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  • #46
    What's your favorite presets? I use # 10, 11, 18, 20 most of the time.

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    • #47






      Quote Originally Posted by Chumly
      View Post

      You may well be right as to the no concern about competition between the RR Strat and the VG Strat however I find it a bit tough to believe that someone would be so scared off by the presence of a 13 pin connector so as not to buy the VG Strat, but by the same token not be scared off by the modeling itself. I think it's another example of unnecessary dumbing down by marketers when you take into account the cost of the VG Strat.




      Well I've agreed 100% with everything you've said thus far Chumly, but I have to disagree with you here. There are maybe a handful of people on this forum (you and myself included) who are remotely interested in guitar synthesis or midi guitar. Modeling, on the other hand, has become much more prevalent, especially in the popularity of digital amp/cabinet modeling and effects. There simply aren't too many guitarists looking to play Hammond B3s on their guitar. They want variety in guitar-related sounds. Other than midi control and guitar synthesis with the 13 pin, you're only guitar-based options for use with 13 pin are Roland's VG series, and at a grand for the newest unit there are much cheaper options out there for guitarists looking to simply have different guitar modeled sounds. (Variax, for example). I see Fender's VG Strat simply as a response to Line 6's Variax series, though they missed the boat with regards to flexibility and editing capability compared to Variax.



      As for the VL2 and VL4, I agree that it's disappointing that they don't have midi, and as such I won't be buying because I don't want to clutter the stage with more stuff either, but I still believe that somewhere down the line we'll be seeing a midi-capable rackmount VL unit. But I'm guessing that will be a couple of years away.

      Comment


      • #48
        Craig A.,



        I'd be interested in your review of the VL4 pitch correction vocal quality.



        I suspect the reason the pitch corrected main vocal sounds "chorused" and slightly electronic is that it is electronic...it's a Unison Corrected Voice...not your original.



        No matter how low you set the correction, your entire voice still "goes through the processor" and emerges as a UC voice.



        Result: kind of electronic and "faky". This works fine for many types of songs, such as rock or alternative rock, etc.



        But many of my tunes are quieter, simpler tunes where the vocal needs to sound natural and warm and "acoustic". I just cannot get the pitch correction to correct me and pass the voice through without a little electronic edge. Kind of like a slight chorus with a very short "slap delay"...giving kind of a "tiled bathroom reverb" sheen to it almost.



        What do you find, Mr. Anderton?
        http://www.reverbnation.com/GlennGalen

        Comment


        • #49






          Quote Originally Posted by neuro-feed
          View Post

          Well I've agreed 100% with everything you've said thus far Chumly, but I have to disagree with you here. There are maybe a handful of people on this forum (you and myself included) who are remotely interested in guitar synthesis or midi guitar. Modeling, on the other hand, has become much more prevalent, especially in the popularity of digital amp/cabinet modeling and effects. There simply aren't too many guitarists looking to play Hammond B3s on their guitar. They want variety in guitar-related sounds. Other than midi control and guitar synthesis with the 13 pin, you're only guitar-based options for use with 13 pin are Roland's VG series, and at a grand for the newest unit there are much cheaper options out there for guitarists looking to simply have different guitar modeled sounds. (Variax, for example). I see Fender's VG Strat simply as a response to Line 6's Variax series, though they missed the boat with regards to flexibility and editing capability compared to Variax.



          As for the VL2 and VL4, I agree that it's disappointing that they don't have midi, and as such I won't be buying because I don't want to clutter the stage with more stuff either, but I still believe that somewhere down the line we'll be seeing a midi-capable rackmount VL unit. But I'm guessing that will be a couple of years away.




          If tech-phobia plus traditionalism are in fact ingrained into the modern guitarist, they may be a doomed species as it relates to the evolution of modern music, if so it would be an irony considering it was modern electronics that gave the guitar its popularity in the first place!

          Comment


          • #50
            Hey guys...

            can anybody upload a video or audio file to see/listen the vl4 in action??



            Mine is backordered and I would like at least to see it in action.



            Thanks



            Omar
            Originally Posted by VÃ****ctor


            ..Si te separas, espero que no, avÃ****same podÃ****amos vivir juntos, eso si, sin mariconeo...









            Originally Posted by artiem


            The truest indicator of one's character is how he acts when there are no consequences.




            SPAM: FT/FS

            Comment


            • #51






              Quote Originally Posted by Michael Angel
              View Post

              Hey guys,



              Anderton wrote, "I use the VL4 not to replace band members, but to fill out and enlarge my own voice."



              I am very interested in doing the same thing. Setting aside the use of the VL4 for creating traditional harmonies, what setting have you found useful to simply make your singing sound better live?



