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  • #46
    One of the big changes to Sonar is to the mix engine -- it is now a LOT smoother. Cakewalk calls it "gapless", and it seems pretty darn close. Not only can I change parameters in plugins without stuttering, I can add and delete the plugins without any audible gaps. It totally rocks.

    I don't know about selectively disabling PDC -- or if it is still needed with the new engine.

    -lee-

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Alndln2
      All sounds good so far.I'm just wondering though wether Sonars now time still stops when adjusting certain 3rd party plugins (mostly VST) during playback.Another thing concerning me was the ability to disable PDC individually for certain older plugs that couldn't deal with it,and I'm reasonably certain that Craig still has some older plugs allergic to PDC for that test.

      Disabling PDC for any particular plug-in is easy:
        Alex Westner
        Director of Product Management
        http://www.cakewalk.com

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        • #48
          Originally posted by Anderton
          << just hope to hell they improved the Nudge tool.>>

          Nope, but the Nudge keys are on the numeric keypad, so at least you'll be happy about that!

          <<And I hope they included a way to lock clips in place in the tracks... >>

          Not that I've found...




          Oh well...

          Heck... I was almost afraid to post that 'lock-clips-in-place' wish, since it seems like such an oversight that I was afraid I was just missing something.

          Well, hiding tracks seems to protect them (although I suspect there are some gotchya's there when chopping up projects, rearranging sections, and the like). And folders also help. But I just want to be able to lock a clip in place with regards to time so a careless flick of the mouse doesn't screw you. Like the nudge tool and its hotkeys -- its the potential for accidentally making changes you don't notice until it's too late that is so troubling.

          (And I have had to lose changes I intended in order to undo changes I didn't. Fortunately, I caught them in time... but it would be all too easy to nudge or drag a track without realizing it as things are set up.)

          Anyhow, I'm overall really looking forward to S5. I was (mostly) very pleased by my jump from 2.2 to 4 (S3 was the only update I skipped since CWP6).


          Okay, so wish list for S6 -- a decent nudge tool (where you can AT LEAST see how much you're nudging without drilling down into configuration settings! And with the option of more than three preset nudges... I mean, you'd think they had to pay extra to give you more than three...) and a way to prevent unwanted changes to clips/tracks that will keep the track visible.


          Of course, if we had selective undo, that would help, too. Other apps are adopting this concept -- and with non-destructive editing already in place in many aspects of Sonar -- it's a natural, seems to me.

          Thanks to Craig for this excellent thread and thanks to our friends at CW for showing up, as well. (Now if they had a presence in their own support forum... )
          .

          music and social links | recent listening

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          • #49
            I am wondering about Sonar user's thoughts about Cakewalk's approach to pricing for upgrades. I have Sonar 4 Producer, owned for about 8-9 months (if memory serves me well), but didn't get around to installing it until ~May 2005 (this had to do with my attempts at putting it on Tablet PC -- another story...).

            Although I understand that more features have been added in version 5, I'm generally not a happy camper with the trend for some software companies, Cakewalk included, to do the "yearly" new product release, which translates almost into more of a subscription service model (without it being so stated). I can easily see the hand of the marketing folks in such company decisions and trying to ramp up top line revenue, among other aspects. Do other users simply pay and are glad? Or some other impact? I'm not sure whether I want to go to v5 or not. And please, I'm hoping for reasoned comments, not emotional outbursts (thanks).

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            • #50
              Originally posted by blue2blue
              (Now if they had a presence in their own support forum... )


              I know you put a smiley after the sentence, but for the record, I want to say that IMHO, Cakewalk has a MUCH bigger presence on their boards than other manufacturers (Stein...). I've seen quality detailed information from at least 4 different people -- sometimes I'm shocked by the level of detail shared.

              The Cakewalk forums ARE "user to user", but they do have folks who poke their head in on a darn regular basis.

              -lee-

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              • #51
                Originally posted by DrummerCT
                I am wondering about Sonar user's thoughts about Cakewalk's approach to pricing for upgrades. I have Sonar 4 Producer, owned for about 8-9 months (if memory serves me well), but didn't get around to installing it until ~May 2005 (this had to do with my attempts at putting it on Tablet PC -- another story...).

                ...


                If you use it for a year, that's about fifty cents a day - about a dollar a day for you. Not bad objectively, but it's subjective.
                doug osborne | my day job

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                • #52
                  Originally posted by DrummerCT

                  Although I understand that more features have been added in version 5, I'm generally not a happy camper with the trend for some software companies, Cakewalk included, to do the "yearly" new product release, which translates almost into more of a subscription service model (without it being so stated). I can easily see the hand of the marketing folks in such company decisions and trying to ramp up top line revenue, among other aspects. Do other users simply pay and are glad? Or some other impact? I'm not sure whether I want to go to v5 or not. And please, I'm hoping for reasoned comments, not emotional outbursts (thanks).


                  One reason I'm pretty happy to pay for most Sonar upgrades is the fact that I'm never obligated to. If you're a patient user, you could sit out a few versions and go from, say, Sonar 2 to Sonar 5, paying barely more than the Sonar 4 to Sonar 5 upgrader. It's only an expensive subscription model for those of us that like staying on the latest version (and can't resist value-added extras like the reverb and Pentagon synth).

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                  • #53
                    Craig,

                    Are you running Sonar 5 in 64-Bit or regular 32 Bit mode via the Bit-bridge? If 32, do you notice more CPU useage as before due to the doubled clock cycle processing requirement?

                    Thanks,
                    Wes

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                    • #54
                      Sonar 5 can run in 32-bit mode or 64-bit mode no matter what operating system you are using. BitBridge is used to let you run 32-bit plugins in a 64-bit operating system environment. Most modern CPUs have floating point built into them, so a 64-bit floating point operation takes the same amount of time as a 32-bit operation. You use up more memory with the 64-bit operation, but it is nothing like 2X the time to do it.

