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  • #31
    Originally posted by Anderton
    Also, I believe that Firewire buses are inherently kinda noisy. Based on cranking up the mic pres in the Konnekt I get the impression TC has been pretty good about keeping noise out of the unit, but I would assume that data transfers to a hard drive would put just that much more "stuff" on the Firewire line.

    This is speculation, though, maybe Mike has the real story.


    Craig,
    The firewire buss and powersupply are galvanicly isolated this is not the case with many firewire interfaces that we looked at. This isolation prevents noise from the computer from entering the audio stream. From what I understand (I'll ask for clarification) this also helps prevent jitter and other distortion too.
    -Mike Martin
    Casio America, Inc.

    Comment


    • #32
      Okay, so it's not just my imagination...there's an actual reason why it sounds clean. Thanks for the reply.
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      • #33
        Hi guys,

        I have been tracking the Konnekt for ages. I was just waiting for a good review to show up first. Thanks for the Pro review idea. Some questions for Craig and TC...

        1.Quality of ASIO drivers at low latencies. Please state which host you used for this test. How low can you go before clicks and pops?

        2.Any WDM drivers? Any good?

        3.How would you describe the sound quality compared to the 1820M? As an example the 1820M has about 120db of dynamic range while the Konnekt 24D has 109db or so, or has this changed?

        4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?

        4a.If there are differences in the hardware (not just inputs or outputs) what are they?

        5.How long is the Firewire cable? The longer the better sorry I just have to ask

        6. Jitter levels? A recent review I read described the Saffire LE (105db dynamic range) as having a better or more focused sound than the 1820M (120db dynamic range). All subjective I know, but the reviewer thought that the reason was because of the low or *lower* level of jitter in the Saffire Le <250 picoseconds.

        What sort of Jitter levels does the Konnekt 8 have? Less than the Safirre Le?

        7. Any plans to allow the 24D plugs to run in a similar way to other VST plugs i.e as many as a CPU can take? The current limited options rule out a 24D purchase for me but a Konnekt 8 purchase is very likely.

        8. How easy is it to change buffer settings from within the Konnekt's user / software interface?

        9. Is their a really comprehensive comparison chart I can look at for the Konnekt 8 and 24D versions?

        Before you ask, yes I do like to make absolutely sure my purchases are what they claim to be

        If I have any more questions I'll let you know...

        Thanks
        http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com/splash.htm

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        • #34
          well, that's a pretty long list. Might as well throw another log on the fire...

          Do you have any comments on the headphone outputs and live monitoring facilities?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cmusicmaker

            3.How would you describe the sound quality compared to the 1820M? As an example the 1820M has about 120db of dynamic range while the Konnekt 24D has 109db or so, or has this changed?

            4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?
            My questions as well.
            "If Obama wins a second term I will leave the forum". - Visconti

            Comment


            • #36
              I'll get to the questions I can answer in a bit, but want to make a general comment about drivers and such.

              The latency you can achieve is a moving target. It depends on the processor speed, how much else you're asking the computer to do, and the sample rate (for a given amount of processor load, you'll have lower latencies at higher sample rates).

              For example, I have an Athlon dual core system and typically get "comfortable" latencies in the 5 ms range. If the stars are in alignment, I can sometimes get down to 3 ms. But when I tested out a Core 2 Duo computer recently, getting 3 ms was easy, and under more difficult conditions (e.g., more tracks, more soft synths).

              For the record, I'm using Sonar for these tests running a latency of 256 samples because that's the default. I'll push it later on and report back on what happens.
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              • #37
                I'll let Craig answer most of these since you're asking for an opinion but I'll take on a few of them.

                Originally posted by Cmusicmaker
                Hi guys,

                I have been tracking the Konnekt for ages. I was just waiting for a good review to show up first. Thanks for the Pro review idea. Some questions for Craig and TC...

                4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?

                4a.If there are differences in the hardware (not just inputs or outputs) what are they?


                4. Dynamic range and specs are the same. The I/O configuration and the lack of DSP are the only differences.

                4a. None, just I/O and DSP


                5.How long is the Firewire cable? The longer the better sorry I just have to ask


                I believe 5 feet. Craig do you have a measuring tape handy?


                6. Jitter levels? A recent review I read described the Saffire LE (105db dynamic range) as having a better or more focused sound than the 1820M (120db dynamic range). All subjective I know, but the reviewer thought that the reason was because of the low or *lower* level of jitter in the Saffire Le <250 picoseconds.

