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  • Quote Originally Posted by DigiTechRep
    View Post

    This is what I wrote last month about the bank revert request (BTW, the request was also reviewed by DigiTech last month as well).



    "We will consider some sort of user definable time frame for bank revert in the iPB-10, but definitely not for this update."



    I apologize if you feel it to be dismissive.




    I apologize for not seeing that and appreciate the consideration. Any thoughts as to whether this can be done completely by firmware? (i.e. not make it user configurable in Nexus, but just change the hard-coded setting from 2.7 secs to say 15 secs.)



    Also, any comment at all regarding the 10 banks per second scrolling issue would be appreciated.



    And lastly, any comment on simply removing the timeout in favor of an "exit and cancel" key? (Say a double tap on any bank reverts to the currently selected patch/bank combo.) This may be the most viable solution in the end.



    Appreciate your input and will think twice before I go doggin again!

    Comment








    • Quote Originally Posted by paka
      View Post

      Thanks for the vid Anderton! Would it be asking to much to demonstrate the "press and hold" bank scrolling issue as well? This can be even more vexing if you're trying to get from bank 2 to say bank 12. It's nearly impossible for non-drummers like myself to "land" on the desired bank using the 10 banks per second default rate. I end up pressing up or down individually 10 times which seems overly tedious.




      Darn, I dismantled the video setup...let me see what I can do tomorrow, although it's going to be a pretty packed day work-wise.



      Meanwhile, do you use the iPad at your gig? You probably know this already, but you can just touch the bank number on the strip along the bottom of the app, and get to any bank instantly.



      As to the footswitches, here's what I found. If I just need to go up/down a bank or two (or three), I just hit the button that many times. If I need to traverse a significant number of banks, what I'm finding is that I rarely "land" exactly on the desired bank, but am usually off by one or two banks. In that case, I hit the footswitch one or two times, as needed.



      I think the question is whether having a scroll rate that's slow enough to land on the right bank every time would be faster or slower than zipping past the bank, but ending up close enough that one or two footswitch presses get you where you want to go. Of course there's no way I can test this without slowing down the rate of scrolling for comparison, but I tend to think it would probably end up being a six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other situation.



      Really, though, IMHO doing bank selection on the iPad itself is the way to go, then use the footswitches to select tones. Trying to select a bank with just two footswitches is always going to be limited compared to just touching the iPad screen. Of course, this brings up the "hey, what extender cable works best if I want to put the iPad on a mic stand?" question
      Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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      • http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Apple-ext...#ht_2988wt_986



        This is the extension cable that I have used from day 1 for about 12 months and I gig every weekend so the cable is pulled apart and put back together about 6 times a week without any issues it is plenty long enough to put your iPAD in an iKLIP on your mic stand , I have not had any charging issues either , if you look at thread 783 I did explain about the bank selecting directly on the iPAD . regards Murray.

        Comment


        • Anyone have good luck with a full 6 foot cable? murraymuzza's seems to be less than 4 foot.

          Comment


          • I have a 6 foot cable also ( cable jive ) I think but it had charging issues , not sure whether it was too long or not wired for charging . regards Murray.

            Comment


            • BTW, I will be hiding the exchanges between thebioguy and myself so no one has to suffer through that train wreck. It's the first time I've ever banned someone from a pro review, but I think anyone who read his posts can understand why. Nonetheless the posts will be archived and can be restored at any time if necessary.
              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

              Comment


              • For a 6 foot CableJive DockXtender, the key is to make sure that the iPad (iPad2 in my case) is at least 65% charged before connecting. Even at that charge, I always verify that charging is happening after the NEXUS software launches so I don't unwittingly deplete the battery. Swap out of NEXUS (double click the "Home" button to see the other apps running), go to Settings and look for the lightning bolt icon in the top right corner. If it's gone, try re-seating the cable to see if you can still control the pedal through NEXUS while simultaneously charging the iPad. Success rate goes up the greater the battery charge, but I had significant challenges below an initial iPad battery charge level of around 65%.

                Comment








                • Quote Originally Posted by Noodler@TGP
                  View Post

                  After living with my iPB-10 for a week and gigging with it tonight I just don't get all the angst about the patch switching time-out issue. I already pretty much know where every one of my "go to" patches live on the board (I don't even need the iPad in the unit to "see" anything). Switching to a patch in a different bank is only two quick footswitch stomps. If you need time to read the labels on each and every patch in a bank before selecting your patch then you need to think more about how you're labeling your patches or how you're organizing your banks. Sorry to be so blunt, but I just don't get it.




                  I strongly second this. The entire "problem" is overcome with a modicum of organization on the part of the user. I've used my iPB-10 for five or six gigs, and have had no problem at all.

                  Comment








                  • Quote Originally Posted by R2112
                    View Post

                    I strongly second this. The entire "problem" is overcome with a modicum of organization on the part of the user. I've used my iPB-10 for five or six gigs, and have had no problem at all.




                    I understand there are those who do not see the timeout as a "problem". There are also many people who are happily submitting to being X-rayed at airports and for them it is no "problem". But this is not the point. We have a condition created by the developer, which for some is a problem and for others can be "lived with" through mitigation. Just because it can be mitigated does not mean it shouldn't be changed so that it works in a way that is best for EVERYONE, including whiners (like me), and those accepting of what is dished out (like yourself).



