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STEINBERG MR816csx Interface and CC121 Controller - now with conclusions


Anderton

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Maybe you've seen the video on HC's home page about this duo, or maybe you saw the video I did at the 2008 Frankfurt show where these were introduced. In any event, I was intrigued the moment I saw them. I come from a "hardware studio" background, and while I've certainly embraced computer-based recording, I've never been able to cut the umbilical cord to hands-on control.

 

To me, a mix is a performance and moving the faders as the spirit moves you is an essential part of the experience. And there are plenty of boxes with moving faders, thank you. But what about those other controls on a console - the EQs, for example? Sure, there are boxes where you can assign things, but wouldn't it be better if a software company teamed up with a hardware company so the integration would be painless and wouldn't require any more thought than pushing a button on a console?

 

Well, that's what these devices claim to do. As a marriage between Steinberg software and Yamaha hardware, coupled with Yamaha's fixation on using hardware and software to form a truly integrated system, the MR816csx and CC121 have an impeccable pedigree. So really, the question is whether the pair lives up to the hype - do they really simplify the process of using Cubase? Do they really let you stay in right brain, creative mode instead of having to constantly deal with menus and mouse clicks? Fortunately, this is a Pro Review, so we'll find out.

 

But first, a word about scheduling. I've actually had these units for several weeks but was not able to start the review until now for personal reasons - I had a freak accident back in December that set me back a bit. I'm okay now, and thankfully there were no permanent ramifications, but I really wasn't at full capacity for a couple weeks. Now, this is the kind of thing you'd never know if this was a print review :) but this is a Pro Review, it's real-time, and that's what happened.

 

Another issue is that I hate starting a Pro Review just before a trade show, because of all the video obligations I have for HC that usually require me editing 24/7 for two weeks after the show, so that the videos go online in a timely fashion. But this time, I'm going to NAMM armed with a PC Audio Labs laptop and the 64-bit version of Vegas, on the theory that I'll be able to get quite a few videos done while at the show. If so, then I'll be able to get back to this review fairly quickly after NAMM ends. If not, and I get pulled away from editing in the evenings, then that will look like not the best decision in the world. But as I said - this is a real-time review, and we'll let the chips fall where they may! I think it's important to start this review now, because there's a lot of buzz about these units, and with good reason.

 

Okay, that's enough self-indulgent background. Let's open the boxes and get started.

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The MR816csx is the interface. As with most pro reviews, there's little point in re-hashing specs because they're available on the web. I must say Steinberg has done an outstanding job of explaining what the MR816csx is all about; there are videos, PDFs, audio examples, lots of diagrams, etc. Thanks to them doing all that work, we can concentrate on the user experience :thu:

 

The first attached image shows the MR816's front panel. There are eight inputs, with two of these brought out to the front panel; the one on the extreme left handles Mic, Line, or Instrument, and the next one over to the right accepts Line or Mic. However, note that these are front panel connections for convenience - the rear panel has six more Mic/Line combo jacks (high quality Neutriks, by the way).

 

As to outs, the front panel has two headphone jacks. The rear has two TRS inserts, eight 1/4" outs, word clock in and out, two FireWire ports (this should be interesting! FireWire interfaces have had a checkered history here in Pro Review-land), S/PDIF in/out, and ADAT optical in/out. I'm always happy when I see ADAT I/O, as I still have quite a few devices in my studio that use that protocol. Good.

 

When you open the oversized box (I think not even UPS on a bad day could kill this), there's not only the MR816 but you also have a FireWire cable, two installation discs (Cubase AI4 and MR Tools), manual, and a power supply that looks like it was designed by someone who was told he'd lose his job if it ever failed - it's big. It's not a wall wart but a "line lump," so you plug one cable into the wall, and one into the MR816. The power supply connector is a substantial, locking type.

 

Now let's open up the CC121.

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Surprise: The CC121 is quite compact, and obviously intended to sit on your desktop without hogging it - see the attached image. It's actually a very nice example of industrial design; I'd call it downright "stylish." The CC121's landing page at Steinberg.net is as helpful as the one for the MR816, and the product view page gives a very good short-form summary of the controls. Note the long-throw fader on the left: This is a full 100mm fader, not one of those little 60mm jobs.

