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  • Quote Originally Posted by Ferna
    View Post

    Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this useful and educational thread.



    I am considering purchasing the Dream Rig. My local music stores don't stock the JTV guitars. I was able to try out a JTV-69 for about an hour on a recent trip. The store didn't have any other models or HD500's in stock. I was plugged directly into a Fender Super-Sonic amp.



    It seems that the 69 is the most popular model. I found the neck on the 69 too chunky near the body for my taste. I also noticed some tracking glitches. Perhaps these were attributable to the setup. A couple of posts in this thread indicated that raising the bridge can help.



    I've read that the 89 has a slimmer, Ibanez-like, neck. It looks like Neal has one along with his 59. A few questions for him and anyone else who has tried an 89:



    1. How is the build quality compared to a 59 and 69? Do you think the $100 increments in pricing are just based on the prices the equivalent name brands command? I've read the electronics are all the same other than different preset tunings on the 89.



    2. Does the 89 track well with a low action setup? I am using XL 110's on my current guitar which I think are the same as the factory-supplied strings on the JTVs.



    3. How do the Acoustic and Jazz guitar models sound on the 89 compared to the 59 or 69?



    4. Any particular tests you would run when you demo a model to look for defects? (I've read some people have had problems with sticking switches or knobs.)



    5. Is there a significant weight difference among the 3 models? The L6 site doesn't list weight on the Specifications pages.



    I like the idea of having two full octaves and it's a more useful feature for me than the whammy bar.



    I think I can get my local Guitar Center to bring one in for me but this may involve putting down a deposit. I'd like to be fairly confident about the purchase before doing that. I appreciate any input.




    I will do my best to answer your questions in an objective Beta tester way and leave out my personal preferences, etc. I have had the luck to handle both US and Korean version of the 59 & 89 models. i kept the 59US because I had to make a choice of one or the other and then bought a Korean 89 because I liked the entire build of the guitar. I had to fight a bit with the online store with the problem that a batch of 89s had from Korean where the frets literally hung over the edges of the neck and you could cut yourself trying to play it. This is not true for all but there are whatever quantity was in that specific batch still floating around. Just be sure to check if you buy one immediately and insist the retailer make certain this is not the case with any replacement. The only problems I've read but not personally experienced with either US or Korean 59 guitars is some problems with the model or alt tuning knobs getting stuck or jammed. perhaps this is user error, but it's the only wide spread complaint I've seen on the forums. Other less seen was about the binding, but I honestly think that comes under personal taste and expectation.



    Yes - I think the $100 increment or in this case a $200.00 difference between the 89 and the 59 are deserved because of what goes into making the guitar. Also the electronics are physically much different and unique to the 59 which I'm sure must cost more than using a 5-way blade on both the 89 & 69 for example.



    Yes - the 89 neck is nearly identical to a typical Ibanez neck with width, depth & length - even the body is much like an Ibanez or an ESP in balance while wearing and overall weight (about 7lbs). The 59 is literally identical to a PRS single cutaway (LP) style with a nearly exact replica of the typical necks found of nearly all PRS models.



    I've had no problem with tracking at all with any of the guitars I've had. Maybe I'm just lucky as I do all my own setups? I don't use the brand that comes with the guitars - I'm a long time GHS user and those work perfectly for me on my guitars. I use .010 -.052 gages and I can get the action pretty low on both guitars, but there are differences which may or may not apply to any guitar you might get as they are all a little different.



    Covered question #4 in previous remarks about the models.



    I know nothing about the 69, but the 89 US or Korean were in the 7lb range, and my US 59 weighs about 9 lbs which is about right for all the real Les Pauls I have in standard config with 60s slim taper necks. I have a beast of a reissue (the 40th anniversary edition in black that only 500 were made in 1992) real LP that weighs 15lbs with P100 pups and wow does it sound great but brutal on your shoulders and back.



