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  • #61


    It's like taking a cross-country road trip: we may be driving the car, and we may have a good idea of which road to take, but if you see something cool, or need to take a pit stop, we're happy to stretch our legs and take in the sights you guide us towards



    Hello David. Let me start off by saying that I am a huge fan of Ableton Live and have been using the program since version 1. Like Craig, the magic of Live grabbed me right away and was an epiphany of tool-discovery.

    I'm probably more in the 'ultimate JamMan' section of the userbase, but I love the flexibility of Live and the ability to take a collection of clips and scenes assembled in Session view and form them into a linear piece using the Arrangement view. Many of the changes and improvements to Live have added depth and flexibility to the tool and features such as MIDI support, automation, racks, etc are all extremely useful.

    Having said that, there are a few features that I am personally very interested in seeing incorporated into Live. I'm curious if you have any idea whether or not these features are a part of the priority 'Wishlist' for future development. These features have continuity with what I sort of understood the 'original concept' of Live to be: an extremely flexible loop-based performance and creation instrument focused on manipulating audio samples.

    1 - Audio Overdubbing. Currently, you can overdub MIDI to MIDI clips, but you cannot overdub audio. This is limiting. An overdub recording mode for audio clips would add flexibility to Live as a loop-based composition tool.

    There are a number of plug-ins that allow users to approximate this approach with varying degrees of functionality; however, none of the solutions currently available offer the simplicity and efficiency of workflow that this enhancement would provide.

    2 - Setting Master Tempo via an Audio clip. It would be great if you could set Live's master tempo based on the tempo of a master audio clip. For example, you could begin recording a clip, play a two-bar phrase in 4/4, and enter playback mode. Live would then calculate the master tempo based on the something like 'master clip tempo mode settings', which would in this case be set to 2 bars 4/4.

    Thanks!

    Comment


    • #62
      I am considering Mackie Tracktion for what looks to be a very simple and straightforward program for recording, that offers a lot at a great price. I am wondering what opinion people have on this software compared to Live.

      It may make sense to have them both (because the performance aspect of Live doesn’t exist within Tracktion). But what about for just pure composing and recording – how do you think they compare?

      Comment


      • #63
        Responses (and more questions) from Ableton developer Stefan Haller:

        What I meant is the ability of Live to import a Quicktime movie, not slave to external timecode. I read the instructions in the Live manual, and it seems to indicate that setting the movie as the master makes the movie run at its own rate, (which would normally be 29.97 for me), and the audio would then be a slave to that rate.
        If my above statement is correct, it should work.

        That's correct; if the clip is set to "Master", it plays in real time (by adjusting the song tempo so that it is exactly inverse to the clip's warp markers). This has nothing to do with the clip's frame rate or timecode though; it also works for mere audio clips.

        1) Since there is no way to view the timecode in Live as 29.97, there's no way in Live to tell where you are with respect to movie time (SMPTE timecode). Is this correct?

        Do you really need 29.97 non-dropframe? If I understood it correctly, that's the format where the video's time code runs out of sync with the real time, i.e. at time code 01000 the elapsed real time is one hour, 3 seconds, 18 frames. As far as I could tell from browsing the web, this format is only used for short TV commercials that are less than one minute. Do you think we need to support it?

        For longer videos in NTSC you most probably want "30 drop-frame" as your time code format.

        2) I believe the only start time allowable is 00000. For TV and movie work, many Quicktime movies have burn in timecode, and they almost always start at 01000 or higher. If I am correct about this, it means that even if number 1 above were solved, there still isn't any way to make the live view of the SMPTE timecode match the burned in timecode in the Quicktime movie.

        That's a problem that we have on our list of things to do, but it's not easy to solve. Would it be good enough for you if we just offer an option to enter an offset for the time code for the whole arrangement?
        What if there is more than one video clip in the song?

        Do you only care about the time ruler in the arrangement, or also about the one in the clip view?
        David Cross
        Public Media Coordinator
        Ableton Inc.

        cross@ableton.com

        Comment


        • #64
          Hey Zero - thanks for the kind words

          1 - Audio Overdubbing. Currently, you can overdub MIDI to MIDI clips, but you cannot overdub audio. This is limiting. An overdub recording mode for audio clips would add flexibility to Live as a loop-based composition tool.


          I don't think it's very high on the list, but it brings up an interesting question: why do you need overdubbing when you could simply create another audio clip of the same length in another track? Is overdubbing a limitation, or is it not?

          2 - Setting Master Tempo via an Audio clip. It would be great if you could set Live's master tempo based on the tempo of a master audio clip. For example, you could begin recording a clip, play a two-bar phrase in 4/4, and enter playback mode. Live would then calculate the master tempo based on the something like 'master clip tempo mode settings', which would in this case be set to 2 bars 4/4.

          There is a way in Live 6 to have the an audio clip dictate a project's tempo, by using the [master] function inside of arrangement view. If I'm understanding your wish correctly, I believe that the wish for master clips in Session view may help fulfill this particular wish. That wish is pretty high on our list
          David Cross
          Public Media Coordinator
          Ableton Inc.

          cross@ableton.com

          Comment


          • #65
            Hello. Thanks for the responses. Please see my comments below.

            Responses (and more questions) from Ableton developer Stefan Haller:
            Do you really need 29.97 non-dropframe? If I understood it correctly, that's the format where the video's time code runs out of sync with the real time, i.e. at time code 01000 the elapsed real time is one hour, 3 seconds, 18 frames. As far as I could tell from browsing the web, this format is only used for short TV commercials that are less than one minute. Do you think we need to support it?


