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[Jon Chappell]

Not really sure why it needs to be stickied in two forums though unless Musicians Friend is trying to blow them out or something.

No, that's just me blowing my own horn. (It's actually stickied only in one forum, the Electric Guitar forum, and that was my own doing. Only the pro review FAQ's and such are stickied here.) We get paid by the page view, ya know, so I'm trying to drum up business for myself.

[GCDEF]

No, that's just me blowing my own horn. (It's actually stickied only in one forum, the Electric Guitar forum, and that was my own doing. Only the pro review FAQ's and such are stickied here.) We get paid by the page view, ya know, so I'm trying to drum up business for myself.

Excellent. I'll stick a paper clip in the refresh button for a while for you.

[WaveMagnet]

Hi, 1st timer here.

This is a great thread and it's helped me learn a lot about this device and amp modeling multi effect units. Thanks! -- Jon C.



I have a 1979 Music Man 112 RP. One of the amps features is an effects loop input with both a hi gain and lo gain inputs. I want to confirm that I would use the send and receive inputs on the TLLE to support this configuration? You would use the *amp's* send and receive for the ToneLab LE when you want to use just the TL's effects (by turning off the amp & cab sim.). The ToneLab has two output modes dedicated to this purpose. But the send and receive on the ToneLab LE are for inserting an effect (your favorite stompbox or wah) into the unit itself. --JC



And does the TLLE have a physical/hard bypass switch capability like the Digitech RPxxx's can do? Yes. You just press 'n' hold the current program and voila! --JC



Is it possible to chain together multiple stomp boxes and plug them into the input that is open for external effects or is it one additional effect? Multiple effects are fine, and it's a good point; thanks for bringing it up. --JC



Thank you!

[GWS5987]

I have to disagree with John on this. You really want a full range amp and here's why. Every guitar amp adds its own color to the sound and every guitar amp speaker has a limited frequency range and most of them have an uneven frequency response.



The Tonelab, and other modelers are designed to emulate a whole host of amp and speaker combinations. Some of those amps and speaker sims will attempt to reproduce sounds that a regular combo may not be able to reproduce. For example the 8" speaker sim will probably be putting out higher frequencies than a typical guitar 12" can reproduce. You'd lose the ability for it to accurately reproduce some of its models. Additionally, it it's trying to recreate a certain type of frequency response, and you run it through another cab with it's own frequency quirks, you'll defeat the accuracy of that model too.



I gigged with a Tonelab SE every weekend for over a year and used it through a full range amp with a line direct to PA and it sounded great. You may get good sounds plugged into another guitar amp, but the accuracy of the models will be diminished and you'll be limiting the variety you can get out of it.



As to using it primarily as an effects processor, because of the limitations I've mentioned, I don't think it's a very good choice.



One of the reasons I gave up on it and went back to analog was I like the ability to be able to tweak on the fly. Different guitars, rooms, clubs, crowd sizes, etc. all affect the sound you're getting. When you rely on presets, you'd kind of stuck with what you program at home, which might not sound at all the same in a club. Sometimes you just need to reach down and turn a knob in a hurry. On any programmed processor, you lose that ability.

Hello GCDEF,



I appreciate your input. What are you currently using for gigs (amp, pedals etc).



TIA



George

[Guitarching]

John,



I am looking for multi-fx unit for use at gigs (no amp sim), will the new LE version be good for this purpose?



Yes, you can simply turn off both the amp sim and the cab sim, and the signal passes straight through to the effects section. In fact, you can turn off any stage of the ToneLab LE. Turn them all off, and there's no discernible difference (tone, level, self-noise) between that and the Bypass state. --Jon C.



Tony

[GCDEF]

Hello GCDEF,



I appreciate your input. What are you currently using for gigs (amp, pedals etc).



TIA



George

Back to analog, so it's various guitars into



Samson Airline wireless

Boss TU-2

Vox V848 wah

MJM Blues Devil

Fulltone mini Deja Vibe

EH Pulsar Tremolo

Visual Sound H2O

Boss FV-50L volume pedal (in fx loop)

[OverDriven]

I agree with the first statement: you'll get a truer reproduction of the model out of a full-range, non-coloring, flat-frequency (i.e., "neutral") system. (Though you won't sound bad with a combo amp -- you just have to tweak it; that's what the five output modes are for.) But this is true of all modelers; it is not specific to the ToneLab LE.



I disagree with the second statement. I think it's an excellent choice. To me, the signal topology has great appeal, and for my playing, I can feel as well as hear the results of the Valve Reactor technology at work. And I don't find the effects section limiting. (Though it's true that you can't use more than one modeled pedal or mod/delay/reverb from any one bank. Study again the chicken-head image above, or better yet, download the manual from http://www.voxamps.co.uk for a complete list of effects and their editable parameters.)



