Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

25661509

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Thank you Steve. That is one of the tech specs I wanted.
    MIDIme

    Comment


    • #17
      Using the JamHub assumes the wearing of headphones. This is what makes your music “less disturbing” to outsiders and keeps the mix and volume—two separate things, and both controllable under the JamHub—manageable in your own ears.



      But are there other uses or advantages? Yes, as I found out in my acoustic-guitar duo setup this weekend.



      A friend came over to jam on Saturday. We typically sing a couple of songs in harmony, and then I show him some guitar moves and new songs. He’s a school teacher and a singer/songwriter-type, and though he has an acoustic-electric (a Yamaha FGX730), he rarely plugs in. I don’t think he’s changed the 9V battery since he bought the guitar.



      I wanted him to try the JamHub because I thought it would be a novel experience for him. But it also simulates a studio-recording environment, and this was instructive—for both of us.



      First of all, if you’re not used to headphones, it can take a moment to get oriented. I forget this, but my friend reminded me in words and deeds. Once he adjusted, though, he was thrilled to be hearing his voice with stereo reverb. Because the sound was coming over headphones instead of from across the room, he was able to lower his head and adopt a more intimate delivery. He seemed to really tune in to blending more than when we face off in my living room. If you’re feeling shy about a new song or your abilities to perform it, the JamHub can actually bolster your confidence.



      For simplicity, I put his vocal mic in a different section from his guitar. “Number 1 is your vocals, Number 2 is your guitar,” I told him. Now, the JamHub allows both instrument and vocal to be plugged into the same section, with separate level controls and effects on the vocal mic. But here, I had "sections to burn" so I did it this way.



      When we were through, I asked him what he thought. He said some interesting things. He liked hearing his voice and guitar more upfront, because he said it helped him concentrate and he could hear his voice with greater clarity. He absolutely loved the reverb. (I warned him that reverb was addictive.) He said that it made the experience a little more formal, like being in a recording studio rather than two guys in a room, but he rather liked that, and thought it helped him focus. I offered that it was good technique to learn to be on mic and to listen to your guitar over a monitor instead of just acoustically, and he agreed.



      On the flip side, he said it was a relief when the headphones came off because his ears got sweaty. I conceded the truth of this, and noticed that in my own use, I often adjust the cans, lift them off momentarily, etc., and otherwise let my outer ear breathe. Noobs have to learn this.



      But then he said the most interesting thing of all: He said he wished my guitar was a little softer, that he sometimes had trouble hearing his own. Despite my explicit instructions at the beginning, he simply forgot to adjust the mix as we started playing. Once in a while he tweaked his own vocal mic, between songs, but he either forgot or didn’t realize he had control over the whole mix. Note to self: when using the JamHub with people unfamiliar with mixer-type operations, encourage frequent tweakage. If they’re not fiddling, they’re not getting the full benefit of the JamHub.



      The full band rehearsal is two days away. I’ll have to prep for that, as the guys don’t know I’m using them as guinea pigs. So I’ll need four sets of circular over-the-ear headphones and as many headphone extension cords.



      And I must remind the guys to tweak liberally. And to remove the cans when they step back to grab their beverage. Not that they’ll remember that last bit. …
      Jon Chappell
      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
      Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

      Comment


      • #18
        Any reason high quality in ear plugs wouldn't be "as good as" high quality over the ear headphones? I realize audiophiles and music engineers will have some advanced theories to draw from, and that would be welcome information. I'm also very interested in real life experience from those of you who have studio experience. The thought behind my question is "for practical purposes" for discerning musicians using a jamhub.



        Thanks to everyone for helping me get closer to making my mind up.
        MIDIme

        Comment


        • #19






          Quote Originally Posted by MIDIme
          View Post

          Any reason high quality in ear plugs wouldn't be "as good as" high quality over the ear headphones? I realize audiophiles and music engineers will have some advanced theories to draw from, and that would be welcome information. I'm also very interested in real life experience from those of you who have studio experience. The thought behind my question is "for practical purposes" for discerning musicians using a jamhub.




