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  • Originally posted by Anderton
    Okay, I am NOT "Mr. Expert on Scoring," so I hope others can chime in.

    I work with a publishing company that does a lot of sheet music. They don't consider any of the DAWs as adequate, they use programs designed specifically for sheet music. I think that if you want engraving quality notation, you would need to do the export/import thang. Comments, anyone?


    Thanks Craig, I can understand that - I guess you're talking about Sibelius etc - but I just something halfway decent to give to musicians! Looks like I'd have to go for import / export for now.

    How would I submit a development request to Cakewalk ? I'd like to see what their thoughts are.

    thanks

    Rich

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    • Cakewalk Feature Request
      doug osborne | my day job

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      • Originally posted by doug osborne
        Cakewalk Feature Request


        thanks Doug

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        • I just purchased Sonar 5. Reading this review with he program open was a great way to get acquainted with it.

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          • Make sure you get the latest update. It fixes a lot of those "if you're using this software on a certain computer running a certain CPU on an even-numbered day of the month" problems, as well as fixing some envelope issues.

            FYI I put Sonar through a real torture test developing the loops for my next live performance...at one point I had about 70 very short loops, all reading from an unfragmented disk and most with a bunch of effects. I also had IK Philharmonik and SampleTank, as well as East-West Colossus, RA, and Morphology loaded up...maybe a couple other soft synths, too.

            Sonar held up really well CPU/latency-wise, although past a certain point, the disk gave up. I converted a bunch of the loops to groove clips to put them in RAM, which made the disk happier.
            N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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            • Originally posted by Anderton
              Make sure you get the latest update. It fixes a lot of those "if you're using this software on a certain computer running a certain CPU on an even-numbered day of the month" problems, as well as fixing some envelope issues.

              FYI I put Sonar through a real torture test developing the loops for my next live performance...at one point I had about 70 very short loops, all reading from an unfragmented disk and most with a bunch of effects. I also had IK Philharmonik and SampleTank, as well as East-West Colossus, RA, and Morphology loaded up...maybe a couple other soft synths, too.

              Sonar held up really well CPU/latency-wise, although past a certain point, the disk gave up. I converted a bunch of the loops to groove clips to put them in RAM, which made the disk happier.


              Thanks for the heads up. One thing it did fix was my US-428 individual sliders were not controlling the volumes of he channels, now they do. This controller has never worked better.

              I've also noted with the upgrade the CPU load meter is down.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Anderton
                Okay, I am NOT "Mr. Expert on Scoring," so I hope others can chime in.

                I work with a publishing company that does a lot of sheet music. They don't consider any of the DAWs as adequate, they use programs designed specifically for sheet music. I think that if you want engraving quality notation, you would need to do the export/import thang. Comments, anyone?


                Yes, Mr. Anderton, I agree... gotta use something like SIBELIUS or FINALE for truly publishing-worthy appearance sheet music. Best bet is to quantize your MIDI part(s) in SONAR (if not quantized, you'll have your work cut out for you later!), save them as MIDI files, then import them into SIBELIUS or FINALE where you can give your parts the thorough editing they need to be eminently handsome and playable. Especially true for piano/organ and other polyphonic or dual-staff instruments. Still, if you just had a monophonic riff you wanted to present to, say, a studio trumpeter or flautist, a printout from SONAR's Staff View will work fine (provided you've set up your Key and staff data there appropriately!).

                I too agree that SONAR 5 is a MAJOR upgrade.... Just the recorded audio alone sounds better for reasons I can't quite put my finger on. The sound is just richer. Meatier. Solider. (Note: these are not real musical terms). It meshes beautifully and glitchlessly on an XP OS.

                ...and yes, V-VOCAL is da shiznit!!! Makes one's mind swim with possibilities. Kids, we've officially left auditory reality behind, and we've exited to the world of The Jetsons. LOL

                What I love about V-VOCAL is the way it's so seamlessly integrated into SONAR... Little you do in the V-VOCAL console is going to upset SONAR or your CPU. What's cool is the ability to tweak all of V-VOCAL's maps on-the-fly, in real-time. For me, it's tempting to forgo subtlety altogether, and imbue even my lamest, most vanilla vocals with incredible punch, style and soulfulness. Heck, why not?

                Almost makes ya want to go abduct some cute teenager (with a lacklustre voice) from a shopping mall and turn them overnight into An Instant Vocal Superstar American Idol Grammy Winner. LOL Let them jiggle on MTV; heck, you control their voice!

                A neat way to make quick, tight harmony vocals: Duplicate your lead vocal two or three times, push your individual notes to their desired harmonies [note to an earlier post-er here: feel free to push your harmonies sharp or flat, with a dark or bright Formant, as desired. If your resulting harmonies exhibit a vibrato & tremolo that's too similar to your Lead, simply use your Timing tool to "push" and "pull" samples within your harmony clips, left and right, to vary the timings of the vibratos. Neat. A little reverb and pan-potting and you're good.