    I'm not a big whammy bar player although i thin kit would be nice to have an 89 model with a Floyd for those who might wish that option. it was discussed and the answer came back from Line 6 that they could not get the piezo pups to work properly with any tremolo. That is the official answer, but I think it's crap since Parker and tons of other companies offer piezo with mags and a Floyd or comparable trem system without any piezo problems. Personally, I think they just didn't want to be bothered with the R&D aspects of such a thing.



    Honestly - I'd order online with a payment plan like American Musical Supply or zZounds has. there is even a special 8-pay plan on Line 6 gear currently on both sites. This way you get to try it out for up to 30 days and then return it if you're unhappy after giving it a serious test drive. How the physical instrument feels & plays for you will not take long at all. But if you're getting into a Dream Rig...the functions would certainly take at least that long to get a handle on all the JTV can do when coupled with a POD HD500 or HD PRO unit.



    I hope this info helps. Best of luck!!
    Take care,
    Neal

    Comment


    • Neal,



      Thank you for your thorough reply. I wanted to be able to get a sense of the difference between the guitars and you've done that. I've never been a Strat guy so the choice is between the 59 and 89. I'm more interested in the 89 because of the neck, weight (my back gives me trouble sometimes) and the full 2 octaves. It doesn't hurt that it's about 15% less expensive too. I'm guessing the two things I'm giving up are some natural sustain and a bit higher quality build.



      I appreciate your added commentary about AMS and zZounds along with the testing time. I haven't made any major purchases at these two vendors. I've bought lots from Musician's Friend. Do you rank the first two above them? I've never returned a guitar before.



      Cheers,



      Ferna

      Comment








      • Quote Originally Posted by Ferna
        View Post

        Neal,



        Thank you for your thorough reply.




        I thought it was very comprehensive as well, and appreciated his input given that I've worked with only one JTV.








        I appreciate your added commentary about AMS and zZounds along with the testing time. I haven't made any major purchases at these two vendors. I've bought lots from Musician's Friend. Do you rank the first two above them?



        I don't know if MF offers payment plans, but I do know they are totally behind their 45-day money-back guarantee. When I was buying a classical guitar for my daughter, I (of course!) solicited opinions from these forums, and a lot of people recommended Cordoba guitars. Despite MF owning HC the two entities are different, and I don't get any special price considerations from MF...so like anyone else, I buy from whichever source has the best deal or policies.



        Because a guitar is such a personal thing, I asked around about the 45-day return policy because I wasn't sure if my daughter would have "chemistry" with the guitar or not, and the consensus was that returns were handled with zero issues. I never got to find out for myself because my daughter loved the guitar (and so did I, so if she hadn't wanted it, I would have kept it!), but the generous return option was a primary reason for my buying the guitar from MF.



        (P.S. Early on in my time at HC, I mentioned a positive experience with MF in one of the forums. It was the only time they tried to exercise editorial control: They told me it would look suspect if someone affiliated with HC said favorable comments about MF online. I countered that HC was about being straight with the community, and NOT to mention a positive experience when it was pertinent to a discussion was not being straight with the community. So, we struck a compromise: I was free to post positive comments if appropriate, but I was also free to post negative ones if appropriate )
        N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

        Subscribe, like, and share the links!

        Comment








        • Quote Originally Posted by Ferna
          View Post

          Neal,



          Thank you for your thorough reply. I wanted to be able to get a sense of the difference between the guitars and you've done that. I've never been a Strat guy so the choice is between the 59 and 89. I'm more interested in the 89 because of the neck, weight (my back gives me trouble sometimes) and the full 2 octaves. It doesn't hurt that it's about 15% less expensive too. I'm guessing the two things I'm giving up are some natural sustain and a bit higher quality build.



          I appreciate your added commentary about AMS and zZounds along with the testing time. I haven't made any major purchases at these two vendors. I've bought lots from Musician's Friend. Do you rank the first two above them? I've never returned a guitar before.