 

The CC121 uses USB (as nothing specifies that you have to use USB 2.0, I'm going to assume 1.1 works - I can't test that with my system, as all the USB ports are 2.0), and the MR816 (as we've already noted) is FireWire-based. I think this was an excellent design decision for several reasons:

 

1. FireWire is better at sustained throughput for audio than USB.

2. You have no possibility of interference between the two competing for bandwidth on the same bus.

3. The CC121 can be bus-powered, however, you can use motorization on the fader only if it's powered by the included AC adapter. Note that the PreSonus FaderPort works the same way, so this is not a limitation of the CC121, but a limitation of using a power-hungry moving fader with a USB device.

 

The CC121 reminds me a bit of the days when keyboards didn't have numeric keypads, so if you were into spreadsheets and such, you would buy a separate numeric keypad and have it sit off to the side of your QWERTY keyboard. The CC121's footprint makes it well-suited to be your "music control keypad," but nothing on it feels cramped.

 

As to pricing, list price on the CC121 is $499, but it's available for considerably less. List price on the MR816csx is $1,499, but again, you can find deals that shave several hundred dollars off the price. There's another model, the MR816x, which costs less; it appears pretty much identical to the MR816csx but lacks DSP-based compression and EQ (however, both models have DSP-based Yamaha reverb).

 

So the combo is going to set you back around $1,500, which while not terribly expensive, is not exactly cheap, either. What determines the level of value is whether that $1,500 buys you not just good hardware, but good workflow.

 

And there you have the (very) basics. The next test is to see what kind of roadblocks lie ahead...audio interfaces usually have a surprise or two up their sleeves, but hopefully installation will be uneventful so we can get right into using the interface.

 

One more thing: Yamaha's Motif XS, the subject of another Pro Review, is also part of the Steinberg/Yamaha "advanced integration" family so we'll finally get a chance to see how it works not only with Cubase AI, but whether the MR816 or CC121 come into play as well.

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As much as I like control surfaces, let's get the interface going first. By the way, I probably should mention that there is no MIDI interface on the box. This is a curious omission, given Cubase's deep MIDI editing - until you look on the back panel and try to figure out where you would have put the connectors! So if you use a MIDI controller, factor some kind of MIDI interface into your budget if you don't have one already.

 

Like most software-based journeys these days, the experience begins with going to the company web site and looking for updates. Of course, my version of Cubase 4 is up-to-date (V 4.51) because I use the program quite a bit, and there were no newer versions of the MR Tools software, so it was time to open the manual and get started.

 

I decided to install into my 8-core Intel Windows XP machine from PC Audio Labs. The MR816 manual is unusual as it gives a "Preparing to Install" section that double-checks things like your IEEE1394 not being disabled. Yamaha is very good about this kind of thing, and that apparently carries over to the Steinberg line. The instructions even tell you the proper way to bail out in the middle of an installation - something I haven't seen in any other manual.

 

This is all a good sign. Let's see what happens next...

 

Okay, CD-ROM in the drive...double-click on Setup.exe...a message comes up saying to turn off power to all IEEE1394 devices. Hmmm...that might be good advice when installing software for any FireWire peripheral. I'll have to remember that.

 

Watch the little progress bars...so far so good...actually three pieces of software are being installed: The Yamaha Steinberg FireWire driver, Steinberg MR Editor, and MR Extensions...

 

Uh-oh! Nasty error message! Okay, don't panic. Hmm, Windows Defender is on - that could be the problem. Most of the time I remember to turn off any kind of anti-virus stuff before doing an installation, but this time it slipped my mind (I admit it, I'm a little impatient to get this puppy going). Fortunately, the Yamaha installer set a System Restore point, so I'll go back to that, turn off Defender, and try again.

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Okay, let's try again.

 

Run Setup...check...installation proceeding...check...new hardware found...check...everything seems fine, except there's one additional step that didn't happen: Installation of the WDM audio driver.

 

The manual says to check for entries under Sound, Video, and Game Controllers, and while I'm seeing two of the three entries I'm supposed to see, I don't see "Yamaha Steinberg FW WDM Audio." And, while the System tray shows a little icon for choosing the Control Panel and MR Editor, the control panel says "Device Not Found."

