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  • #46






    Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
    View Post

    I'll be curious to see what you think of the reverb when you get it. It really sounds good to me, but as we all know, reverb is pretty subjective...I tend to favor the smooth/transparent/airy type more than the "you can hear the reflections" type.




    I didn't get to fool around with the FX much but they didn't instantly offend me unlike the FX on some other boards. They are certainly "good enough" for live use and might even be "great". They will shortly change the FX to be insertable and that should get interesting .

    Comment


    • #47
      BTW I set up an unofficial user's forum for this mixer here:

      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PhonicS16

      Comment


      • #48






        Quote Originally Posted by RoadRanger
        View Post

        There is also no button to defeat the FX between songs so the talent can chat up the audience. I've suggested that they let you re-assign the "main" "on" button to that function as I find that redundant to the fader right under it. Maybe they'll also allow the six buttons under the display to be re-assignable as they presently only duplicate the touch screen buttons directly above them .




        Hey RoadRanger - thanks for sharing your experiences, and also, for being "fair and balanced" in your comments. I'm sure Phonic is taking notes



        Regarding the effects thing, there's an "all effects off" button in Sonar X1 that I've found REALLY useful in the studio. I can definitely see where this would be great for live performance. I don't know how much latitude Phonic has in terms of making updates (e.g., remaining space in ROM) but it's encouraging that the mixer will continue to evolve.



        I'll be checking into your user group from time to time. You might want to include a link to this review, too
        Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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        • #49






          Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
          View Post

          I'll be checking into your user group from time to time. You might want to include a link to this review, too




          Way ahead of you :

          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PhonicS16/links



          BTW I did do some more critical listening of the 'verbs and am quite pleased with them. Yous studio guys are more demanding I'm sure and mostly use plugins on your DAWs these days? But for anyone doing "live to two track" recording or otherwise mixing down on this mixer I can't imagine a nicer hardware FX unit . It even makes my Nady SP1 talkback microphone sound good - and MF basically paid me to take it with one of their micstand/microphone bundles a few years back that was less than the stand alone (which is what I wanted to buy) .

          Comment


          • #50
            Thanks for the link. It would be great to get some other owners in here so you won't have to feel so alone



            The reverb was a real surprise to me. Frankly, it sounds better than a lot of plug-ins. Usually, I would expect reverb in a unit like this to be "here's a reverb, yeah it's not that great but what do you expect in a mixer? Now go away." But that's not the case at all.
            Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

            Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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            • #51
              "...and there was much rejoicing in the land..."



              I plugged a $30 analog stereo RCA to digital S/PDIF RCA converter into the AES/BDU input of this mixer and it works! I just used a plain mono RCA to XLRM cable between them. I guess the "proper" way to do this is to use an unbalanced to balanced impedance transformer but they are quite expensive and I read that just the cable usually works fine and so it does. I was a bit concerned that I would have to clock the mixer off the AES/BDU input which is a bit dangerous as far as the board having audio dropouts if the input clock wasn't solid (see lack of "proper" connection above) but the mixer seems to do bitrate conversion on the input? It works fine if I use the internal clock of 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz or the "Digital" source - which I confirmed is from the AES/BDU input by unplugging it and losing lock. My converter outputs at 48 kHz so I'll leave the board on 48 kHz internal clock just because . My $30 converter has neither word clock input nor output so I can't do a "proper" clock hookup that way. Oh, and using the internal 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz clock makes the AES/BDU source crackly or choppy respectively - but I have no intention of using either of those rates live so a non-issue to me.



              Link to $30 converter:

              http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300582370286

              And the seller so you can find it once the listing expires:

              http://stores.ebay.com/JJ-SHOPPER-WEBSTORE

              Make sure you get the analog to digital one and not the digital to analog - they sell both and they look and are priced identical!



              Anyways I'm quite happy about this as it lets me input my break music this way and frees up two channels for the stage so I now have 15 (one is still used up for the talkback) - the same channel count as a MixWiz or Mackie 1604. It would be nice if you could feed the AES/BDU source into the auxes for testing purposes, to send tracks to the monitors, and so you can use an aux fed sub but the way it is is no worse than the two analog mixers mentioned above do it. As I mentioned in previous posts I did have this board set up to use the internal EQ as a crossover for an aux fed sub system but I'll have to go back to using an external crossover - no big deal to me.

              Comment


              • #52
                Thank you for the RoadRanger Report. It's been my experience that S/PDIF and AES/EBU are interchangeable in some gear but not in others, so I'm glad the S16 falls into the former category. It does seem overall that if the S16 has the option to be tolerant or picky, it tends to land on the tolerant side of things.
                Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                • #53
                  Hi Craig, I am a follower of your work for years, I always find very interesting your reviews.

                  Mi questions are:

                  What would be the best mixer for use in my commercial /project studio?

                  Which of these models has the best balance between quality, durability and performance?

                  PHONIC SUMMIT 16 (u$s 3000 in my country)

                  Presonus StudioLive 16-4-2 (u$s 2900 in my country)

                  A&H ZED R16 (u$s 2800 in my country)

                  Usually I record and mix bands, soloists, jingles, etc and also use midi and VSTi everyday.My DAW is SONAR 8.5

                  I am currently trying to sell my 8 buss analog console and I have a Yamaha 03d with adat expansion card and M-Audio FW1814, My idea is to replace all this with a new mixer and optimize my studio with latest equipment.