          I'm sure Jon can speak to this, but I assume decent earbuds would work just fine, and some might even help keep out more of the ambient noise. My current faves are the Monster Cable Turbine Pro earbuds, which are absolutely phenomenal but unfortunately, have a price tag to match (the Turbine Pro Gold phones list for about $300). You'd probably need an extension cable, though, as most earbuds are designed more to plug into something that's in a pocket or shirtpocket.



          BTW I'm also glad to see this review, I was wondering if it worked out in practice as well as it does in theory.
          N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

          Subscribe, like, and share the links!

          Comment


          • #20






            Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
            View Post

            I'm sure Jon can speak to this, but I assume decent earbuds would work just fine, and some might even help keep out more of the ambient noise. My current faves are the Monster Cable Turbine Pro earbuds, which are absolutely phenomenal but unfortunately, have a price tag to match (the Turbine Pro Gold phones list for about $300). You'd probably need an extension cable, though, as most earbuds are designed more to plug into something that's in a pocket or shirtpocket.



            BTW I'm also glad to see this review, I was wondering if it worked out in practice as well as it does in theory.




            To be perfectly honest, I hadn't considered earbuds, simply because I don't use them, and because I have enough sets of over-the-ear cans to service up to four musicians + myself. I use either AKG 240 DF's or K271 Mk II's as my personal sets, and I have various other quality cans--AT-M50's, etc.--to go around.



            Craig's right, of course; earbuds are shorter (my K271's have a 10-foot cord), necessitating an extension cable. But in-ear monitors are commonplace for live performance now, even in high stage-volume situations. So this should be fine.



            This is slightly off-topic from the functionality of the JamHub (I do want to keep things germane here), but perhaps Steve or others can weigh in here, as it speaks to the gestalt of the JamHub experience.
            Jon Chappell
            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
            Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

            Comment


            • #21






              Quote Originally Posted by JamHubSteve
              View Post

              Hi Chumly, your solution is exactly what I thought too when I started to think about the silent rehearsal studio concept, but as I dove into it soon I realized that it could be done much better, and for less money, with a device designed specifically for the task.



              For example, you can't create a unique stereo mix (and level) for each musician and have a global effects engine, and offer a remote for people stuck behind their gear (like a drummer) with any assembly of conventional gear that I found. And believe me, I looked for months and months and months!



              The original JamHub proof of concept was made by taking an assortment of mixers (8 Tapco mixers), cables and a custom made switching/splitting box and soldering them together into a new configuration and then mounting this on a 2-foot by 4-foot shelf/board ... and the whole thing cost me $700 in mixers, cables and parts like tie wraps, Velcro and two power strips for the 8 mixer power supplies. And that design didn't have effects in it, nor the capacity of the BedRoom model ... which streets for $299 and fit's in a backpack. Also, it was tough watching the band fumble around trying to make quick, fine adjustments to their mix with the proof of concept. With the final JamHub, it's easy for me and my bandmates to make adjustments on the fly ... there are no "extra" knobs to worry about, just look at your section and tweak ... super easy.



              I thought it would be a "simple" thing to build at first, but once I got into it, I realized that using conventional gear to get there was not possible. You simply can't make an easy to use, easy to set up, easy to transport, fully functional device with existing gear ... at any price. So we decided to create something designed optimally for the task of silent rehearsals so that we could bring the cost down, make it portable and make it simple to use.



              I hope that helps!

              Steve




              I've only done this with a duo: eDrummer, backing tracks, me on guitar / guitar synth and both of us singing, using a Mackie 1604 VLZ providing four separate sub-mixes usable as independent monitor mixes or as (the usual) effects sends, however to give the eDrummer ease of independent monitor mix control I gave him his own Mackie LM-3204 as a sub-mixer.



              The headphone amps were integral to the Mackie 1604 VLZ and the Mackie LM-3204. The Mackie 1604 VLZ was (of course) the mains mixer as well. The eDrums were stereo sub-mixed prior to sending to the Mackie 1604 VLZ.



              To the best of my recollection there was not anything that he or I could not have in our monitor mix independent of the other, nor was the eDrummer's own sub-mixer absolutely essential (just a lot more convenient and flexible).



