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  • I currently play a Rickenbacker 620/6 thru the Vox ac30. I also have a Rick 360/12 that I have difficulties playing. I plan on buying the TL LE and would like to know if it has the effect to give a 6 string a 12 sting sound..

    If so, I may be trading my 12 for another 6.

    Thanks.........

    Comment


    • Can anyone tell me if the insert send and return is placed before or after the AD conversion? Can't find this info anywhere.



      Thanks

      Comment








      • Quote Originally Posted by Fooll
        View Post

        I currently play a Rickenbacker 620/6 thru the Vox ac30. I also have a Rick 360/12 that I have difficulties playing. I plan on buying the TL LE and would like to know if it has the effect to give a 6 string a 12 sting sound.




        No, the ToneLab LE can't make your 6 sound like a 12. That would be a job for the Line 6 Variax, the Roland VG Strat, VG-88, or other guitar-modeling system. The ToneLab does have an acoustic modeler in the Pedal Effects section, but it's an effect -- simulating acoustic response using EQ and, presumably, phasing. (I'm guessing here, because the manual doesn't state how the effect works, but that's how these devices usually operate.)
        Jon Chappell
        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
        Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

        Comment








        • Quote Originally Posted by Nuno_F
          View Post

          Can anyone tell me if the insert send and return is placed before or after the AD conversion? Can't find this info anywhere.




          You're right, it's not in the manual. So the A/D must be just after the Insert and before the Pedal Effect stage.



          Since your inserted effects are in the analog domain, the A/D can't be before this; and since the Pedal Effects section is digital and is the next stage in the schematic, the A/D must be just before this. So the revised schematic would look like this:



          Guitar -> Insert Effect -> A/D -> Pedal Effect -> [etc.]
          Jon Chappell
          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
          Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

          Comment








          • Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
            View Post

            You're right, it's not in the manual. So the A/D must be just after the Insert and before the Pedal Effect stage.



            Since your inserted effects are in the analog domain, the A/D can't be before this; and since the Pedal Effects section is the next stage in the schematic, the A/D must be just before this.



            Guitar -> Insert Effect -> A/D -> Pedal Effect -> [etc.]




            Right. That was what I was thinking as it wouldn't make any sense having and extra AD/DA there. It would be more expensive and unnecessary.



            Thanks for the reply.

            Comment


            • Hello



              I am very interested in the TLLE ( I almost bought an SE a few years ago ), and have been a silent reader of this post for the past few weeks. Everything I have read and seen about the TLLE seems to fit what I need, though I do have one question regarding the sound transition between program changes. I play fairly lush, atmospheric guitar (think The Cure, Smiths, Radiohead, Cocteau Twins, etc...) and have been a user of a multiple pedal set up for years ( Gibson 335 or Deluxe Tele through a Vox Wah, DD-5, DAN-Echo, VS Route 66, Daddy O, Echo-Plex, Cool Cat, etc... into a Fender Twin ) and have become very use to and accustomed to the sounds that I get.



              My question is when playing a fairly lush say Rhythm part and I need to switch to a more gritty distorted part, will the lush Rhythm part still echo out while I have switched patches to the gritty distorted part or will it cut off?



              The other guitarist in my band has a PODXT Live and is frustrated by some of these shortcomings. I want to get into multi-effects to broaden my sounds and create more, than to just rely on my old stand-by sounds. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

              Comment


              • Another question, anyone who has Amplitube 2.1 and the tonelab can tell me how the clean sounds compare? I am not really that happy with the clean sounds in amplitube, will the tonelab be a significant improvement?



                I am looking for all kinds of clean sound, from jazz to reggae, funk, etc....

                Comment








                • Quote Originally Posted by Otherness
                  View Post

                  ... I do have one question regarding the sound transition between program changes. I play fairly lush, atmospheric guitar (think The Cure, Smiths, Radiohead, Cocteau Twins, etc...) and have been a user of a multiple pedal set up for years (Gibson 335 or Deluxe Tele through a Vox Wah, DD-5, DAN-Echo, VS Route 66, Daddy O, Echo-Plex, Cool Cat, etc... into a Fender Twin)

                  ... when playing a fairly lush say Rhythm part and I need to switch to a more gritty distorted part, will the lush Rhythm part still echo out while I have switched patches to the gritty distorted part or will it cut off?