              By the way, Anderton, would you mind elaborating a bit on how you are using the VL4 to fill out and enlarge your voice?



              Thanks.




              Sure! My experience so far has been with the VL2, but I'm "porting" what I've learned over to the VL4.



              What really works well for my voice is to do a 3rd above harmony and a unison voice, then mix it more or less in the background -- the harmony is NOT at the same level as my voice. This makes my voice sound a whole lot bigger, especially with a little bit of delay as well.
              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

              Comment


              • #52
                Thanks Anderton.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Hoping anyone who has had the time to experiment with the VL4 would tell me what they think about the Tube Pre-amp versus the Harsh pre-amp?



                  What are your thoughts on the Persona lead effects?



                  Also, how do you find the Alternate musIQ compares with the Main musIQ?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I mainly participate at the Acoustic Guitar Magazine forum. I posted this this morning:



                    Here you go...bunch of stream of consciousness thoughts in no particular order:



                    We had our first rehearsal with the VL4 on Saturday. Bottom line impression: Keeper.



                    The thing has 50 different presets. If you find the right one, the results can be amazing! But it also has a bunch of settings that result in laughably unnatural sounds. It really is an instrument in its own right. You have to use it properly to get the right sound.



                    The drummer in our band thought it kicked ass. The lead guitar player thought it sucked. Then again, he is something of a gear snob (no, he is the ultimate gear snob and won't accept that a DigiTech unit could ever be the equal of the Helicon unit he prefers).



                    Our sound guy put it like this: The harmonies sound 10% synthetic. I think that's about right. The utility of this box depends a lot on what your options are. If you have three or four guys who can all sing and nail their harmony parts, then you don't need it. But if you don't have a cadre of pro singers, this thing works. And the sound quality is certainly "good enough" for live work. Its not going to cut it in the studio, of course. But in the studio you can just overdub your harmonies and not bother with it.



                    Another thing worth mentioning is that this box does a lot for you even without the harmony stuff. It has all the standard vocal processing stuff (compression, reverb) as well as some "persona" effects you can apply (such as thickening your voice) that really work. Like most things with the VL4, some of these really work, some sound cartoonish.



                    I played around a little with the pitch correction...Not sure I like it. If you use it, there is going to be a lot of configuration needed to make it sound right. There are three parameters you can set: The "Window" defines how 'off' you have to be before the PC kicks in, the "Rate" defines how quickly the PC responds and the "Amount" defines how far the correction goes (eg, if you set the "amount" to 50%, and sing a note that is 20 cents flat it will adjust it to 10 cents flat).



                    On the presets with PC turned on, digitech has those three set at 99, 30 and 99, respectively. My experience is that that is WAY too aggressive...you can easily hear your voice bounce between two notes a half step apart as the PC tries to hone in on it. I had better luck setting the "window" to a much lower value. Something more like 40 or 50. I left the "rate" at 30, and set the "amount" to about 65. That seemed to be more natural. If you can actually hear the PC working, you won't like it. It has to be subtle enough to be unobtrusive. Even after all that screwing around, I'm not sure I like it. If you can't sing on-pitch, then you can't sing. This might save you from the occasional clunker, but it won't make a singer out of you if you can't do it in the first place.



                    One thing I didn't try but will is setting the "scale" parameter for the PC. All the presets are based on the chromatic scale, so it will adjust to the nearest half step. But you can, for example, specify "A major" of "D harmonic minor" or any other scale. That limits the number of target notes for the PC, and may yield a more natural result. One thing I'm surprised is missing is any integration between the PC and the MusiQ system. It seems like a simple thing to configure the PC to where it will always target one of the notes in the chord you are currently playing. Wonder with DigiTech didn't do that...



                    Some of the presets are REALLY fun: dial in #16 ("Big Guy") and the next thing you know you are BB King. That one sounds stunningly natural, and it is a hoot to sing through.



                    Speaking of singing through, one of the more challenging things about this box is learning to ignore the harmonies and only listening to your own voice. At first, I would have trouble because I would try to chase one of the harmony voices. The result was not good.



                    I would prefer it it had an output for unprocessed vocals, so you could run that into your monitor mix and only send the harmonies to the mains. But I understand why they didn't do it that way. This thing is designed to be simple enough for the solo singer/guitar player to use, without the benefit of a sound guy or even a separate mixing board. If you are playing solo, this thing actually has all the mixer you need built in (eg, "vocal", "harmony" and "guitar" levels). The VL4, a mic, a guitar and a simple amp and you have a complete coffee shop setup.