                The only thing I haven't quite figured out yet with V-VOCAL, is how to turn only parts of a track into a V-VOCAL editing track...
                Furthermore, I haven't figured out a way to "confirm my changes" permanently.... ie., return my V-VOCAL track into a regular audio track, but with the new changes permanently applied to it. Does one just leave one's V-VOCAL tracks in the V-VOCAL mode all the way into the final mixdown process? Just a minor thing.

                PerfectSpace sounds gorgeous... it sounds...well... like an actual space, rather than a reverb applied after-the-fact... There are no nasty artifacts or ringings or phase anomalies or unnatural tails or deadnesses... it just sounds like Your Source Audio In A Room. Period. Very kewl. I've never used a reverb whose presets were instantly useable, with no tweaking! I even made an Impulse of my own living room (popping balloons hither and thither) and the result was pretty darn good. Though not as good, of course, as the incredible Impulses included with SONAR 5, [The Skillman Bible Church room will make you weep, it's so beautiful] and the ones available on the 'Net, (as these have been made by more sophisticated microphones and recording apparatus than my own).

                I got so involved, having fun with this new SONAR, that I noticed only late, that nothing I did-- plugins, edits, recording, softsynths-- caused my CPU to go crazy or hiccup or cause SONAR to fail. This, in itself, is reason for celebration.

                At present, the only things on my SONAR wishlist would be: A). an in-house 3D spectrum analyzer that has a BIG interface... a big pretty interactive waterfall that can be generated ultra-quickly, just from one selected portion of audio. B). Microtuning capabilities that are extensive and flexible, but which do not necessarily require you to have a PhD in Engineering and Music History to understand (á là the third-party program, SCALA. I'm sure SCALA is fab, but I can scarcely make head nor tail of it.)... C). It would be super-swell to be able to apply your VST/DX effects to your MIDI tracks just as easily as you do your audio tracks. I'm not sure how it could be arranged, but I'll bet it could!

                Those three additions, and my fantasy DAW would be a reality. Honestly, I think extensive video editing and sheet music editing capabilities should probably still be left to other, specialty proggies.

                Something I have not seen yet, but would like to, is a 3D spectrum analyzer in which you can actually reach into the "waterfall" with your cursor, and raise and lower only select frequencies, ad libidum, and hear the filtration result in realtime. Maybe a loop-type console in the fashion of V-VOCAL.

                Does such a thing exist?
                Every paint-stroke takes you farther and farther away from your initial concept. And you have to be thankful for that. Wayne Thiebaud


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                • <<Something I have not seen yet, but would like to, is a 3D spectrum analyzer in which you can actually reach into the "waterfall" with your cursor, and raise and lower only select frequencies, ad libidum, and hear the filtration result in realtime. Maybe a loop-type console in the fashion of V-VOCAL.>>

                  The closest I've come to that is with the Har-Bal mastering program and with Audition's Frequency Space editing function, but neither is 3d.
                  N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                  Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                  • Very cool, Mr. Anderton, thanks.


                    ras
                    Every paint-stroke takes you farther and farther away from your initial concept. And you have to be thankful for that. Wayne Thiebaud


                    Friend me on FACEBOOK!

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                    • Originally posted by rasputin1963


                      The only thing I haven't quite figured out yet with V-VOCAL, is how to turn only parts of a track into a V-VOCAL editing track...
                      Furthermore, I haven't figured out a way to "confirm my changes" permanently.... ie., return my V-VOCAL track into a regular audio track, but with the new changes permanently applied to it. Does one just leave one's V-VOCAL tracks in the V-VOCAL mode all the way into the final mixdown process? Just a minor thing.


                      what i do is to split the track at the section that i want to v-vocal, apply trimming and then v-vocal it.

                      also, to "confirm changes" permanently, right click and select bounce to clip. s5 will create a new clip with your v-vocalled changes and also keep your original clip as a muted clip

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                      • This is a cross post, which could provide some insight for anyone interested in upgrading from Pro 9 to SONAR 5 Studio. Original post located here

                        Sonar 5 Studio...a Little Dissapointed

                        Well, the thread title is a little misleading. It is a highly functional application on which Mr. Anderton covered in depth not that long ago. Let me preface this with a little background.

                        I have been a Cakewalk user for a long time and stopped upgrading versions with Pro Audio 9. After recently obtaining a copy of CUBASE LE bundled with a Tascam 1082 purchase and seeing how functional this freebie was, I decided it was time to upgrade.

