Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

33028786

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Craig



    I figured out my problem, maybe others will get some benefit from my experience here. My 12-string sounds were crappy because my guitar, a JTV-69, needed setup adjustment! It was fine out of the box, but I guess quite a bit of playing, new strings by a different manufacturer, action wear-in, neck wear-in, whatever, contributed to thin/reedy sounding models, most noticeable on the 12's. When I raised the saddles a hair, and gave some neck relief, BINGO, all the models sounded better.



    I think the JTV's are hyper-critical when it comes to string action, which stands to reason. I also noticed that a lot of sonic artifacts - like warbling on virtual capo's - also vanished.



    Larry

    Comment








    • Quote Originally Posted by LarryLion
      View Post

      When I raised the saddles a hair, and gave some neck relief, BINGO, all the models sounded better.




      AHA! I believe I mentioned earlier that I raised the bridge slightly, so your post is very helpful. Thanks!
      Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

      Subscribe, like, and share the links!

      Comment


      • Hey all, sorry for the absence...between traveling and needing to put some quality time into other aspects of Harmony Central (we changed the newsletter schedule so we had to work out a new production workflow, and I needed to put time into some new HC projects that will roll out in the fall), time has been at a premium. But I'm back , and aside from needing to edit NAMM videos over the next few days, I'll check in as often as possible.



        The next area I want to cover is the cabinet emulation output and low power mode. I expected that the cabinet emulation would allow me to record at low volumes, and also thought it would be interesting to run a miked speaker into one interface channel, and the emulated out into the other. As it's nighttime and sound really travels around here, I thought I'd use Low Power mode.



        However, I quickly found out that this didn't work the way I expected. The cab emulation is tied in with the power amp; in low power mode I didn't get any output at all, so I needed to use full power mode. Fair enough, but the output level depends on the level settings, so you need to be running the amp at fairly high levels to get serious output from the emulated out. As I didn't feel like either angering the neighbors or waking up some otherwise sleeping coyotes, I decided to put off recording until tomorrow during the day.



        Meanwhile, though, I was curious about the relationship between what's modeled and what's not with the DT25, so I did a little research and thought you might find the following interesting.



        First, you need to differentiate between the preamp models and dual EL84 power amp section. The preamp models are the same as in the POD HD, which I presume is what makes it possible to link the HD 500 and DT25 and have the two mirror each other. However the power amp is what provides the "tube sound" and distortion. In other words, the preamp models are sort of "half models" compared to what's in the POD HD, with the power amp providing the other half of the equation. Also, I think that part of "the tube sound" is due to the interaction of the tube output stage with the speaker, which of course is not modeled in the DT25, but is the real thing.



        You can think of the various power amp voicing options as a sort of "analog modeling." So you have a digitally-modeled preamp, and an amp section that offers the flexibility of modeling, but in the analog domain. Before the DT-series amps, even with their tube-based Spider Valve amps, the tube power amp was simply a power amp, and the distortion characteristics were modeled along with the preamp. The DT represents a conceptual departure, not just a technical one.



        However, in low power mode the power amp section is modeled, as you simply can't get the sound of a straining power amp if it's sitting around relaxing. But note that you still have the EL84-based output stage. So in a way, low power mode provides another type of emulation - that of the basic Spider Valve amp sound, assuming the levels are up high enough to make the output tubes tingle.



        I've read online that in low power mode, it's possible to use the emulated output even if the amp is in standby mode because the emulated out is taken from a different part of the circuit compared to the normal power mode. I tried this without success; at least with my DT25, it sure seems that you can't get any signal from the emulated output unless the amp is not in standby mode, and also, not in low power mode.



        Anyway, assuming the NAMM video editing gods smile upon me tomorrow and editing goes smoothly, I should be able to take a break and do some of the recording I'd planned to do tonight.
        Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

        Subscribe, like, and share the links!

        Comment


        • Craig,



          Great thread you've got going here. I have a question that I haven't been able to resolve with my JTV59 and Pod HD500 (I don't own a DT at this time). Here it is:



          1) I have seen Sean Halley @ line6movies "split the signal" of his dream rig; which effectively allows for acoustic and electric from the JTV to be played simultaneously. He does so by "pinching" the signal" and using 2 expression pedals to control the mix. Is it possible to do this without the DT25? If so, how is this done? An answer from any of your loyal readers would be helpful.



          Thank you.

          Sam

          Comment








          • Quote Originally Posted by Safety Sam
            View Post

            Craig,



            Great thread you've got going here. I have a question that I haven't been able to resolve with my JTV59 and Pod HD500 (I don't own a DT at this time). Here it is:



            1) I have seen Sean Halley @ line6movies "split the signal" of his dream rig; which effectively allows for acoustic and electric from the JTV to be played simultaneously. He does so by "pinching" the signal" and using 2 expression pedals to control the mix. Is it possible to do this without the DT25? If so, how is this done? An answer from any of your loyal readers would be helpful.