                  Thank for your time.



                  Merco

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                  • #54
                    Another question:whit a firmware update this mixer works at Midi control? the answer from Phonic tell me this but ........they say: " MIDI control thru Firewire/usb......" its real?

                    I like this consol maybe i 'm buying it,or maybe its time to wait and see....?



                    TIA



                    Mercophon

                    Comment


                    • #55






                      Quote Originally Posted by MERCO
                      View Post

                      Another question:whit a firmware update this mixer works at Midi control? the answer from Phonic tell me this but ........they say: " MIDI control thru Firewire/usb......" its real?




                      My understanding is that the "new" S16 will have that capability - it's unclear whether they will add that to the firmware of the "present" Summit/S16 ? That would be much appreciated! It will require a special driver on the PC or Mac - I don't think they will offer some sort of USB to MIDI cable?

                      Comment


                      • #56






                        Quote Originally Posted by MERCO
                        View Post

                        Hi Craig, I am a follower of your work for years, I always find very interesting your reviews.

                        Mi questions are:

                        What would be the best mixer for use in my commercial /project studio?

                        Which of these models has the best balance between quality, durability and performance?

                        PHONIC SUMMIT 16 (u$s 3000 in my country)

                        Presonus StudioLive 16-4-2 (u$s 2900 in my country)

                        A&H ZED R16 (u$s 2800 in my country)

                        Usually I record and mix bands, soloists, jingles, etc and also use midi and VSTi everyday.My DAW is SONAR 8.5

                        I am currently trying to sell my 8 buss analog console and I have a Yamaha 03d with adat expansion card and M-Audio FW1814, My idea is to replace all this with a new mixer and optimize my studio with latest equipment.

                        Thank for your time.



                        Merco




                        Unfortunately, I have not had an opportunity to work with the A&H or PreSonus 16-4-2 mixers, so I can't really make a comparison. To complicate matters further, what I've heard from people who own these products is that they're all satisfied. So, I think it really comes down to analyzing the features of these mixers and thinking about what's most appropriate for your studio and your particular needs. For example, if Sonar is the centerpiece of your studio, being able to do MIDI control would be important if you wanted to be able to mix "in the box." On the other hand if your intention is to bring out stems and do analog summing, then the right mixer would depend on your audio interface - if for example it has dual ADAT outs, then you would need a mixer with dual ADAT ins.



                        Another consideration is FireWire vs. USB. The ZED has FireWire sound card capabilities, StudioLive has FireWire but more inputs than the ZED, while the Phonic is the only one which offers FireWire or USB.



                        All these little differences will influence your decision. Any of these mixers are good products, it's just a question of which feature set addresses your needs in the most complete way.
                        Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                        Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                        • #57
                          RoadRanger mentioned setting up a "basic live performance scene" so I it seemed like now would be a good time to explain Scenes, which are part of the Utility menu.



                          A Scene lets you save the current settings of particular channels, aux masters, group masters, multis, and main. For example, suppose you've tweaked channels 1-4 for four vocalists, and they're the stars of the show so everything is referenced to them. You can save just those four channels as a scene, which locks in the settings for those channels (a scene memorizes channel select, fader levels, on/off, panning, EQ, dynamics, effects, aux sends, delay, and routing). Then when you set up, you can vary the levels and settings of the other channels based on how the vocalists are sounding in that particular room.



                          You can also select and de-select all channels. Selecting all channels saves time if you want to save the mixer state as a scene.



                          Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                          Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                          • #58
                            Moving on into the Utilities section, let's check out the Naming screen. Here you can name the input channels and multi outputs, with names up to 9 characters long. However, as far as I can tell, these names are mostly for reference as the only place they appear is on this screen - if you go to fader view, for example, you don't see the names show up as part of the channels.



                            Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                            Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                            • #59
                              The final Utility screen is the test tone generator. This produces pink noise, as well as sine waves at 100Hz, 1kHz, and 10kHz, with the level variable from -50dB to -10dB. You can assign the test tone to the Aux Master, Group Master, and/or Main output, as well as assign to multiple destinations simultaneously.



                              However, you cannot send the test generator through an individual channel. Although this would be of limited usefulness compared to sending through the outputs, I could see a situation where you'd want to send pink noise through an input channel just to make sure it's active, and so you could monitor expected bus destinations and confirm that the noise is arriving there as well.



                              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Link does grouping, with four color-coded groups (A-D). You select the group, then enable the channels you want grouped; offsets among faders are preserved. However, one problem I have is that the grouping does not preserve a ratiometric grouping characteristic when turning faders off. For example, suppose you group faders that are at -10, -20, and -30dB. If you pull the -30dB fader down to -40dB, the first fader will read -12dB and the second, -24dB. If you pull the -30dB fader all the way down to off, you'd probably want the other grouped fades to be off as well but instead, they sit at -13.4 and -26.7dB.



                                As to the Pair function, this is different from Link as paired faders duplicate each other's movements - offsets are not preserved. Typically, these would be used for two channels of a stereo pair. While pairing, you can also choose whether the panpots are independent, ganged (track each other), or inverted gang. With the latter, suppose one panpot is full left and another, full right. As you rotate the left panpot right, the right panpot rotates left by an equivalent amount. They'll meet in the center, and if you keep rotating, end up in opposite channels from where they started.



                                Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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