                What sort of Jitter levels does the Konnekt 8 have? Less than the Safirre Le?


                Here are the specs from the Konnekt 8 page on the TC website (specs for the 24D are indentical)

                Jitter Rejection Engine 43 to 193 kHz, jitter rejection at all rates
                Jitter Rejection Filter JET™ technology in TC DICE II
                DIO Interface Jitter < -3 dB @ 10 Hz, < -100 dB @ 600 Hz
                AD/DA Conversion Jitter < 1 ns peak, BW: 700 Hz to 100 kHz

                I'll see if our engineers have anything more to offer here.

                7. Any plans to allow the 24D plugs to run in a similar way to other VST plugs i.e as many as a CPU can take? The current limited options rule out a 24D purchase for me but a Konnekt 8 purchase is very likely.


                No. Unlike the PowerCore which has what I'd call dynamic DSP, the DSP in Konnekt 24D is fixed to do these specific effects.

                9. Is their a really comprehensive comparison chart I can look at for the Konnekt 8 and 24D versions?b]


                I'll try to put something together for you.

                -Mike Martin
                TC|US
                -Mike Martin
                Casio America, Inc.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Some comments on the 1820m and Konnekt 24D preamp specs: The 120dB quoted for the 1820m is for the line inputs, A-weighted. The equivalent spec for the Konnekt 24D is >111dB, also A-weighted. I don't consider that to be a serious difference, as other system factors (noise floor etc.) will degrade the dynamic range far more.

                  As to the mic pres, with both at minimum gain and A-weighted, the 1820m spec is >100dB and the Konnekt 24D, >109 dB. Although the Konnekt 24D has a bit of an edge, again, I don't consider this to be a huge difference.

                  As to the comparative sonic differences of the preamps, I already commented on that previously and included a graphic showing the difference. To summarize, the sound is very similar; the 1820m had a bit more midrange, but I think that's likely due to a different input impedance interacting with the dynamic mic. I couldn't hear any significant difference with a condenser.

                  I really do believe that technology has reached a point where within a given price range, mic pre quality is roughly equivalent, with slight quantitative rather than qualitative differences. Some pres might have a slightly different "character," but whether one "character" is better than another is a pretty subjective call that depends on what you're recording.
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                  • #39
                    Hi,

                    I'm new to this forum so first let me thank you for your excellent work Craig!

                    I'm very interested in buying this Konnekt interface and here are my questions:

                    1) Heating issues: I'm not really afraid of that but as the it will be my primary PC audio interface, could you (Mike) confirm me that it will not be a problem to have the Konnekt on about 24 hours/day (yeah, I rarely shutdown my computer...)?

                    2) Latency: Ok, the question was just asked and Craig answered it but here is another variation on the subject ;-)
                    I will mainly use the interface to record direct guitars with software amp sims so low latency is very important for me. i have no experience workin with a DAW and soft sims so I have no idea of the minimum latency required in order to work comfortably... Is the default 256 samples (6ms) ok for that kind of use or do I need to go lower than that?

                    I also have to tell you that my pc is based on a Athlon64 X2 4200+ and NForce4 MB (Asus A8N SLI Premium). I heard lots of horror stories about the NForce4 chipset for DAW's (issues with PCIE/PCI bridge) so maybe Mike may confirm me that the interface was tested with this chipset? I was planning to buy a PCIE Firewire card to avoid the PCIE/PCI bridge bottleneck to obtain better performance but I really don't know if it may achieve the desired results. Any thoughts on that?

                    3) Operating levels:
                    -is it possible to switch between -10Db/+4Db levels in order to connect to consumer as well as pro equipment?

                    - balanced/unbalanced I/O: in relation with the -10/+4 question, may I use unbalanced cables with those I/O's? I plan to use the main 1/2 output to connect the interface to my Hi-Fi amp/speakers so I need to be able to use unbalanced cables and (if I'm not mistaken) -10Db output levels.

                    4) Inputs 3/4: are they always in stereo mode or can I use 2 mono instruments on those inputs?