            Thank you.

            Sam




            Greetings Sam. Allow me to address your question; yes you can. Go to the link below to learn how, just as I learned and is my actual setup. The writing is solid and there's a demo video as well. I think you'll be amazed ;-)



            http://pietrosquared.wordpress.com/2...nd-the-variax/

            Comment








            • Quote Originally Posted by rodjoe
              View Post

              Greetings Sam. Allow me to address your question; yes you can. Go to the link below to learn how, just as I learned and is my actual setup. The writing is solid and there's a demo video as well. I think you'll be amazed ;-)



              http://pietrosquared.wordpress.com/2...nd-the-variax/




              Thanks for covering for me during the "NAMM show zone"! I've done 40+ Summer NAMM videos so far (here's the playlist URL if you're interested - the show ended yesterday) and probably have about 20 more to go. Then I get to play with the Variax again
              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

              Comment


              • Hi everybody.

                I'm following this thread from the very beginning and I thins that is awsome, especially for guys like me, who lives in a small Europeean country/town with no musical shops.



                One qustion for the experienced guys with Hd/DT combination + strat guitar.

                Is is possible to get this crunch sound with this combination?



                This is the sound from Amplitube 3.5 with JCM800 setup + Fender Strat 57 reissue.

                Thanks.



                PS. Sorry for the long file!
                Blues

                Comment


                • Line 6 was kind enough to shed some light on the DT25’s inner workings, and in the process, set me straight about some things I didn’t quite understand about how the emulation and Low Volume Mode work. Well, now I know how to make this all work the way it should, and the bottom line is . . . this amp does even more than I thought.



                  First, Line 6 pointed out that Low Volume Mode is indeed that, and not a Low Power Mode, as I called it. This is an important distinction because many amps with adjustable power modes alter the headroom or wattage. Although the DT25 does provide power adjustment by offering either Class AB or Class A mode (25 or 10 Watts respectively), Low Volume Mode scales the volume knob to a reasonable “bedroom” level while using the DSP’s HD technology to add power amp modeling to the usual preamp/tone stack modeling (described in my post #288). The power amp modeling is necessary because given the reduced output level, the output tubes aren’t being pushed; the HD technology models that sound.



                  As it turns out despite what I thought initially, you CAN get an emulated out in standby mode. However, for this to happen Low Volume Mode has to be on. Because I had it off, and also had turned down the volume, the XLR’s emulated output was very low. Why? Because under these conditions, the XLR out is being tapped from the output transformer, which is fed by the power tubes and interacts with the speaker. So at low volumes with Low Volume Mode off, there’s not a lot of signal being tapped off and sent to the XLR out. Doh.



                  This seemed a little convoluted to me, but Line 6 made a good case for choosing this design: If a guitarist had the amp’s XLR out connected to the front of house mixer, put the amp in standby, then walked away from sound check, depending on various factors the guitar could start feeding back. But if the amp was in Low Volume Mode—the only way to get an output from the XLR out while in standby mode—feedback almost certainly couldn’t happen. And if it’s not in Low Volume Mode there’s no output from the XLR, hence no potential for feedback.



                  One other fine point is I said that in a way, Low Volume Mode provides another type of emulation—“that of the basic Spider Valve amp sound, assuming the levels are up high enough to make the output tubes tingle.” But while Line 6 said that was conceptually correct, they pointed out that the HD technology is different enough that the emulation is somewhat similar, but certainly not identical.



                  So, the bottom line for the four possible XLR Direct Out jack options are:



                  1. Standby disabled / Low Volume Mode off: The tubes are “pushed” based on the levels (more level, more “tube sizzle”). The output is tapped from the output transformer, and sent through cabinet emulation of the DT25 cabinet. HD emulation is used only for the preamp/tone stack, not the power amp. Sound also comes through the DT25 speaker.



                  2. Standby disabled / Low Volume Mode on: The tubes themselves aren’t being pushed, but the HD technology models this effect; the output is tapped from the output transformer, which then goes through cabinet emulation of the DT25 cabinet. Sound also comes through the DT25 speaker.



                  3. Standby enabled / Low Volume Mode on: Cabinet emulation of the DT25 cabinet. This is pretty much the same as connecting a POD HD directly to a DAW interface, front of house mixer, etc. No sound comes through the DT25 speaker.



                  4. Standby enabled / Low Volume Mode off: No output from the XLR out or DT25 speaker. This is the preferred mode for music stores when a guitarist is playing “Stairway to Heaven” badly.