                  No, unfortunately, when you switch *programs* on the LE, the previous settings (and audio) are "flushed," and the new program loads. This is true of many mfx, not just the ToneLab and the Pod. What you're asking it to do is maintain two separate audio paths during your program change and until you strike the next guitar note. In this setup, the system doesn't "hold over" audio (your previously ringing lush chord) between program changes and your newly attacked note (which occurs after the change). Some mfx do feature a "spillover" feature, but it's limited to the delay and reverb.



                  However, in "stompbox" mode, you can set up a single patch so that you can selectively turn on the Pedal Effect or Amp/Cab sim. for your distortion sound, and you'll get the continuous ring-out from the modulation, delay, and reverb sections. You just can't switch "programs" -- but within a program you have plenty of front-end distortion options that won't cut off the mod, delay, and reverb sections further down the line (just like your individual pedals). Of course, you'd have to switch off the mod effects, too, but you have to do this anyway with an individual pedal setup.



                  But I can see why you would ask this question, based on your setup.



                  Because you're used to using multiple pedals, this "cut-off tail syndrome" is never an issue. For example, switching on/off your distortion pedal (or changing modes if you have a dual-mode distortion pedal) in an analog setup doesn't affect the other pedals (modulation, delay, reverb, etc.) down the line. The last struck sound keeps swirling and echoing even after you change the distortion (which is before the mod effects). This is the same behavior you'll get from the any mfx in "stompbox" mode.



                  So what you're asking makes sense, it's just the nature of some mfx pedals that they don't perform this way -- at least in their "program" (vs. "stompbox") modes. On some mfx (the ToneLab included), you can "preview" the next sound by moving throught banks without the sound changing, but this is not the same thing. Once you hit that new *program* button, there's an instant cut-off.
                  Jon Chappell
                  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                  Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                  Comment








                  • Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
                    View Post

                    No, the ToneLab LE can't make your 6 sound like a 12. That would be a job for the Line 6 Variax, the Roland VG Strat, VG-88, or other guitar-modeling system. The ToneLab does have an acoustic modeler in the Pedal Effects section, but it's an effect -- simulating acoustic response using EQ and, presumably, phasing. (I'm guessing here, because the manual doesn't state how the effect works, but that's how these devices usually operate.)






                    Thanks Jon....

                    I recently saw Beatlemania and the George character played the Country Gent threw out the early set. He had a 12 string effect and I could only see that he was useing what looked like the Tonelab SE. So much for easy way out...LOL

                    Comment








                    • Quote Originally Posted by Fooll
                      View Post

                      Thanks Jon....

                      I recently saw Beatlemania and the George character played the Country Gent threw out the early set. He had a 12 string effect and I could only see that he was useing what looked like the Tonelab SE. So much for easy way out...LOL




                      Well, now you've got my curiosity up. For example, in any show with well-funded production values, especially Beatlemania, if the situation calls for a 12-string, I would think the music director would insist on a modeled 12-string at the very least -- even if the guitarist is playing a 6-string. So I'm wondering what that effect was. You can simulate a 12-string with chorus and a touch of delay, but I'm not sure that would be enough for such exacting circumstances. And of course, we're not sure it was a ToneLab, right?



                      When I go to shows, I often try to sneak down to the stage at intermission or curtain call to see the setup. Barring that, you can bring binoculars and zoom in on the gear (this is sometimes more effective from the mezzanine or balcony where you can look down on all the floor effects).