                    5) Fabrik C: having a good comp/limiter available on 1/2 inputs is nice but as those effects are after the A/D conversion, is it really useful in direct recording? Ok, I'm a noob so sorry for this obvious question but as I understand it, I will not be able to limit the entering signal before the AD conversion to avoid digital distortion if pushing the signal coming from my guitar. In fact, I plan to buy in the future a tube preamp (probably a Brick by GT) to color the guitar sound and it would be nice to sometimes push the preamp as far as possible and prevent the Konnekt inputs from being overloaded... So may I use the FabrikC for that or do I have to have an external comp/limiter? Hmm, maybe I'm not clear on that one so let me know...

                    6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?


                    Well, that's a lot of questions for you guys, so put another log on the fire and have fun ;-)

                    Thanks in advance for your answers and sorry for my bad english!

                    Francois

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      1.Quality of ASIO drivers at low latencies. Please state which host you used for this test. How low can you go before clicks and pops?

                      To "even the playing field," I opened up new projects with no other tracks or plug-ins. The following are the lowest latencies I could achieve with reliable results:

                      Cubase 4: 128 samples
                      Ableton Live 5.0.3: 128 samples
                      Acid Pro 6.0: 128 samples
                      Tracktion: 64 samples
                      Guitar Rig 2 (stand-alone mode): 128 samples
                      Sonar (ASIO): 256 samples
                      Sonar (WDM): 256 samples

                      As mentioned previously, this is all very system/project dependent.

                      2.Any WDM drivers? Any good?

                      See above. At least with Sonar, performance seemed equal to the ASIO drivers.

                      3.How would you describe the sound quality compared to the 1820M? As an example the 1820M has about 120db of dynamic range while the Konnekt 24D has 109db or so, or has this changed?

                      Please see previous posts, the figures you cited are not really for equivalent tests.

                      4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?

                      4a.If there are differences in the hardware (not just inputs or outputs) what are they?


                      Mike answered these questions.

                      5.How long is the Firewire cable? The longer the better sorry I just have to ask

                      It is 6 feet long (not five).

                      6. Jitter levels? A recent review I read described the Saffire LE (105db dynamic range) as having a better or more focused sound than the 1820M (120db dynamic range). All subjective I know, but the reviewer thought that the reason was because of the low or *lower* level of jitter in the Saffire Le <250 picoseconds.

                      What sort of Jitter levels does the Konnekt 8 have? Less than the Safirre Le?


                      I don't have a Saffire LE here, nor do I have the facilities to measure jitter...sorry! Hopefully Mike's information helped.

                      7. Any plans to allow the 24D plugs to run in a similar way to other VST plugs i.e as many as a CPU can take? The current limited options rule out a 24D purchase for me but a Konnekt 8 purchase is very likely.

                      Mike answered this.

                      8. How easy is it to change buffer settings from within the Konnekt's user / software interface?

                      Very easy. You just go to the System Settings screen (posted earlier) and select the buffer size from a drop-down menu. Whether the host program recognizes the change, or has to be re-started, is not the Konnekt's responsibility.
                      CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

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                      • #41
                        1) Heating issues: I'm not really afraid of that but as the it will be my primary PC audio interface, could you (Mike) confirm me that it will not be a problem to have the Konnekt on about 24 hours/day (yeah, I rarely shutdown my computer...)?

                        I'm not really sure that heat is an issue. Mike seems to think it gets hot, but maybe I'm just not working it hard enough because it's just barely warm right now, and it's been on for about five hours. I'd say the heat thing is a non-issue. I think whoever reported it getting so hot should borrow another unit from where he got the first one and see if the second one gets equally hot, enough heat to cook eggs sounds defective to me.

                        2a) Latency: Ok, the question was just asked and Craig answered it but here is another variation on the subject ;-)
                        I will mainly use the interface to record direct guitars with software amp sims so low latency is very important for me. i have no experience workin with a DAW and soft sims so I have no idea of the minimum latency required in order to work comfortably... Is the default 256 samples (6ms) ok for that kind of use or do I need to go lower than that?


                        I can tolereate 256 samples, but I find 128 ms to be much more comfortable for playing in real time.

                        2b) I also have to tell you that my pc is based on a Athlon64 X2 4200+ and NForce4 MB (Asus A8N SLI Premium). I heard lots of horror stories about the NForce4 chipset for DAW's (issues with PCIE/PCI bridge) so maybe Mike may confirm me that the interface was tested with this chipset? I was planning to buy a PCIE Firewire card to avoid the PCIE/PCI bridge bottleneck to obtain better performance but I really don't know if it may achieve the desired results. Any thoughts on that?