          Cheers,



          Ferna




          MF offers their own Credit card financed through GE Capital Bank if you have decent credit and wish to have any length of time, but pay interst on outstanding balances with near 30% interest.



          the two i suiggested finance their own cntracts and charge NO INTEREST for the life of the payment plan. it's anywhere from 3 months to 12-months if they are runninf manufacturer sponsiored special longer term deals. This is happening now with these two with Line 6 gear and hopefully the guitar you want will qualify for a longer term = smaller monthly payments with no interst. No matter which you choose, you have at least 30 days for testing and for your questions about the modeled sounds and all the functionality - that is most important in my mind and the rest i already stated.



          Also - to put your statement to a more correct answer - no actually - there is not much difference in build quality or sustain. The 59 is as I described electronically unique which explains the cost factor...but when using modeled guitars...the sustain is all coming from the bridge piezo saddles and the body doesn't help as much as it would in a "conventional' Les Paul verses Strat oragainc sustain comparison.



          When you get into all you can do within the Workbench editing software, you'll understand better why I'm making these statements. Also if you need a starter JTV patch to go with a good POD HD500 or HD PRO patch to hear what can be done, just ask and I'll get it to you or anyone else who might want one to start.



          And no matter who you choose to make your purchase from - ALWAYS use the online retailer SameDayMusic.com as your price match for faster shipping. SDM offers 2nd day shipping for a fraction of what everyone else does and by the rules of all these companies, they HAVE to match the competitors shipping within the USA.



          I hope this helps you and anyone else who could benefit from all this info about the two of three JTV guitar models.
          Take care,
          Neal

          Comment








          • Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
            View Post

            I thought it was very comprehensive as well, and appreciated his input given that I've worked with only one JTV.



            I don't know if MF offers payment plans, but I do know they are totally behind their 45-day money-back guarantee. When I was buying a classical guitar for my daughter, I (of course!) solicited opinions from these forums, and a lot of people recommended Cordoba guitars. Despite MF owning HC the two entities are different, and I don't get any special price considerations from MF...so like anyone else, I buy from whichever source has the best deal or policies.



            Because a guitar is such a personal thing, I asked around about the 45-day return policy because I wasn't sure if my daughter would have "chemistry" with the guitar or not, and the consensus was that returns were handled with zero issues. I never got to find out for myself because my daughter loved the guitar (and so did I, so if she hadn't wanted it, I would have kept it!), but the generous return option was a primary reason for my buying the guitar from MF.



            (P.S. Early on in my time at HC, I mentioned a positive experience with MF in one of the forums. It was the only time they tried to exercise editorial control: They told me it would look suspect if someone affiliated with HC said favorable comments about MF online. I countered that HC was about being straight with the community, and NOT to mention a positive experience when it was pertinent to a discussion was not being straight with the community. So, we struck a compromise: I was free to post positive comments if appropriate, but I was also free to post negative ones if appropriate )




            hi Craig - just my two cents confirming what you didn't need to find out based o your daughter liking the guitar. I bought a top of the line Ovation electric/acoustic model which was about $2,000.00 and it had a BIG problem. It arrived and immediately upon opening the shipping carton, i could see that this guitar was NOT NEW - and I paid for new. I took a couple of photos showing exactly how it arrived and step by step what I found when unpacking the guitar. I t wasn't trashed, but it wasn't what i paid for. I called MF's CS department and after some understandably skeptical conversations with the first tier CS rep, then the CS rep manager on duty, I got an overnight replacement with a return label in the box. I did not ask for such speed in resolving this once it was clear it would be resolved, but MF CS Manager offered this to me at their expense for my inconvenience and embarrassment for sending a clearly not new guitar to someone who paid for a new one.



            Luckily, I've not had too many other occurrences like that although they have happened, especially with new instruments, but every time from all the online retailers I've worked with, they were always very quick to resolve and make it "Right' for me as their valued customer.