                  I think I got all the details right, but if not, hopefully Line 6 will post something and correct me. Otherwise, it’s time for “but wait, there’s more...”
                  Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                  Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                  Comment


                  • I decided to do some recording with the emulated out, Low Volume Mode on, Low Volume Mode off, miked, etc. for comparison. I was curious whether the emulation of the DT25 cabinet sounded similar to what it sounded like when miked but of course, I wasn’t using the same mic, in the same position, in the same room, etc. However when I applied more low end around 60-80Hz to the miked signal, the sound was quite similar, as you’ll hear in the following examples.



                    Audio Example 1 plays a riff recorded using the emulated cab XLR out in Low Volume Mode, followed by the same basic riff but miking the DT25 cabinet with a Shure SM58.



                    Audio Example 2 is basically the same as Audio Example 1, and with all the same amp control settings, but with Low Volume Mode off. You’ll note that the sound isn’t as “crunchy” because the levels aren’t high enough to push the tubes into serious distortion; in Audio Example 1, the HD power amp modeling provides the crunch.



                    Audio Example 3 showcases one of those “hmmm, it does that too” applications. This is a stereo example with Low Volume Mode off; the left channel has the emulated out, while the right channel is miking the cabinet. The two signals are panned oppositely, given a nice, full stereo image.



                    Like the Variax part of this review, I’m reaching the part of the review where the more I use this amp, the more I like it . . . it's extremely versatile, what with the pure analog sound, the digital modeling if you want low levels, the option of recording the emulated out while miking the speaker, and so on. It’s really clever.



                    (And props to Line 6 for walking me through how this whole XLR out thing works, I'm pretty sure I get it now . . . and if not, it sounds good anyway
                    )
                    Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                    Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                    Comment


                    • Hi, I'm about to get a JTV69!

                      Being left-handed I'm going to have to change the order of the piezo pickups - or the order of the leads on the circuit board. Has anybody done this or have any suggestions?

                      It'll be ages before Line 6 make a left-handed model.

                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • Wow, you're brave...maybe someone from Line 6 could comment as to whether you'd be biting off more than you can chew...
                        Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                        Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                        Comment


                        • Well... On the Line 6 forum an employee said that would be viable. (Not Steve Vai-able) And... My guitar tech said it would work ok. If the leads aren't long enough there's always replacement bridges if it came to the crunch.

                          Comment


                          • Hi Craig -



                            I still owe you some .wavs of the drop in level when switching 'pickups' on various models. Suffice to say for now that I did corroborate your story of the LESTER being pretty immune to this issue, and the CHIME pretty blatant - more so than SPANK.



                            In the meantime, I'm trying to wrap my mind around your following quote.









                            Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                            View Post

                            1. Standby disabled / Low Volume Mode off: The tubes are “pushed” based on the levels (more level, more “tube sizzle”). The output is tapped from the output transformer, and sent through cabinet emulation of the DT25 cabinet.




                            Bear in mind that I've not opted for the DT25 so far, and I've still not worked with the HD500 enough to ditch my old processor.



                            AAR, I am confused by the "cabinet emulation of the DT25 cabinet" statement. Are you indicating that the DT25 cabinet performs some sort of modeling of other speaker systems? Or is this saying that the XLR direct out gets some treatment on the signal that makes it emulate the DT25 speaker/cab electroacoustic system?



                            Further, what do you mean by 'The tubes are pushed"? Are you saying that the AC signal level (e.g. to the phase inverter, and thereby to the power tube grids) is relatively high in level?



                            Is it safe to assume that assume standby is managed in the age old tradition of killing the B+ feed to the center tap of the output tranny (and thereby to the plates of the output tubes)?



                            So in 'Standby disabled / Low Volume Mode on' - you speak of HD technology - is this DSP residing in the HD500, or does the DT25 have its own digital modeling engine?



                            Now reviewing my post, I am intrigued. Is there additional modeling on the XLR out? perhaps mic / pre / room reverb? There are some great tools in Pod Farm - mics and pres and rooms. If there is such modeling, is it going to reduce the times I reach for the R121, U87, MD421, or even SM57?

                            Comment








                            • Quote Originally Posted by jbreher
                              View Post

                              I am confused by the "cabinet emulation of the DT25 cabinet" statement. Are you indicating that the DT25 cabinet performs some sort of modeling of other speaker systems? Or is this saying that the XLR direct out gets some treatment on the signal that makes it emulate the DT25 speaker/cab electroacoustic system?




                              The latter. Line 6 figured that the emulated out should sound as close as possible to the physical cabinet. If you experiment with how it's miked, you can come pretty close. It's clear the DT25 cab is what's being modeled.