But each guitarist may, upon testing this and other modelers, prefer something else.



To each his own.



So CDEF, I'm sure you understand why I will continue to review the features of the ToneLab LE here -- because it's germane to the forum title. Stay tuned. ...

First off, great review and thanks so much for it. I'm probably buying this unit soon. I do agree with GCDEF though. For the same price you can pick up a G-Major which will absolutely blow the Tonelab away as far as effects go. Buy used and you can get a Midi controller and the Gmajor for nearly the same price.





GCDEF:

I'm considering running the exact same setup as you. Tonelab into around 5000 watts of PA for live use. What kind of music did you play with it, and was the sound "huge" enough? My trouble with the POD is it can sound kind of small at times...mainly for high gain rhythms. Basically I was wondering if you could give a review of this setup?

[adambomb]

how would you say it compares to the zoom g2.9tt tone-wise and in general.

i don't think i've read anyone bring that one up yet.

[OverDriven]

how would you say it compares to the zoom g2.9tt tone-wise and in general.

i don't think i've read anyone bring that one up yet.

Pretty sure you mean the Zoom G9.2tt. IMO that thing sounds like a cheap distortion pedal. Nothing touches the Tonelab tonewise IMO.

[GCDEF]

GCDEF:

I'm considering running the exact same setup as you. Tonelab into around 5000 watts of PA for live use. What kind of music did you play with it, and was the sound "huge" enough? My trouble with the POD is it can sound kind of small at times...mainly for high gain rhythms. Basically I was wondering if you could give a review of this setup?

I ran the Tonelab to a Carvin AG100D, which is like a little combo sized PA for stage monitoring, then a line from there to the PA. The sound was excellent. No significant difference in sound or feel from a regular amp. My two beefs were lack of flexibility in the effects and having to rely on presets. It sounds WAY better than a POD.

[Jon Chappell]

My two beefs were lack of flexibility in the effects and having to rely on presets. It sounds WAY better than a POD.

Just to clarify to point about presets: the ToneLab LE will operate in "stompbox mode," where you can turn individual effects on and off within a preset. For example, you could set up both a modeled pedal distortion (such as "SUPER OD") and a warmer overdrive courtesy of the amp & cab modeling. Then you could selectively stomp on the SUPER OD for lead passages. Same with the effects -- maybe kick on the MOD DELAY just for the solo section, kick it off for the verses.

[Jon Chappell]

First off, great review and thanks so much for it. I'm probably buying this unit soon. I do agree with GCDEF though. For the same price you can pick up a G-Major which will absolutely blow the Tonelab away as far as effects go. Buy used and you can get a Midi controller and the Gmajor for nearly the same price.

OverDriven, I'm glad you're finding this forum helpful and that you think highly enough of the ToneLab LE that you plan to purchase it soon.



About your point above: You're certainly entitled to your opinion on the G-Major, but I'd just like to point out that, yes, you would need a separate MIDI controller, because the G-Major is a single-rack-space processor (just want to make sure readers know this). Also, you're comparing the price of a used system to a new one. You could also buy a used ToneLab LE (though you might have to wait a bit, as it's brand new). Between these two factors -- different hardware paradigms and new v. used prices -- we're approaching an apples-and-oranges comparison in a multi-effects solution.

[GCDEF]

Just to clarify to point about presets: the ToneLab LE will operate in "stompbox mode," where you can turn individual effects on and off within a preset. For example, you could set up both a modeled pedal distortion (such as "SUPER OD") and a warmer overdrive courtesy of the amp & cab modeling. Then you could selectively stomp on the SUPER OD for lead passages. Same with the effects -- maybe kick on the MOD DELAY just for the solo section, kick it off for the verses.

True to a point, but as soon as you switch patches or change the effect type in a group, your "stompbox" settings are gone.

[adambomb]

Pretty sure you mean the Zoom G9.2tt. IMO that thing sounds like a cheap distortion pedal. Nothing touches the Tonelab tonewise IMO.

yeah the G9, i keep mixing it up....



really? iv'e read good things about both the toneloab and the zoom g9,



but i take it you feel the tonelab has more realistic heavy rhythm sounds, etc? i think the hardest thing on a modeller is to get a realistic high-gain rhythm sound. i don't play all high-gain by a mile, but these days it's got to be there for covers and stuff.

[Jon Chappell]

True to a point, but as soon as you switch patches or change the effect type in a group, your "stompbox" settings are gone.

Unless you save along the way (two quick taps of the Write key); then if/when you go back, you'll have your most recently edited setting -- just like in a stompbox. If you really want stompbox mode (and many times you do), that's how you'd do it. (You can copy preset banks to have your "working stompbox" version in addition to your master version, when you want to step up and down through full programs.) And again, we're talking about points common to many m-f/x, not just the TL LE.