                        I don't know the answer to that, sorry.

                        3a) Operating levels:
                        -is it possible to switch between -10Db/+4Db levels in order to connect to consumer as well as pro equipment?


                        No, but the maximum input level for the line connectors is +13dBu, and +10dBu for the mic'instrument input with the pad activated.

                        3b) - balanced/unbalanced I/O: in relation with the -10/+4 question, may I use unbalanced cables with those I/O's? I plan to use the main 1/2 output to connect the interface to my Hi-Fi amp/speakers so I need to be able to use unbalanced cables and (if I'm not mistaken) -10Db output levels.

                        I'm using unbalanced cables with the inputs, and the output uses a ground sending design so presumably you can use unbalanced cables with the outs as well.

                        4) Inputs 3/4: are they always in stereo mode or can I use 2 mono instruments on those inputs?

                        You can use two mono instruments, but they are ganged together under one level control and one balance control. One mono instrument is the right of a stereo pair, the other the left of the stereo pair and there is no way I can see to turn the stereo into independent dual mono channels.

                        5) Fabrik C: having a good comp/limiter available on 1/2 inputs is nice but as those effects are after the A/D conversion, is it really useful in direct recording? Ok, I'm a noob so sorry for this obvious question but as I understand it, I will not be able to limit the entering signal before the AD conversion to avoid digital distortion if pushing the signal coming from my guitar. In fact, I plan to buy in the future a tube preamp (probably a Brick by GT) to color the guitar sound and it would be nice to sometimes push the preamp as far as possible and prevent the Konnekt inputs from being overloaded... So may I use the FabrikC for that or do I have to have an external comp/limiter? Hmm, maybe I'm not clear on that one so let me know...

                        You are correct that effects after conversion cannot prevent overloads to the converters, but that's the only significant limitation of using post A/D conversion effects. Compression, EQ, and reverb will all work pretty much the same before or after. But also realize that these days, the dynamic range and signal to noise ratio of input stages are pretty good -- it's not necessary to hit them as hard as in "the old days." In fact, many recordists using 24-bit systems treat -6 as 0 to gain some "headroom insurance."

                        6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?

                        That's a Mike question

                        C'est tout pour maintenant!
                        CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

                        Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                        • #42
                          [QUOTE]1) Heating issues: I'm not really afraid of that but as the it will be my primary PC audio interface, could you (Mike) confirm me that it will not be a problem to have the Konnekt on about 24 hours/day (yeah, I rarely shutdown my computer...)?

                          Mine at home on my desktop is one 24 hours a day, I'm running it buss powered and I rarely shut off my computer.

                          2b) I also have to tell you that my pc is based on a Athlon64 X2 4200+ and NForce4 MB (Asus A8N SLI Premium). I heard lots of horror stories about the NForce4 chipset for DAW's (issues with PCIE/PCI bridge) so maybe Mike may confirm me that the interface was tested with this chipset? I was planning to buy a PCIE Firewire card to avoid the PCIE/PCI bridge bottleneck to obtain better performance but I really don't know if it may achieve the desired results. Any thoughts on that?

                          My personal desktop is a similar system. I have a X2 3800 on a MSI K8N Neo4 platinum. Its NForce4 based like yours. It works like a champ. This the system that I've used the Glyph drive attaches as well. I admit I haven't tried the Glyph with Konnekt on my laptop yet.

                          6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?

                          Wow thats asking a lot. Fabrik C, Fabrik R and Assimilator total up to over $1000 retail (plus the price of a PowerCore). Pretty amazing value for an audio interface at this price.
                          -Mike Martin
                          Casio America, Inc.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The Konnekt 24D has associated plugins, the Fabriks are integrated and the Assimilator is bundled. The thing I like best about firewire and USB interfaces is the ability to move them from machine to machine. What happens to the plugs? Are they installed and registered on only one machine? How does the licensing work?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Craig and Mike, thanks a lot for your answers!

                              Originally posted by Anderton
                              2a) Latency: Ok, the question was just asked and Craig answered it but here is another variation on the subject ;-)
                              I will mainly use the interface to record direct guitars with software amp sims so low latency is very important for me. i have no experience workin with a DAW and soft sims so I have no idea of the minimum latency required in order to work comfortably... Is the default 256 samples (6ms) ok for that kind of use or do I need to go lower than that?

