with V-Vocal - I would bet this analysis step takes care of this.
                            But I’m getting ahead of myself, sorry.

                            V-Vocal is not a plug-in. Instead, you turn a clip into a “V-Vocal” clip, when then shows up in the V-Vocal display. Click on the Attachment to see V-Vocal adjusting pitch.. This is where you have control over four different sonic elements:

                            Pitch. This is your basic pitch correction, which you can do manually or automatically.
                            Time. If you’re familiar with Live 5’s warp markers, you’ll understand this. You can stretch or compress time within a file; for example, with a drum part you can “lag” just one snare hit. With vocals, of course, you can stretch out a note or make it staccato.
                            Formant. If you pitch a vocal note up, you can use the formant option to change the formant back down again, and vice-versa. If you’re too pressed for time to do this on a note-by-note basis, you can have it follow the pitch line.
                            Dynamics. Bring up soft parts, and bring down loud ones…or add unnatural dynamics.

                            Formant and Dynamics have envelopes you can treat as draggable segments, or use a pencil for freehand (or a line tool when you need a smooth change). With Time, you insert a marker and drag it left or right, bringing along the audio along with it. Pitch works like similar pitch correction software; you drag a note up or down, referenced to a pitch scale along the left. But you can also use the pencil or line tool, or click a note on a keyboard to have the note “snap” to that pitch. And, constrain to a minor or major scale.

                            Three editable parameters govern the correction’s “naturalness.” The Note control is like pitch quantization, from nothing to total dead-on pitch. The Vibrato control “flattens out” any vibrato at one extreme, and leaves it totally intact at the other; Sense widens or narrows the range affected by pitch correction. Bottom line: You can create very natural changes, or go for the robot shifting voice that we all know.

                            Then there’s the groovy LFO tool, where you can draw vibrato, optionally fade it in, and drag up or down to specify the depth as well as right or left to change the frequency. I love this option…it’s so cool.

                            Best of all, you can go completely nuts and not worry. There are undo/redo controls within V-Vocal itself, but if you drag the eraser tool over a piece of audio, it goes back to the way it was before you got all goofy about it.

                            Oh, and here’s a tip for drum timing: Material that’s unstretched sounds like the source material; changes occur only with stretched material. Suppose you want to have one snare sound hit late. So you click in front of the snare, and “push” the sound to the right. But this time-compresses everything to the right, or to the next “warp marker,” whichever it encounters first. So then you click in front of the next beat to uncompress the rest of the file…but it’s hard to get it exact, so there’s a little bit of stretching, and the sound changes a bit.

                            A better way to change the timing of one hit is to put a marker before and after the sound. Now you can move the sound anywhere within that “window,” without disturbing the rest of the file.

                            Another great tip. This kind of technique is equally great for moving the timing of just one particular note or phrase of a melody/vocal line.

                            I could go on about V-Vocal, it’s incredibly flexible and useful. Samplitude and MOTU include these types of capabilities, but Sonar’s implementation is unusually complete. I’ve always liked Roland’s VariPhrase technology, but it was always found in things that were too expensive for my tastes. And now it’s built in to Sonar 5! This feature is an out-of-the-park home run that provides stunningly useful processing option for vocals, as well as many other sounds.

                            But I do think it’s going to take me until Sonar 6 comes out before I learn how to exploit this to the fullest. It seems every time I play with V-Vocal, I come up with some groovacious new application.

                            I feel the same way - it's an incredibly deep tool!

                            We've had producers and engineers use V-Vocal to make very fine and subtle corrections to high-end vocal recordings without a flaw, and at the same time...

                            We've learned that, because V-Vocal is so flexible with its control ranges, it makes for an awesome tool for doing some pretty extreme mangling of vocals and other instruments.

                            One of our QA engineers is a drummer in a very dark, heavy and noisy industrial band, and he came up to my desk one Monday morning with an extremely devlish ear-to-ear smile on his face and said, "V-Vocal is FUUUUUNNNNN."
                            Alex Westner
                            Director of Product Management
                            http://www.cakewalk.com

                            Comment


                            • I just had a hunch...I went into the VST configuration wizard, and increased the editor pixel size for Key Rig by about 20 pixels. Problem solved! With the properties page open, there's no additional CPU consumption compared to having it closed.

                              I wonder if other reports of plug-in problems relate to this same situation. If so, try running the wizard and adjusting the editor size.
                              CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

                              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                              Comment


                              • Interestingly, this is found under the VST effects menu...not DX. Hmmm…

                                But I digress, so let’s hit the bottom line: This is an excellent, world class reverb. I was able to get some good effects out of Pantheon, but quite a few people weren’t entirely satisfied with its sound. PerfectSpace addresses that, period. It’s great.

                                It works like most convolution ’verbs: You load an impulse that “models” a real, or unreal, space. Sonar 5 includes plenty of these to get you started; the plates sounded great on vocals. And like most convolution reverbs, it likes to drink deep at the CPU well. But that’s what freeze is for, right?

                                Another cool thing is that PerfectSpace is very editable; there’s way more than the usual dry/wet controls (although of course, those controls are present, along with a pan control for the wet signal). Click on the Attachment to see a hi pass curve that reduces the reverb’s low end. There are similar editable envelopes for volume, width, pan, lo pass, and EQ (and the breakpoint curve lets you dial in any response you want).

                                It’s also possible to make some changes to the impulse itself (offset, length, and delay), and there are non-“space” impulses, like bass amp, acoustic guitar body, etc. These are wild and yes, putting a bass recorded direct through the bass amp impulse sounds like a bass going through an amp. You can load your own WAV files as impulses, and all I can say is, wow…I used some wild drum loops as impulses, and the results were astounding on a variety of material (being able to change the impulse length and offset is a tremendous advantage here).

                                The verdict: Convolution reverbs aren’t new, they have latency, and they suck CPU power. And they sound great! PerfectSpace is an exceptionally worthwhile addition to Sonar that adds a lot of value to the program, and will probably be all the reverb most users will need.

                                I am really digging this upgrade…and we’ll wrap up the Pro Review later tonight. Now it’s time for dinner - mmmm, fresh salmon...
                                CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X