              Basically it was our live setup without any of the mains. We both used IEM's for practice and for live, and the eDrummer played to a click that (naturally enough) only he would hear.



              I was putting together a much smaller version of the same for convenient silent practicing at his house but we never stayed together for more than a few years. Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't recall any problems getting what we wanted in our IEM's and the mains.

              Comment


              • #22
                I received a couple of PM's questioning the shape of the JamHub. Specifically, "Why is it curved like a watermelon slice?"



                Well, the reason it looks more like a slice of watermelon than a Sicilian pizza (that's what they call the rectangular version of pizza in the northeastern U.S., anyway) is because this angles the sections out in a fan shape. Instead of a straight line that favors only head on, perpendicular viewing, the fan shape (out to about 160 degrees, or not quite an entire semi-circle) makes line-of-sight viewing more favorable for musicians standing in a rehearsal space.



                In fact, the further out you stand from the unit, the more space you have between you and other musicians while maintaining the optimum, perpendicular view to your particular section. The more musicians you have, the further out you'll need to stand (unless you like rubbing shoulders and getting smacked in the face with the bass player's headstock).



                For example, look at points A and B, which could be two musicians standing close to the unit. Then look at point C and D, which would be the same two musicians maintaining their straight-on view, but further back, presumably to accommodate another musician in between. Obviously, the distance between C and D is much greater than between A and B, and this equates to how far apart the two musicians are from each other while keeping the (optimum) viewing angle constant. Certainly there's a geometric term for this principle, and I bet Steve knows it!



                Jon Chappell
                Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  This looks like a great review.



                  For all those who don't understand the big deal about it, I will say that it is indeed possible to replicate most of what the Jamhub does, you just need a lot more money than the price of admission for this unit. I think the next least expensive way of having this much control for this many performers is to use a digital mixer. The cheapest one with this many stereo outs is probably the MOTU 896mk3. Plus you have to add a headphone amp with individual inputs. That's a total cost of $1200 if you can find everything for cheap.



                  JP

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hi Jon,



                    I've lost a few posts in this thread ... can we assume they are gone forever given the recent downtime at HC? I'll recreate them if that is the case, no worries.



                    Thanks,

                    Steve
                    www.JamHub.com

                    Comment


                    • #25






                      Quote Originally Posted by JamHubSteve
                      View Post

                      Hi Jon, I've lost a few posts in this thread ... can we assume they are gone forever given the recent downtime at HC? I'll recreate them if that is the case, no worries.Thanks, Steve




                      I apologize, Steve. I've emailed tech support about this issue. Honestly, I think perhaps the path of least resistance is to simply repost, and I'm hoping you have your comments backed up in a text file of some sort. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
                      Jon Chappell
                      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                      Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                      Comment


                      • #26






                        Quote Originally Posted by jpleong
                        View Post

                        This looks like a great review.



                        For all those who don't understand the big deal about it, I will say that it is indeed possible to replicate most of what the Jamhub does, you just need a lot more money than the price of admission for this unit. I think the next least expensive way of having this much control for this many performers is to use a digital mixer. The cheapest one with this many stereo outs is probably the MOTU 896mk3. Plus you have to add a headphone amp with individual inputs. That's a total cost of $1200 if you can find everything for cheap. JP




                        JP, Please see post #12 for JamHub designer Steve Skillings' articulate response to the question of "creating JamHub functionality with off-the-shelf gear." I'm glad you're enjoying the review.
                        Jon Chappell
                        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                        Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          [We working on restoring some lost posts since the outage. One of them includes JamHubSteve's discovery of the ideal shape for the JamHub.]



                          Because of the JamHub's curved shape, I noticed that it's very easy to "tune in" to your specific Section and tune out the others--assuming your standing roughly on-axis to it.



                          Here's an example: Let's say I'm in Section 2, because of the way the band normally assembles onstage. To my left stands one musician (who takes Section 1), to my right is the rest of the band (Sections 2-6), except the drummer, who takes the R Section at the 120 position, facing the back of the unit. (But he's using a SoleMix Remote, shown in Post #15, so he doesn't have to worry about reading the controls upside down.)