                    Comment


                    • #55






                      Quote Originally Posted by Omaha
                      View Post

                      I mainly participate at the Acoustic Guitar Magazine forum. I posted this this morning:



                      Here you go...bunch of stream of consciousness thoughts in no particular order:



                      We had our first rehearsal with the VL4 on Saturday. Bottom line impression: Keeper.



                      The thing has 50 different presets. If you find the right one, the results can be amazing! But it also has a bunch of settings that result in laughably unnatural sounds. It really is an instrument in its own right. You have to use it properly to get the right sound.



                      The drummer in our band thought it kicked ass. The lead guitar player thought it sucked. Then again, he is something of a gear snob (no, he is the ultimate gear snob and won't accept that a DigiTech unit could ever be the equal of the Helicon unit he prefers).



                      Our sound guy put it like this: The harmonies sound 10% synthetic. I think that's about right. The utility of this box depends a lot on what your options are. If you have three or four guys who can all sing and nail their harmony parts, then you don't need it. But if you don't have a cadre of pro singers, this thing works. And the sound quality is certainly "good enough" for live work. Its not going to cut it in the studio, of course. But in the studio you can just overdub your harmonies and not bother with it.



                      Another thing worth mentioning is that this box does a lot for you even without the harmony stuff. It has all the standard vocal processing stuff (compression, reverb) as well as some "persona" effects you can apply (such as thickening your voice) that really work. Like most things with the VL4, some of these really work, some sound cartoonish.



                      I played around a little with the pitch correction...Not sure I like it. If you use it, there is going to be a lot of configuration needed to make it sound right. There are three parameters you can set: The "Window" defines how 'off' you have to be before the PC kicks in, the "Rate" defines how quickly the PC responds and the "Amount" defines how far the correction goes (eg, if you set the "amount" to 50%, and sing a note that is 20 cents flat it will adjust it to 10 cents flat).



                      On the presets with PC turned on, digitech has those three set at 99, 30 and 99, respectively. My experience is that that is WAY too aggressive...you can easily hear your voice bounce between two notes a half step apart as the PC tries to hone in on it. I had better luck setting the "window" to a much lower value. Something more like 40 or 50. I left the "rate" at 30, and set the "amount" to about 65. That seemed to be more natural. If you can actually hear the PC working, you won't like it. It has to be subtle enough to be unobtrusive. Even after all that screwing around, I'm not sure I like it. If you can't sing on-pitch, then you can't sing. This might save you from the occasional clunker, but it won't make a singer out of you if you can't do it in the first place.



                      One thing I didn't try but will is setting the "scale" parameter for the PC. All the presets are based on the chromatic scale, so it will adjust to the nearest half step. But you can, for example, specify "A major" of "D harmonic minor" or any other scale. That limits the number of target notes for the PC, and may yield a more natural result. One thing I'm surprised is missing is any integration between the PC and the MusiQ system. It seems like a simple thing to configure the PC to where it will always target one of the notes in the chord you are currently playing. Wonder with DigiTech didn't do that...



                      Some of the presets are REALLY fun: dial in #16 ("Big Guy") and the next thing you know you are BB King. That one sounds stunningly natural, and it is a hoot to sing through.



                      Speaking of singing through, one of the more challenging things about this box is learning to ignore the harmonies and only listening to your own voice. At first, I would have trouble because I would try to chase one of the harmony voices. The result was not good.



                      I would prefer it it had an output for unprocessed vocals, so you could run that into your monitor mix and only send the harmonies to the mains. But I understand why they didn't do it that way. This thing is designed to be simple enough for the solo singer/guitar player to use, without the benefit of a sound guy or even a separate mixing board. If you are playing solo, this thing actually has all the mixer you need built in (eg, "vocal", "harmony" and "guitar" levels). The VL4, a mic, a guitar and a simple amp and you have a complete coffee shop setup.






                      This is what i wanted to hear.



                      Thanks for the inside info, and I am still looking forward to get mine (is backorder)



                      Any demos that you can upload?



                      Thanks!



                      Omar
                      Originally Posted by VÃ****ctor


                      ..Si te separas, espero que no, avÃ****same podÃ****amos vivir juntos, eso si, sin mariconeo...









                      Originally Posted by artiem


                      The truest indicator of one's character is how he acts when there are no consequences.




                      SPAM: FT/FS

                      Comment


                      • #56






                        Quote Originally Posted by fuzzball
                        View Post

                        Some great info here!




                        Just wanted to add I've tried to use a standard 9 volt wall wort (e.g. BOSS adapter) with the unit using the "One Spot DigiTech adapter" pug to allow you to connect into DigiTech units. The unit does power up but, get this, no vocals come out from the unit. It seems odd to me but that's what happens.