                      There is a change to how Sonar handles MIDI for 4.0.3 and 5.0. In order to avoid gapping, processing of some of the MIDI events has been moved to the audio threads, where the CPU meter is measuring. The actual amount of work being done has not changed, only the reporting of the work is more accurate.

                      There is apparently a bug in 4.0.3 that affects a very small number of people where the cpu usage has also gone up. Cakewalk has already announced they will be releasing a 4.0.4 fix. Supposedly the fix code is in 5.0 already, but there are some users who are complaining of increased CPU usage and it is not clear yet if they have a bug, or if it is just the expected reporting increase from the more accurate CPU reporting.

                      -lee-

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                      • #55
                        Originally posted by Anderton Yes! Actually you've been able to do it since, if I recall correctly, Sonar 3.1.


                        Well, yes, quite. But that's not what I call a user friendly method, far from it, in fact. Way to simplistic for my liking.

                        Ah well....
                        Cheers
                        Mick

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                        • #56
                          Hey Craig I dont know if you've found this out or if you have updated your stuff, dont have time to read it all, I just got my S5 busy with that now, but when I was reading earlier, you said about the vst support that all plugins go into vst sub folder, but you have the option not to do that, even in vst adapter you could say dont add vst prefix and it would work. But if you installed a new vst it would reset it self, so far in the new native support I can install and it wont do that , for instance all my vst plugin arent instaled with the vst prefix, and like for instance my blue tube are in a folder by itself, I have to rename them to start off with Blue Tubes but so far they are staying that way, dont know if that is permanent but so far so good. Yo Da Man!

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                          • #57
                            [QUOTE]Originally posted by AW - Cakewalk

                            Disabling PDC for any particular plug-in is easy:
                              for DX coming along??
                            "If Obama wins a second term I will leave the forum". - Visconti

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                            • #58
                              <<Disabling PDC for any particular plug-in is easy>>

                              But I believe this relates only to VST plugs, right?

                              <<Thanks to Craig for this excellent thread and thanks to our friends at CW for showing up, as well. (Now if they had a presence in their own support forum...>>

                              Hmmm. When I've visited the Sonar forum, I've often seen comments from Cakewalkers. Ron Kuper seems particularly conscientious about dealing with some of the tougher questions.

                              <<Are you running Sonar 5 in 64-Bit or regular 32 Bit mode via the Bit-bridge? If 32, do you notice more CPU useage as before due to the doubled clock cycle processing requirement?>>

                              I'm running in 32-bit mode, but it does seem there's more of a hit on the CPU in this version. Could that be due to the 64-bit audio path? Or about the MIDI issue that was mentioned? Alex, any comments on this?
                              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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                              • #59
                                One thing not brought up here,it appears that many early users of S5 are apparently noticing a very big improvement in the audio engine in both 32 and 64 bit versions as reported in this thread http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=603446
                                "If Obama wins a second term I will leave the forum". - Visconti

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                                • #60
                                  Think that the MIDI portion of various programs has been kind of ignored, what with all the attention to digital audio? Sonar 5 boasts a significantly revamped approach to MIDI, and yeah, I’m really liking it…although it took a little bit to wrap my head around the changes. As far as I’m concerned, if you work a lot with MIDI, the improved MIDI features alone justify the upgrade. They’re that good.

                                  We’ll start with the MIDI Scale/Zoom control. Because of all the MIDI changes, and because the forum software allows only one picture file per post, the MIDI section of this review will be broken up among several shorter posts.

                                  Scale/zoom provides a much more detailed view of MIDI data within a track; most of the time, you’ll no longer have to open up the Piano Roll View just to see what’s going on. And you might not want to open it up anyway, as we’ll see in the next post…and if you do open it up, you’ll find that it’s been enhanced as well.

                                  First off, what’s so important about not having to open up the piano roll view? Simple: You can see MIDI data in context with the other MIDI and audio tracks. Furthermore, controller data is now shown along with note data. Granted, all controller data is shown simultaneously – this feature is more for giving the big picture, as you can’t edit when you’re just looking at Clips in the Clips pane. But Sonar 5 also includes new MIDI editing provisions, which we’ll cover in the next post.

                                  The key to using this feature is the “piano keyboard” scale control toward the left, between the track info and the clip. Click and drag up or down on the keyboard to zoom in or out (in other words, make the MIDI notes taller or shorter), right-click and drag up or down to shift the visible part of the keyboard. Click on the Attachment to see various MIDI tracks zoomed in by various amounts. You’ll note in the picture that the top track is zoomed in quite a bit, the middle track less so, and the bottom track the least of all.

                                  You can also zoom by changing the track’s height, but obviously, it’s extremely convenient to retain a track’s height and still be able to zoom in and out. Because controller data doesn’t relate to pitch, it doesn’t change when you use the Zoom/Scale option, but does stretch if you change the track height.

                                  And there’s more:

                                   Right-click on the keyboard, and you have control over layers if the Track Layers button is on (show, rebuild, compact, insert, delete, and select layers).
                                   There’s an option to “Fit Content,” which scales all MIDI data in the track so it fits the allotted space. This can apply to selected tracks, a single track, or all tracks…your choice.
                                   Shift-click on the keyboard, and you’ll audition the associated note.
                                   Shift-click-drag on the keyboard, and you’ll audition all the selected notes over which you dragged.

                                  As a final touch, you can change the scale from showing a keyboard (“Notes”) mode to showing numeric note values (“7 Bit Values”) mode.

                                  I really like this…but there’s more to the MIDI enhancements.
                                  Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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