                              I can tolereate 256 samples, but I find 128 ms to be much more comfortable for playing in real time.

                              So it may be fine with , for example, GuitarRig in stand-alone, but may be a little less convenient with GuitarRig in Vst mode in a DAW app... I'll have to try!
                              Originally posted by Anderton
                              3a) Operating levels:
                              -is it possible to switch between -10Db/+4Db levels in order to connect to consumer as well as pro equipment?

                              No, but the maximum input level for the line connectors is +13dBu, and +10dBu for the mic'instrument input with the pad activated.

                              IMHO, it's a pitty we can't switch from -10Db/+4Db levels, as this product is not intended for pro's only!
                              Originally posted by Anderton
                              3b) - balanced/unbalanced I/O: in relation with the -10/+4 question, may I use unbalanced cables with those I/O's? I plan to use the main 1/2 output to connect the interface to my Hi-Fi amp/speakers so I need to be able to use unbalanced cables and (if I'm not mistaken) -10Db output levels.
                              I'm using unbalanced cables with the inputs, and the output uses a ground sending design so presumably you can use unbalanced cables with the outs as well.

                              Mike, could you confirm that we can use unbalanced connections for the outputs? In my case, as it is impossible to switch between -10Db/+4Db, it may be too "hot" to connect to my HiFi... Damn, I'll need to buy those fine studio monitors I was dreaming about for so long ;-)
                              Originally posted by Anderton
                              5) Fabrik C: having a good comp/limiter available on 1/2 inputs is nice but as those effects are after the A/D conversion, is it really useful in direct recording? Ok, I'm a noob so sorry for this obvious question but as I understand it, I will not be able to limit the entering signal before the AD conversion to avoid digital distortion if pushing the signal coming from my guitar. In fact, I plan to buy in the future a tube preamp (probably a Brick by GT) to color the guitar sound and it would be nice to sometimes push the preamp as far as possible and prevent the Konnekt inputs from being overloaded... So may I use the FabrikC for that or do I have to have an external comp/limiter? Hmm, maybe I'm not clear on that one so let me know...
                              You are correct that effects after conversion cannot prevent overloads to the converters, but that's the only significant limitation of using post A/D conversion effects. Compression, EQ, and reverb will all work pretty much the same before or after. But also realize that these days, the dynamic range and signal to noise ratio of input stages are pretty good -- it's not necessary to hit them as hard as in "the old days." In fact, many recordists using 24-bit systems treat -6 as 0 to gain some "headroom insurance."

                              In fact, I plan to record in 24-bit and will try to leave as much headroom as possible, at least 6Db, but I want to push the tube pre for the coloration (not push the Konnekt input stage...) so I guess that here too, a pad may be the solution... I agree that Comp, EQ will all work pretty much the same before or after AD conversion but maybe a Gate may be handy before the Reverb... Anyway, those included high quality effects are welcome and I'm sure they work great from the DAW!
                              Originally posted by Anderton
                              C'est tout pour maintenant!

                              C'est déjà pas si mal, merci à toi ;-)
                              Originally posted by Mike Martin
                              6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?
                              Wow thats asking a lot. Fabrik C, Fabrik R and Assimilator total up to over $1000 retail (plus the price of a PowerCore). Pretty amazing value for an audio interface at this price.

                              You're right Mike, it sounds like a great deal but hey, it never hurts to ask for more ;-)

                              So far, the only limitation IMHO seems the missing ability to switch between -10Db and +4Db so I'm not yet decided on the purchase.

                              Thanks again for your answers guys, I really appreciate!
                              Cheers,
                              Francois

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                So it may be fine with , for example, GuitarRig in stand-alone, but may be a little less convenient with GuitarRig in Vst mode in a DAW app... I'll have to try!

                                IMHO Konnekt won't be the limiting factor, it will be your processor speed. In other words, you wouldn't get significantly better results with a different interface.

                                It's a pitty we can't switch from -10Db/+4Db levels, as this product is not intended for pro's only!

                                It can accommodate lower level signals, just turn up the gain

                                In my case, as it is impossible to switch between -10Db/+4Db, it may be too "hot" to connect to my HiFi

                                Turn down the level in the applet.

                                C'est déjà pas si mal, merci à toi

                                De rien, mon ami!
                                CHECK IT OUT: Lilianna!, my latest song, is now streamable from YouTube.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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