                      If you know of a friend going to the show, ask him to do some reconn for you. And then let us know!
                      Jon Chappell
                      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                      Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                      Comment








                      • Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
                        View Post

                        Well, now you've got my curiosity up. For example, in any show with well-funded production values, especially Beatlemania, if the situation calls for a 12-string, I would think the music director would insist on a modeled 12-string at the very least -- even if the guitarist is playing a 6-string. So I'm wondering what that effect was. You can simulate a 12-string with chorus and a touch of delay, but I'm not sure that would be enough for such exacting circumstances. And of course, we're not sure it was a ToneLab, right?



                        When I go to shows, I often try to sneak down to the stage at intermission or curtain call to see the setup. Barring that, you can bring binoculars and zoom in on the gear (this is sometimes more effective from the mezzanine or balcony where you can look down on all the floor effects).



                        If you know of a friend going to the show, ask him to do some reconn for you. And then let us know!




                        It was defently a Vox Tone Lab. I was right on the stage but George was on the other side about 20' away. When he went into Hard Day's Night that's what he stomped. I'll be seeing another band the 18th. 1964 The Tribute so I'll beable to discuss some stage tricks. But 1964 uses the 12 string in their sets. If I get any info I'll pass it along........

                        Comment


                        • I remember playing with an octave up effect on the SE that came somewhat close to simulating a 12 string. It put the octave on the first two strings too, so it wasn't perfect.

                          Comment








                          • Quote Originally Posted by GCDEF
                            View Post

                            I remember playing with an octave up effect on the SE that came somewhat close to simulating a 12 string. It put the octave on the first two strings too, so it wasn't perfect.




                            The LE and SE's Octavers provide only lower octaves (one or two octaves below, each with adjustable level), so this is not an option. In fact, the wording is identical in the SE and LE manuals.



                            You might be thinking of the pitch shifter, but the problem with those and octavers (the ones that do offer a higher octave), is that they're fine for single notes, but sound less than ideal when two or more notes are played. So it's not just that chords sound bad; having two strings ring together also "confuses" the sound, creating unmusical artifacts. And for the opening chord to "Hard Day's Night"? Fugheddaboutit.



                            The octave doubling of the upper strings (which is undesirable in a 12-string, but unavoidable with a pitch-shifter effect applied) is the deal-killer for me, as this is what most 12-string parts seem to feature. (Think of all those Roger McGuinn licks.) The LE's pitch shifter here sounds pretty warbly.
                            Jon Chappell
                            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                            Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                            Comment


                            • First of all....thanks everyone for all of the useful info.



                              I held off getting a ToneLab SE for years because I wanted a digital out. When the LE version came out, I was quite sure I was going to get one, assuming the reviews were positive. This forum affirmed that for me, before most stores even carried the product. Since I couldn't try one out in the store, I had to rely on the feedback of others before ordering one (I NEVER buy gear sight unseen, but I had to make an exception for this one).



                              So I ordered one just over a month ago. I'm, sure I'll have more questions and hopefully I'll be able to add some insight into the product when I get a chance to get familiar with it.







                              Regarding the 12 string effect. The only product I'm aware of that really does an outstanding job of this with any guitar is the POG from Electro-Harmonix.



                              It is expensive....but it really does work and is the only thing I'd personally use to "replace" a 12 string.

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
                                View Post

                                The LE and SE's Octavers provide only lower octaves (one or two octaves below, each with adjustable level), so this is not an option. In fact, the wording is identical in the SE and LE manuals.



                                You might be thinking of the pitch shifter, but the problem with those and octavers (the ones that do offer a higher octave), is that they're fine for single notes, but sound less than ideal when two or more notes are played. So it's not just that chords sound bad; having two strings ring together also "confuses" the sound, creating unmusical artifacts. And for the opening chord to "Hard Day's Night"? Fugheddaboutit.



                                The octave doubling of the upper strings (which is undesirable in a 12-string, but unavoidable with a pitch-shifter effect applied) is the deal-killer for me, as this is what most 12-string parts seem to feature. (Think of all those Roger McGuinn licks.) The LE's pitch shifter here sounds pretty warbly.




                                It's been a while. It could have been the pitch shifter, I really don't remember for sure. Whatever it was, it was kind of fun and sort of passable if you didn't listen too closely.

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