 

Then I remembered a section in the manual saying that when installation is complete, if*a message appears that says to restart, one should restart the computer. No such message appeared, but restarting with a Windows machine is like trashing preferences or repairing permissions on a Mac - a cure-all. Let's reboot, and see what happens.

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Well, wouldn't you know it: After restarting, the "Found New Hardware" screen appeared, the WDM Audio drivers were installed, everything showed up under "Sound, Video, and Game Controllers," and let's check the system tray...

 

Bingo! The first image shows the Control Panel screen, and the second image shows the MR Editor. I had to reduce the image slightly, as image uploads are restricted to 900 pixels in width, and the Editor is just under 1000 pixels. So if the graphics look a little squished, don't blame Yamaha - in the real world, they look just fine.

 

Note to Yamaha/Steinberg: Consider adding an update to the manual saying to turn off all anti-virus programs before installation, and to restart if the WDM driver install window doesn't appear.

 

Once the Editor was up, I must say the "virtual knobs" looked a little small - they must be hard to adjust, right? Whoa!! This is cool! When you click on the knob, it expands into a larger, high-resolution knob. This is so nifty I just have to do a quick video to show you what I mean. I'll be back in a few minutes.

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Here's how the knobs react when you click on them. Trust me, it's worth checking out the video...the first video is in WMV format, and the second video is in QuickTime format.

 

Well, that's it for now because the installation procedure took a little longer than expected and I have some other obligations to fulfill. More to come...and feel free to throw in your own comments, or ask questions!

 

(Incidentally, and quite off-topic, can anyone explain to me why the QuickTime video doesn't look as good as the WMV one, even though the QT file size is almost twice as big?)

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Good start so far!

 

 

It would be great if you could also review it's cousin, the Yamaha n12 and show comparisons, strengths etc between them.

 

 

Definitely agree. Would be interested in seeing whether this combo makes the ITB experience similar to the OTB experience of using the N12.

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Hey guys - I'm really looking forward to getting back to this myself!! I only have two more NAMM videos to go and then it's back to pro reviews. Thanks for your patience...but I gotta say, it takes a while to slam out 70+ videos, even though I was in fact able to do 11 of them while I was at NAMM...!

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For all of you on the fence with this unit, take the plunge......it really is a great all-around unit. I've had it for about 2 months now & love it. The second driver is super stable (I had issues with the first release), the pres are the best I've heard in any interface I've ever had (MOTU 828, Konnekt 24D, then the Studio K48, both of which gave me too many headaches) and the integration is superb. If you want to know more just message me or reply to this post.:rawk:

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Okay, I'm back...finally! Hope you liked all those NAMM videos in the Theater :)

 

As I'm really curious about the mic pres, I'm going to plug in a mic and start recording a vocal. By the way, one change since the first part of this review is I'm now running XP SP3 instead of SP2. Probably won't make a difference, but I mention it for completeness.

 

Let's see how idiot-proof this is. I'm opening Cubase AI4 (V4.5.2), and hopefully, the interface will just show up and everything will be wonderful...I won't look at the manual unless I have to.

 

Okay, a screen shows up that asks whether I want to use the Yamaha Steinberg FW ASIO driver as the master ASIO driver. Hmmm...well, I'll say no for now, but I won't check the box that says "Do not ask this again." There may be situations where I'll need to try out AI with the Motif XS and need to use some other driver or something.

 

With Cubase AI open, I went to the Device Setup and for ASIO drivers, there was indeed an option for Yamaha Steinberg FW ASIO - no problem. Seems like I'm good to go.

 

So I open a project, insert a mono track for the mic, and check this out: The MR816csx panel starts flashing at me! It's the Quick Connect buttons, which are above the mic pres. Now, how did it know I was going to hook up a mic? Presumably, it's because I specified a mono input. Anyway...

 

Time to start recording...done. But here's what's really cool about the Quick Connect thing: When you click on a track, then select an input's Quick Connect button, you've connected that input to that track. If you select a different track, then press the Quick Connect button, you're connected to that track instead.

 

There's no specifying the input you want to select, no worrying about whether you're hooked up to the right interface input or not....just click, select, go.