            The only sad part to this tale over two decades is that I am now NO LONGER able to return ANYTHING unless defective to any of these online retailers. ya think they all talk to each other at the higher levels?? I certainly do now since they all did the same thing to me starting this year. I honestly told right up front to each company when I placed a pre-order for the Line 6 StageScape that I was buying it to TRY IT, and if I liked it I MIGHT keep it. the very next day i got a call telling me that I had to agree I writing that if I bought it - I WOULD NOT be able to return it because I didn't like it. DOA or other defects would be replaced, but the sale would remain FINAL. I think this is unfair and i could have not said anything truthful up front and perhaps I'd have gotten to at least try this new mixer to see if it's all it's hyped up to be, but now I have this waiver I must digitally sign for EVERY purchase I make as of February 2012 to the present day. nothing in any fine print that says any of these companies can choose to do this, but yet here I am not trying out any more gear. I'm glad I don't really need any!! LOL But Id love to hear from any on here with legal experience to comment on whether this is actually legally allowed to discriminate against me in this manner?



            Sorry for the off topic part...now back to the regularly scheduled program. :-)
            Take care,
            Neal

            Comment


            • I appreciate your input on my purchasing options and clarifications on my questions, Neal and Craig.



              This is one way that the Internet has made it tough for manufacturers consumers and retailers. The closest retailer with any JTV's is about a 6 hour drive away from me and they don't have an 89 (that's about 4 Guitar Centers away, geographically). But the physical stores face the challenge of consumers that will demo with them and then purchase on the web to get a better price or avoid sales tax. Line 6 has a problem where they can't get all the stores to stock the JTV's because they aren't a high volume item.



              Thankfully, we have this forum where we can share our experiences. If I get my Dream Rig, I will follow up with my experiences here.

              Comment








              • Quote Originally Posted by OcalaMusician
                View Post

                The only sad part to this tale over two decades is that I am now NO LONGER able to return ANYTHING unless defective to any of these online retailers.




                As far as I know, MF's policy has not changed - it's based on satisfaction guaranteed. So if you get something and you find it doesn't work for you, you can return it providing it's in good condition. There may be some limitations to that (I don't know if there are health laws with respect to things like mics and headphones) but you could find that out when you order.



                My understanding from MF is they realize that if you're buying something online, you don't get to try it out physically so they don't pretend like you did. They are working on ways to give a more complete sense of a product so purchasers can make a more informed decision about what to buy. Harmony Central's forums, user reviews, and threads like this are obviously part of that initiative as people can get unbiased opinions here.



                A company as big as MF stocks a lot of stuff. They are not so much into selling a particular product as offering a wide range of products so customers have the option to find the best "fit." If there's a thread in HC and user reviews saying product "X" has serious limitations, they just shrug their shoulders and hope you'll get product "Y" or "Z" instead. They rather that you NOT buy product "X" if you're just going to return it anyway.
                N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                Comment








                • Quote Originally Posted by OcalaMusician
                  View Post

                  hi Craig - just my two cents confirming what you didn't need to find out based o your daughter liking the guitar. I bought a top of the line Ovation electric/acoustic model which was about $2,000.00 and it had a BIG problem. It arrived and immediately upon opening the shipping carton, i could see that this guitar was NOT NEW - and I paid for new. I took a couple of photos showing exactly how it arrived and step by step what I found when unpacking the guitar. I t wasn't trashed, but it wasn't what i paid for.



                  ...



                  The only sad part to this tale over two decades is that I am now NO LONGER able to return ANYTHING unless defective to any of these online retailers.




                  Neal - I assume that you'd be willing to pay some sort of restock fee for returning an item that you didn't like, right? It would hardly seem fair that we would expect to get a full refund on something we didn't like, but then be unwilling to pay the full price if we received something that someone else had not liked.



                  These companies may not offer a restock fee for lack of satisfaction, but maybe that's something that should be implemented since allowing someone to essentially demo a product devalues that product when it is returned.