                        The DigiTech wall wort is rated 18 Watts and I guess it needs it since the other adapters I've tried are closer to 8 watts. My hope was that I could connect the VL 2 into my daisy chain with my other effects and not have two actual wall worts. I did not try this on the VL 4 but the VL 4 uses the same adapter as the VL 2.



                        So, in case anyone is thinking of trying the same thing, it doesn't seem to work.



                        I also want to note that the harmony tweaks you can make on the VL 4 do help the sounds (as opposed to the VL 2). Much better with the extra two voice options. Not to say the VL 2 is bad - just that you get an expanded range and it pays off well to my ears.



                        The "Big voice option" and those effects that alter your own voice bother me a little bit since it is pretty obvious in a set of songs that it isn't "you". I would prefer to be able to get that effect on a harmony (the Arnold sound that is on the TC Helicon). I tried on the weekend to do that with just harmony and couldn't get it to come out. The blend then between your own voice and the deep Barry White, if you like, would work better to me than an altered main vocal. If anyone can get me there on the harmony adjusts I'd like to know. The octave down doesn't seem to be available on all four selections and I think it would need it to cut through.



                        Finally, I suspect that DigiTech will have to offer a midi on a unit sooner or later. The Helicon moving to an add-on harmony tracker with its unit, means that competition is out there. I would think DigiTech may want to up the anti a bit if Helicon is now going to compete with guitar chord harmony. If the VL units take off and work for them, then it would be in their interest to go further. We'll have to stay tuned.
                        Keith (The Whiners)
                        Sample using the VL 4 in a LIVE scenario ... Hear The Whiners using the VL and TC Helicon Harmony G units combined for harmony in recordings at The Whiners Web

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I agree with Omaha on the sounds of the PC, doesn't really do much for me. I really don't care to tweak this and that and spend alot of time messing with the thing. I bought it for the ease of use and that's what it was advertised for. I just find that there are some songs that sound great with the presets and then again, some don't, so I just move on and find another one that does. Most if not all of the duets from the 60's and 70's sound fine if you search for the right preset. I use it for coffee house gigs alone with a mic guitar and amp and that's good enough to make people think the sound is full.

                          I don't feel the need to go searching through all the edit parameters, takes too much effort and doesn't make that much difference. Just my .2 cents. I can get a Barry White voice out of it for Can't Get enough of your Love baby BTW.

                          Comment


                          • #58






                            Quote Originally Posted by SoloArtist
                            View Post

                            LATEST BACKORDER NOTICE ON THE VL4!



                            Here we go again. I just got another backorder notice from MF saying my VL4shippment is being pushed ahead by 30 days! They're not even giving me an actual date anymore.



                            The last promised time was October 26th. They said my order would be filled with their last invoice. Anybody else get this notice from MF or know what's going on? I did get the $399.00 price and they also sent a $20.00 discount coupon which I applied to this order so I'm not angry but a bit frustrated.



                            Thanks,



                            SoloArtist






                            I ordered my VL4 on Friday 9/21 (also at $399.. price good until 9/30/07 if ordered from the August catalog listing) from Musician's Friend and was quoted an October 5th date on the phone. The e-mail Backorder notice I received that same evening confirms the October 05 due date verbally quoted me on the phone.



                            MF has a checkered history with me... I order a lot of stuff there but a high percentage never goes through, is cancelled or the B/O situation goes on for so long that I cancel in frustration. Once, I had a $450 guitar amp on B/O from them for almost 2 months during a time that the manufacturer said they had units on the shelf ready to ship. I cancelled the order and THEN they shipped it anyway! I should have made them eat it but I wanted the amp.



                            Since I am a "predatory" buyer, I put up with a lot of crap most people wouldn't in order to ensure I get a good deal on something I may not absolutely need but definitely want to experiment with. The VL4 falls into this territory for me as I already own a VL2 so I am in no hurry.



                            My VL2 was a "predatory pricing" deal as well... when the VL2 was first announced I found that B&H Photo was accepting pre-orders at $249.00. I ordered it and waited 3 months to get it. A few days after I ordered it the price went up to the $299 everyone else was asking for it. Apparently B&H mistakenly priced the unit $50 below MAP and had to re-price it. To their credit, they sold it to me at the ordered price without any whining or weaseling.



                            Does the VL4 have separate "Weasel" and "Whine" harmony controls?

                            If so, MF better watch out... They weasel and I'll whine in 4-part Harmony!
                            Visit my Music Man amplifier site!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Here is a quick thing I dashed off to show you how the VL4 sounds.



                              This is Preset 18 Eaglets 2, on a country/folk tune:



                              http://www.GlennGalen.com/VL4.mp3
                              http://www.reverbnation.com/GlennGalen

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Thanks Glenn.



                                Keep it up!

                                Comment













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