                        Overall I love the app and I'm sure as I learn the deeper functionality will love it even more. There is a ton of stuff which is a huge improvement of Pro 9. However, a few things were a little disappointing...

                        1) Extract Timing - This was a built in function in Pro 9 which was basically a gate which functioned as a midi trigger to a specified note. I used this function to create midi tracks for snare and kick enhancement/replacement all the time. I did not see it in SONAR 5 studio, perhaps it is part of the Producer edition. I know there are free plugs which do this now, it was just a nice built in feature that I enjoyed.

                        EDIT: This function is part of SONAR 5 Studio, I posted before fully examining the software, the menu location changed.

                        2) SONAR experienced a ton latency on softsynths when using WDM drivers. Switching to ASIO drivers significantly reduced the latency (which was confusing to me as I thought audio drivers wouldn't effect softsynth performance), however the app defaults to the WDM option. It took me a while to figure this out and I was about to pull my hair out thinking I wasted my money.

                        3) Speaking of softsynths, the bundled softsynths were a big disappointment...not that I was expecting much. However, since SONAR is in it's 5th incarnation of softsynth integration I kinda expected something more. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I didn't hear anything any more usable than the GM softsynth included with CUBASE LE.

                        On the up side - TASCAM 1082 integration was seamless and easily allows custom programming of special surface function controls, 'freeze' is a wonderfully time saving function, and the bundled plug in package is nice.

                        I guess I was just expecting SONAR 5 to include be Pro 9 X 5...

                        EDIT-Upon digging deeper, I really taken advantage of many of the more advanced features. For example the 'native'VST support is great. Using a wrapper in Pro 9 resulted in a loss of all presets, not so now.
                        Will Chen Trio | FrugalGuitarist.com | FG on Facebook | Forum

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                        • Studio comes with these soft synths:

                          Roland® GrooveSynth™
                          TTS-1™ GM2 synth
                          Cyclone™ groove sampler
                          SFZ SoundFont sampler

                          [TTS-1 is a pretty useful and mostly quite musical GM2 synth, in my view. A good GM synth can be invaluable even if you never, ever use it in a finished work. (That said, it's got some pretty decent sounds.) And SFZ opens up the world of SoundFonts, where there are a huge number of cool free sample sets.]

                          And Pro adds:

                          RXP™ REX Player groove box
                          PSYN™ II subtractive synth
                          Pentagon™ I analog synth

                          _______________


                          As you've discovered the integrated VST handling also opens you up to a large variety of free (and not so) soft synths.

                          [Check out http://www.hammersound.net/ for free SoundFont sets and Synths, as well as demos and trials of payfors.]
                          .

                          music and social links | recent listening

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                          • Hi Craig,
                            I came across two questions today as I was helping a friend of mine on his Sonar 5 rig.

                            1) How can you"solo isolate" a track? Seems like a simple thing to do but I couldn't find it in our limited time.
                            2) What gates are available for Sonar that accept side chain inputs to a gate. I couldn't do it with the Sonitus Gate. It only has a side chain filter; not what I was looking for.

                            Thanks for helping.
                            Best,
                            Dave Reitzas
                            www.reitzas.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Reitzas
                              Hi Craig,
                              I came across two questions today as I was helping a friend of mine on his Sonar 5 rig.

                              1) How can you"solo isolate" a track? Seems like a simple thing to do but I couldn't find it in our limited time.
                              2) What gates are available for Sonar that accept side chain inputs to a gate. I couldn't do it with the Sonitus Gate. It only has a side chain filter; not what I was looking for.

                              Thanks for helping.
                              Best,
                              Dave Reitzas
                              www.reitzas.com


                              (I'm not Craig...)

                              The best way to "solo isolate" is to assign the track to a Quick Group.

                              SONAR doesn't directly offer compressor sidechain (despite many feature requests). It can be done with creative bus assignements (put the compressor on a separate bus and send two mono channels to the buss hard panned left and right with the sidechain signal from a Send and the controlled signal from the channel out...), apparently something in the current VST spec makes this difficult.

                              The db-D Dynamics Processor plugin from db-audioware offers true sidechaining in SONAR.
                              doug osborne | my day job

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                              • Hey Doug, you do a pretty good "Craig"

                                Not sure what you mean by "solo isolate" as opposed to just "solo." To create a quick group, you ctrl-click on the little triangle in the upper left of the track heading.

                                The sidechain thing is much harder to pull off because of the way plug-ins are handled on tracks. I've often wanted this so I could, for example, have one track provide amplitude control over a different track. Angus at FXpansion came up with a really clever workaround for his vocoder plug-in way back when: a plug-in that sends a track's signal to another plug-in. I think he's off on to other things now, though...I wish he'd revisit that concept.
                                N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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