                              Further, what do you mean by 'The tubes are pushed"? Are you saying that the AC signal level (e.g. to the phase inverter, and thereby to the power tube grids) is relatively high in level?



                              Yes. In low power mode, the tubes aren't being pushed to high levels (otherwise they'd be loud). So there's emulation of what the tubes sound like when run at higher levels.








                              Is it safe to assume that assume standby is managed in the age old tradition of killing the B+ feed to the center tap of the output tranny (and thereby to the plates of the output tubes)?



                              I don't know the answer to that one, sorry.








                              So in 'Standby disabled / Low Volume Mode on' - you speak of HD technology - is this DSP residing in the HD500, or does the DT25 have its own digital modeling engine?



                              The DT25 has its own modeling engine.








                              Now reviewing my post, I am intrigued. Is there additional modeling on the XLR out? perhaps mic / pre / room reverb?



                              I assume it's not an HD500, but a subset tailored to do specific things with the amp. There's still a lot of merit to using the HD500/DT25 as complementary pieces of gear, as we'll find out shortly.



                              However, stay tuned while I drop a hint: I was privy to some rumors about an update that will be coming out before too long for the DT series amps. It seemed pretty ambitious, so what I heard might have been a wish list more than a firm feature set. In any event, there's something going on in DT update-land at Line 6, and I'm curious to see what shakes out.
                              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                              Comment


                              • Hi,



                                I'm new to the board and please forgive my far-to-perfect English.

                                My love to Line 6 is like tides I started with Pro Tools 4.1 and AmpFarm, then worked with almost every POD 1/2/XT Live/X3 Live. I was happy reading about them, then I was happy when I sold them. I loved them for recording and hated for playing live. As a studio gear it was very convenient gear and saved a lot of time. But when performed live with them I've always had problems with monitoring the signal to hear myself properly in the band. I've tried Atomic amp, other guitar amps, full-range speakers and always finished with spending 50% time of playing for tweaking the sound, volume, compression etc. When I switched to my regular tube amps (Rivera, Engl, Fender) all problems disappeared.



                                About the topic:

                                A couple days ago I bought JTV-69 (Korean). Nice guitar, very usable live but had some problems with it (more about it later). I played a small gig last Saturday with very simple configuration: JTV-69->XPS footswitch->1/4" jack to CryBaby wah then to Engl Ritchie Blackmore with TC G-Major in the serial loop (mono), XLR to right input of the TC G-Major for acoustic sounds; amp to 2x12" Engl V30 box + Shure SM 57, TC G-Major's right output to FOH; MIDI controlled by Behringer FCb1010 with UnO chip and Engl MIDI switcher. When I was playing acoustic sounds the amp was switched remotely to Master B volume set to 0. So I was able to use G-Major both for the amp and acoustic guitars from JTV-69. I tried a couple songs with my Am Stratocaster (2x SC Fralin's + Tone Zone HB in SC size) but returned to JTV-69 because it gave me more sounds and quite nice Strat sound.



                                The whole setup sounded really good. But I want more I think about Dream Rig because the XPS box is a little noisy and I'd like to remove it from my rig but don't trust batteries. TC G-Major is a quite old unit and it misses many effects I'd like to use, I can see them in POD HD 500. I don't want to give up tube sound. Reading DT 25/50 series reviews I think they're decent amps. But I'm not sure about some new features in HD 500 when using with DT amps:

                                * when I played with X3 Live I was using balanced outputs with simulation for FOH and simultaneously unbalanced output for power input; is it possible with Dream Rig?

                                * is it possible to mute DT amp when playing with acoustic guitar and send the sound to analog unbalanced outputs only while using XLR for microphone output and store that configuration per preset?

                                * about DT-25 combo: is it resonating when played loud? many combos I used had problems with vibrating tubes...



                                And about problems with JTV-69.

                                First problem was related to knob/switch. I had to much force to change magnetic to simulation mode, sometimes I had to press three or four times to change it, or even worse - the knob stayed pressed and I had to pull it up manually.

                                The second problem - tremolo. It's related to simulation only, so I suppose it's a piezo problem. Every time I touched the bar the guitar produced low rumbles(?)/pops like a microphone without HPF filter. When used on distorted sounds moving bar up and down produced even louder rumbles/low crackles.

                                The third problem - hum/noises from magnetic HB. It was much more noisy than my Stratocaster with singles. Is it normal for that model and its humbucker?



                                My dilemma is: going to Dream Rig or not. I'm afraid more problems with HD 500 and DT. Are they reliable gears? I had to send my X3 Live twice to the support because of its footswitches, Variax 500 was returned because it's knob/selector didn't worked properly. How about current Line 6 products quality?



                                Kindest regards,

                                Jacek

                                Comment













                                Working...
                                X