 

In a way, it's like "reverse composite recording." Unlike composite recording, where you record a bunch of tracks then whittle down the best bits to one track, here you have one input that you can basically record anywhere, into any track. I'll admit that I've lost quite a bit of time during my life by troubleshooting input connections. Is the mic plugged into the patch bay? Is phantom on? Is the track connected to the correct input? Do I have the driver for that input connected? All those issues are gone with the MR816csx. Like, gone.

 

Pretty impressive so far, I'll come back after dinner and do some more on the review. But already, I can see where this is going...

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When you install the MR816csx tools, there are several templates made available, as shown in the first image. Note that you don't have to use these templates; they're just there to give you a starting point if you want one.

 

So, I called up the Vocal-Instrument Recording 1 template to see what that involved. It opened up with two mono tracks, three stereo tracks, and the VST Audio Channel Settings for Channel 1 open and ready to go (second image). All the Quick Connect buttons start off lit, as well.

 

After determining that the whole Quick Connect thing worked, I thought I'd try a quickie project to see if it really did improve workflow. I created an instrument track, and called up Cakewalk's Session Drummer 2 to provide the "glorified metronome." Then, I plugged my Gibson Dark Fire guitar into input 1, set it to Hi-Z (and it is indeed high-Z; the pickups sounded much fuller and brighter), and for a guitar plug-in, added a Peavey Revalver Mk III Vox AC30-type amp sound. I then plugged a dynamic mic into the second input so I could do vocals, and used a Live 6 GearBox plug-in to apply vocal processing to my voice (I made a preset for GearBox that really flatters my voice, so I use it a lot).

 

I have to say it was very easy to do overdubs and harmonies: Pick track, click on Quick Connect button, done. (Well, done except for adding plug-ins within Cubase if needed - the "AI" part of Cubase AI isn't smart enough yet to read your mind and insert the plug-in you want.)

 

There are two things about the Quick Connect scheme that make life even easier. First, you can connect to multiple tracks at once. This is something I often do for parallel effects. The second is that it's impossible to get lost, because if you want to know which input connects to which track, when you click on a track, the Quick Connect light for the input that's connected to the track flashes four times. Even better--and this shows someone was definitely thinking of the end user--there's about a half-second delay between clicking on the track and the start of the flashing. So, you can look at the screen, find the track, click on it, then look over at the MR816csx and it will still be flashing.

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Before calling it a night, it's worth noting how the MR816csx handles +48V phantom power. First of all, it really is +48V (+48.2, to be exact). This isn't always the case with interfaces; I've measured phantom power that's as low as +34V in some bus-powered interfaces. As the MR816csx has a real power supply, it has no problem delivering the appropriate voltage.

 

Second, each of the eight inputs can have +48V power individually. With many interfaces, you can activate +48V only for particular inputs, or input groups (e.g., ins 1-4 and/or 5-8). Of course, the MR816csx's approach is much more flexible.

 

So where are the phantom power switches? There's only one, along with clever ergnomics. If no input has phantom power, the +48V button is not illuminated. If you want an input to have phantom power, you hold down the +48V button and hit the appropriate channel's Quick Connect button. You can do this for as many channels as you like.

 

After your assignments, the +48V button remains illuminated to let you know phantom power is being applied to at least one input. If you press the +48V button, the Quick Connect button for any channel with phantom power lights up. In this situation the Quick Connect button is a toggle, so if you hit a lit Quick Connect button, it turns off and removes +48V power. And that's the deal with +48V.

 

There's lots more to cover, and I'd like to check out the "morphing" processing next...I've always been intrigued hearing about it at trade shows, now I get to try it.

 

It's early in the review, but it's already clear that the MR816csx would be extremely applicable to a solo studio with a couple mics, some instruments, something like a drum machine or keyboard with stereo line outs, etc. You could have all these inputs set up and ready to go at once (and take advantage of the front panel jacks for mics 1 and 2 to swap out different mics); then when you're recording, just click a track and push a button to assign your sound source of choice to Cubase.

 

Oh, one last thought: Just in case it's not clear, you can use programs other than Cubase with the MR816csx; it shows up like any other interface, and you can take advantage of many of its features. However, integration on the level of connecting to individual tracks from any given input is restricted to use with Cubase 4.5.1, Cubase AI 4.5.1, or higher.