                          Here's what I see, from a psycho-visual perspective:







                          Steve's explanation (to be re-posted soon) gives the more studied, empirical approach as to why this works, but I'm here to tell you my impressions from just playing with the thing.
                          Jon Chappell
                          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                          Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                          Comment


                          • #28






                            Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                            View Post

                            I'm sure Jon can speak to this, but I assume decent earbuds would work just fine, and some might even help keep out more of the ambient noise. My current faves are the Monster Cable Turbine Pro earbuds, which are absolutely phenomenal but unfortunately, have a price tag to match (the Turbine Pro Gold phones list for about $300). You'd probably need an extension cable, though, as most earbuds are designed more to plug into something that's in a pocket or shirtpocket.



                            BTW I'm also glad to see this review, I was wondering if it worked out in practice as well as it does in theory.




                            Here's the problem with earbuds and extension cables, which I discovered last night while trying to use this system: The extension cable tugs directly on your ears, unless you create an elaborate support system for the cable so that it doesn't hang freely from the JamHub to your ears. Circumaural headphones (the over-ear kind) distribute the weight between the headband and the entire circumference of the large ear cups; nothing pulls directly on the ear opening, and you don't even notice the cable.



                            I like earbuds and use them often (more than headphones). But using the JamHub seems to be a good case for using cans.
                            Jon Chappell
                            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                            Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The JamHub has stereo input jacks for each of its sections. For keyboards, audio devices (e.g., MP3 players), and drum machines, this is easy: you just put your stereo (TRS) 1/4" plug in the hole and go.



                              For guitars, basses, and other instruments that normally use a mono plug (typically, a 1/4" TS), you need to make your signal stereo. Here's an excerpt from the manual:









                              You can create a stereo signal from a mono source in a few of ways.



                              The easiest way is to simply use a stereo cable, connect one end to the headphone out of your amp (or other headphone-equipped processor) and plug the other end into a JamHub input. Doing this with an amp has the additional benefit of defeating the speaker. (Remember, we want to practice silently here.)



                              Another way is to plug straight in with a normal guitar cable, using the mono-to-stereo adapter, which is included in the box (see above reference in the manual excerpt). This is a good solution for acoustic-electric guitars, where you don't want to bother going through a preamp first.



                              If you have a multi-effects, you can use the headphone out (as described above) or use a stereo Y cord. Plug the separate splits of the Y cord into the Left and Right outs of the processor, and plug the single TRS stem into the JamHub input.



                              JamHub provides quality accessories for this. You can provide your own of course, but in the interest of completeness, here's a shot of the stereo headphone extension cables and the stereo cables -- two items you'll definitely need in some numbers to operate the JamHub.







                              Note the colored plastic rings in the photo on the right, which are included in each box. You put these on the cable ends, and it helps color-code the inputs with the performer. A nice touch!
                              Jon Chappell
                              Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                              Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                              Comment


                              • #30






                                Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
                                View Post

                                Here's the problem with earbuds and extension cables, which I discovered last night while trying to use this system: The extension cable tugs directly on your ears, unless you create an elaborate support system for the cable so that it doesn't hang freely from the JamHub to your ears. Circumaural headphones (the over-ear kind) distribute the weight between the headband and the entire circumference of the large ear cups; nothing pulls directly on the ear opening, and you don't even notice the cable.



                                I like earbuds and use them often (more than headphones). But using the JamHub seems to be a good case for using cans.




                                I use extensions with my earbuds all the time. The way I get around this is two-fold:



                                1) The earbuds cables have an adjustable (usually sliding) split point that I tape in-place to the point where the intersection of the Y is touching my skull. This equalizes the "pull" of the cable between the two earpieces.



                                2) I loop the extension through my belt loop and then connect it to the earbuds jack. This places the strain of the extension on my pants instead of my ears. This doesn't work when I wear my pajamas, though... I have recently switched to using lavalier microphone clips at the extension-barrel (female) end to make my life a little less loopy...



                                JP



                                ps- So, I have to ask... why the use of Star Trek: The Next Generation fonts?

                                Comment













                                Working...
                                X