                  Comment








                  • Quote Originally Posted by PFRfan
                    View Post

                    Neal - I assume that you'd be willing to pay some sort of restock fee for returning an item that you didn't like, right? It would hardly seem fair that we would expect to get a full refund on something we didn't like, but then be unwilling to pay the full price if we received something that someone else had not liked.



                    These companies may not offer a restock fee for lack of satisfaction, but maybe that's something that should be implemented since allowing someone to essentially demo a product devalues that product when it is returned.




                    The benefits of online / direct market retailing to manufacturers stems to great degree on the ability to increase already thin margins by reducing costs elsewhere. We'll have these great products as long as manufacturers can recoup development & marketing costs while continuing to pay their employees. You can't walk into a restaurant ,order every dish to sample and then just pay for what you like but with technology like this every order seems more and more like a smorgasbord . Adopting try/return as a way of life is not really about demoing a single product and making a single decision. It's more about indulging the desire to taste every dish knowing full well your going to send most of them back. That's behavior that retailers/manufacturers have to guard against for obvious reasons.



                    A tangent line to that conversation involves how the technology can literally disrupt itself. Caught myself drooling early on over the notion of a southpaw JTV coming to town and was ready to join the lefty lament chorus to Line 6. But from an engineering standpoint the JTV is also a little like the all in one PC - non optimal in that a problem anywhere puts you on hold everywhere. I'm betting that the evolution of the technology renders that whole question moot as the eventual adaptation that makes it adaptable to ANY guitar is the one that breaks open the entire guitar playing marketplace.

                    Comment








                    • Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                      View Post





                      Looking forward to trying this with the dream rig, never thought of doing this with a mono set up. I've used similar techniques when mixing from studio or live sources by creating a send with a 12 to 25 ms delay and panning the original hard left and the delayed buss hard right. Makes for a very full sounding guitar!

                      Comment


                      • Just for kicks I calculated that the dream rig gives you 11,200 permutations of tone posibilities not counting effects. When I can't sleep, I have been combining different combinations of guitars/amps and coming up with some usable sounds that I would not have normally connected.
                        Carvin DC400; Fender Cyber-Twin head, Carvin 2x12, JTV69, DT25, Epiphone Nite Hawk, Tele squire, Wechter acoustic, Carvin AG 1000, Gretch 5120

                        Comment


                        • I'll post this here since the Line 6 forums UI is the most user hostile on the internet.



                          Is it possible to record via the SPDIF while playing through the DT-25? If I plug in my link cable, I lose output from the SPDIF.



                          I'm also getting some weird static from the SPDIF. As soon as I make any noise on the guitar, I get a burst of static, and then what sounds like a static echo trailing off. It does this every time I hit a new note of chord. I've been messing with timing, and reflashed the HD500 firmware, but nothing seems to be working. It isn't my DAW as it happens in HD500 Edit as well. I think it has to be the HD500 itself, or if I am lucky the cable, but I'm never that lucky.

                          Comment








                          • Quote Originally Posted by dramey
                            View Post

                            I'll post this here since the Line 6 forums UI is the most user hostile on the internet.



                            Is it possible to record via the SPDIF while playing through the DT-25? If I plug in my link cable, I lose output from the SPDIF.




                            Not sure about the static issue but I found this using Google which indicates that only one digital output at a time is supported:



                            http://line6.com/support/thread/74673



                            By the way these are the terms I used on Google:



                            site:line6.com HD500 SPDIF DT25

                            Comment


                            • I noticed today Sweetwater and Musicians Friend dropped the price on all models of the JTV's by $200.

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by nevermore8
                                View Post

                                I noticed today Sweetwater and Musicians Friend dropped the price on all models of the JTV's by $200.




                                I noticed that Line 6 is giving a $200 rebate on any of its JTV guitars, $150 for any DT amp and $500 for the purchase of a Dream Rig. Should be honored by any of the Internet

                                dealers.

                                Comment













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