            29.97 dropframe AND non-dropframe are both required for general video composition in the USA. It is true that non-drop means real time does not match SMPTE time, but non-drop is still used for videos encoded by people in the film industry. In film, there isn't a requirement to have SMPTE match real time. Also, for commercials, it's so short that non-drop is more convenient because you don't have video long enough to drop frames anyways. By the way, I think that Live has the potential to be an EXCELLENT choice for composing music for commercials.


            For longer videos in NTSC you most probably want "30 drop-frame" as your time code format.


            30 Frames per second is not used for most professional video in the USA. I would still like you to support 30 fps in addition to 29.97 if possible though.


            Would it be good enough for you if we just offer an option to enter an offset for the time code for the whole arrangement?
            What if there is more than one video clip in the song?


            An offset is essentially the way my "other DAW" software does it. In MOTU DP, you set the start frame of the video. I personally don't work with more than one video per session. I think that app is more for people creating collages and slide shows, etc. Thus, an offset would be great for me, but may not be good enough for the other user types you mention.

            Do you only care about the time ruler in the arrangement, or also about the one in the clip view?


            Only supporting it in the arrangement would be acceptable to me.


            Please note that support for video composition is a "nice to have" in my opinion. Composers for video have LOTS of software anyways. For me, I can still use Live for video even if you do nothing else to support it. What your current support level means is that Live becomes a starting point for creating grooves, etc., but that the project has to go into a different sequencer before it is done. That is acceptable.

            Comment


            • #66
              Thanks for getting back with me on this stuff.

              function inside of arrangement view. If I'm understanding your wish correctly, I believe that the wish for master clips in Session view may help fulfill this particular wish. That wish is pretty high on our list


              I'm not familiar with the master function inside arrangement view but yeah, I think session master clip would do it based on your description of the master function.

              Comment


              • #67
                Hello. Thanks for the responses. Please see my comments below....

                Stefan says thanks
                David Cross
                Public Media Coordinator
                Ableton Inc.

                cross@ableton.com

                Comment


                • #68
                  I am considering Mackie Tracktion for what looks to be a very simple and straightforward program for recording, that offers a lot at a great price. I am wondering what opinion people have on this software compared to Live.

                  It may make sense to have them both (because the performance aspect of Live doesn’t exist within Tracktion). But what about for just pure composing and recording – how do you think they compare?

                  Instead of taking someone else's word for it, I'd suggest you play around with each demo. Fortunately, Live and Tracktion both offer demo versions so you can find out for yourself what's best for you.

                  Tracktion Demo: http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktion2/index.html
                  Live Demo: http://www.ableton.com/demo
                  David Cross
                  Public Media Coordinator
                  Ableton Inc.

                  cross@ableton.com

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    So David, what do you think? Does overdubbing audio to clips make sense in light of the applications I described?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Overdub functionality for audio clips would be outstanding... but I just had a dream on a plane this morning of a Live device named 'Looper II' with punchpoint recording length, overdub mode, and undo functionality... If I can see the GUI, it must be prophecy...

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        So David, what do you think? Does overdubbing audio to clips make sense in light of the applications I described?
                        Hello,

                        I'm Amaury from Ableton - I am part of the specification team and I also am taking care our improvement list, so I thought I could add to David's help here.

                        Your points about overdubbing audio are very valid. I would have some reserve about the first one maybe but we don't have to go to that discussion to prove that overdubbing audio is a useful feature for many usecase. That said, our improvement list is long, and we can never promise if or when a feature would make it to Live.

                        Don't hesitate if you have additional comments, suggestions, or questions. I'd be happy to comment and answer.

                        Kind regards,
                        Amaury

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Hi Amaury,

                          Thanks for the response. I thought of some more examples to illustrate the utility of audio overdubbing but it sounds like you're on top of it.

                          I'm sure that many users would enjoy the addition of audio overdubbing. There are other improvements I'd like to see implemented in Live but that's a big one, for me. Good luck with development!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Hi Amaury,

                            Thanks for the response. I thought of some more examples to illustrate the utility of audio overdubbing but it sounds like you're on top of it.

                            I'm sure that many users would enjoy the addition of audio overdubbing. There are other improvements I'd like to see implemented in Live but that's a big one, for me. Good luck with development!

                            Hi,

                            Again, I can't promise anything. We have many things to take care off, and we have to prioritize according to our resources and to other factors that are complex. But sure enough, I totally see your point.

                            Regards,
                            Amaury

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              amaury,
                              in your attempt to evolve live, please never forget its root of being a PERFORMING tool.
                              to be more specific, if you continue implement features from other audio RECORDING sequencers please never forget its a performing tool, never make it too complicated and cluttered...
                              i really enjoy my version and i really appreciate the clear tutorials and the great manual, something which is not often found with software.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                First off, I must apologize for not being more active in this thread due to a bunch of unforeseen (and hopefully finished!) circumstances.

                                Anyway, I met with Gerhard Behles at Messe and mentioned my wish of "gee, it sure would be great to be able to play the note range handles in a MIDI rack." He asked why I don't just use the Pitch MIDI plug-in, which can indeed restrict low and high note ranges. However, the problem I have with that is while you can freely adjust the lower note cutoff, the higher note cutoff adds to the lower note cutoff -- e.g., you can set the higher cutoff to be a certain number of semitones higher than the lower cutoff. So, if you change the lower cutoff note, you also change the higher cutoff note, whether you want to or not. So while this is good for cutting off the lower note (ideal if you want to get rid of a kick drum while leaving other drums in place) because you can simply set the high note to be as high as possible, it's not as flexible as what I would like to see.
                                Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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