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Craig, one of the "issues" that I read about this unit is that, yes, you can monitor with the REVX reverb in the monitor path during tracking, which is normal, but, you cannot use the same REVX on playback. Huh ?

You have to have a seperate instance of another, different plug-in reverb on playback because there is only one instance of the REVX and the REVX currently cannot be routed into the signal path for both talent monitor and playback from the recorded track at the same time.

Can you confirm ?

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Craig, one of the "issues" that I read about this unit is that, yes, you can monitor with the REVX reverb in the monitor path during tracking, which is normal, but, you cannot use the same REVX on playback. Huh ?

You have to have a seperate instance of another, different plug-in reverb on playback because there is only one instance of the REVX and the REVX currently cannot be routed into the signal path for both talent monitor and playback from the recorded track at the same time.

Can you confirm ?

 

 

I will test to confirm, but using hardware plug-ins instead of software does present limitations as well as advantages. The two main limitations of hardware are that 1) you can instantiate only one instance (this makes sense; it's not like instantiating another instance puts another DSP chip in the unit) and 2) you can't do non-real-time bounces, for the same reason you have to bounce in real time if going through an external processor of some kind.

 

I'll see if Yamaha has somehow managed to circumvent the laws of physics, but I suspect my statements above apply. I'll also see if there's any way of putting the REV X in a Cubase aux bus, which would be very useful. Or maybe someone from Steinberg has an answer?

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Hi Craig,

 

One of the things I like about Cubase is that you can do a fast audio mixdown.

Now if you use fx in an external hardware like TC Electronic Konnekt 24D then this is NOT possible and you have to use real time audio export.

 

Do you know if Steinberg has found a way around this with the RevX so that you can use it at fast audio mixdown?

 

Cheers,

 

Mats N

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First of all, it really is +48V (+48.2, to be exact). This isn't always the case with interfaces; I've measured phantom power that's as low as +34V in some bus-powered interfaces.

 

 

Craig, good to know that the MR816csx delivers the goods in the voltage dept. of its phantom power circuitry.

 

But what did you use to measure it? (And the other units in your studio, for that matter.) Is it simply a matter of taking a RadioShack voltmeter and inserting the probes into the ground and positive-phase pins/sockets (1 and 2, respectively) of the unit's mic input? Or to the pins/sockets of an XLR cable connected to the unit? What voltmeter do you use/recommend for such a task?

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Craig, good to know that the MR816csx delivers the goods in the voltage dept. of its phantom power circuitry.


But what did you use to measure it? (And the other units in your studio, for that matter.) Is it simply a matter of taking a RadioShack voltmeter and inserting the probes into the ground and positive-phase pins/sockets (1 and 2, respectively) of the unit's mic input? Or to the pins/sockets of an XLR cable connected to the unit? What voltmeter do you use/recommend for such a task?

 

 

I just use a voltmeter I picked up at Home Depot - a Sperry DM-4100A. I wouldn't recommend this unit for work with musical electronics, but it's great for around the house testing and is pretty much indestructible.

 

As to measuring, your assumption is correct: I measure the voltage differential between pins 1 and 2. I'd probably get a more accurate reading it I measured it under load, with a mic attached, but I think the no-load measurement is "close enough for rock and roll."

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Got the following email from Steinberg:

 

Greg Ondo our Senior Steinberg North America GURU :) created the following document that we have posted on the www.steinbergnorthamerica.com website. You may find this useful.

 

http://steinbergnorthamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/mr816_application_guide1.pdf

 

The DSP FX (morphing compressor channel strip and REV-X Reverb) can be used on input (tracking) or during playback (mixing) but cannot be launched at the same time. If one wants to use this during playback, they needs to change the settings to External FX found in the Control Panel with Cubase or Nuendo. The FX can be utilized as an insert, FX channel, etc.

 

I need to confirm this, and I am testing now as I type, but I do believe the FX processing found in the MR series can bounce process in non-real-time. Please allow me to confirm this.

 

I've encouraged anyone from Steinberg who wants to chime in with comments, tips, corrections, or whatever to please do so. I always enjoy the manufacturer interaction aspect of Pro Reviews, I learn a lot that way :)

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