                    Ask yourself 2 questions:

                    1. How does the 2.7 second timeout reversion serve me?

                    2. How would I be with a longer timeout (or none at all)?



                    If the answer to 1. is: It doesn't serve me (whether or not you're ok with it), THEN IT DOESN'T BELONG IN THE PROGRAM!

                    If the answer to 2. is anything but: "That wouldn't work for me", then a longer timeout should be favored for those that DO want it.

                    Comment


                    • Ok, on to the SECOND timing problem on the iPB-10: this is the fast and furious scrolling of the bank number during a press and hold on the bank up/down buttons.



                      First, why is this a problem? When selecting a new bank, it should be doable in a single click/hold/release of either up or down stomp switches. But, unless you're an artificially created cyborg, you likely find that you overshoot on this MOST of the time. Then you have to backtrack by clicking 1 or more times on the opposite button to reach the bank you're trying to select. Like the timeout issue, I submit this is due to either faulty or lazy programming, since a real human being cannot use this high speed scrolling effectively.



                      Since nobody else here has even acknowledged this problem, I would like to propose a little TEST for everyone who has an interest. I've created a small "BEAT THE iPB CLOCK" game and I challenge anyone to consistently WIN at this game. (Sorry, no prizes, and please don't brag if you get it right a few times - chance is a big part of this game!)



                      Instructions: Start and stop timer using a bank up/down key. If it doesn't work the first time, press the "RUN" button on the upper left to reset.

                      STEP RIGHT UP FOLKS, AND PLAY BEAT THE iPB CLOCK HERE

                      Comment








                      • Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                        View Post

                        I think the question is whether having a scroll rate that's slow enough to land on the right bank every time would be faster or slower than zipping past the bank, but ending up close enough that one or two footswitch presses get you where you want to go. Of course there's no way I can test this without slowing down the rate of scrolling for comparison, but I tend to think it would probably end up being a six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other situation.




                        Done, now you can test it and see what makes the most sense for YOU! (see prev. post)

                        IMO, it's not just about how much TIME it takes to get to the right bank, but how much WORK it takes. Personally, I only want to press and hold this ONE time, even if it doesn't get me there any sooner. By making it user configurable, DT can satisfy EVERYONE. And again, if this is too much perceived work, or expense on their limited maintenance budget, then simply change the default which already exists! This is literally a 5 minute fix, no matter where the setting resides.








                        Really, though, IMHO doing bank selection on the iPad itself is the way to go, then use the footswitches to select tones. Trying to select a bank with just two footswitches is always going to be limited compared to just touching the iPad screen.



                        Yes, like many others, that's what I'm doing now. But what if I don't want/have the iPad installed. The iPB is DESIGNED to work w/out it. I think most people will find, if they play the BEAT THE iPB CLOCK game, that a comfortable value is somewhere between 0.5 sec at the low end and 0.7 at the high end. Digitech currently has this set at 0.1 !!!

                        Comment


                        • I played "beat the clock" with the bank scrolling on my actual iPB-10 just to see for myself if the timing of the bank scrolling is really a problem. I landed on the correct bank 9 out 10 tries. By my estimation the banks scroll at about one per half a second on my unit. I did fairly long scrolls (across 15 banks or so) and some medium scrolls (5-10 banks) in my test. The way it has been portrayed I thought the numbers would scroll by so fast I wouldn't even be able to read the numbers. Now I will say that if you attempt to scroll exactly to the bank number you want by waiting until you see the number in the display you'll probably overshoot the number every time. You kind of have to "lead the target" when you take your shot (since it's a moving target). Honestly, if the display scrolled slower than the current speed I think I would be more frustrated trying to get from one end to the other - but keep in mind that the scrolling does loop in both directions, so at most you would only ever need to scroll through 10 banks. You just need to remember that the banks can scroll backwards too.

                          Comment


                          • @Noodler: Congratulations, you're a Cyborg! That's very interesting that your unit seems to scroll at a half second per bank. I've done extensive testing on my rig (using 2 different iPad 2's) and my methodology was to run a really long scroll for accuracy (going 1-20 for 40 repetitions) and I came up with almost exactly 1/10th second per bank. It is possible (likely) that either your estimations are incorrect or that you have a different firmware version than I do, which would be very interesting. (Comments DigiTechRep?)



                            I must admit I would be happy with your setup of 1/2 second per bank. But you are still claiming to miss some and MINE IS SCROLLING 5 TIMES FASTER THAN THAT!



                            Are you sure this was using the default rate of 0.1?) I'm not ashamed to admit that I can't land on the correct one (using 0.1 timing) more than about 10 - 15% of the time. So I guess I LOSE! Maybe I need a certain skill set to use this unit.



                            Bottom line: Why should anyone have to develop such skills as "leading the target", or backtrack even a single click? I've owned many other devices that scroll through number sets and not a single one approaches this Indie-like speed.

                            Comment


                            • The purpose of scroll is to skip past chunks of banks, not to use it to land on a bank. The concept is that if you have a deeper bank, you scroll past 2 or 3 banks, then tap to the correct bank. It was never intended as a sole (heh) way to navigate from bank to bank. In our testing this is indeed how people intuitively used the scroll. Step on it for a second, release, tap-tap, done.

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by DigiTechRep
                                View Post

                                The purpose of scroll is to skip past chunks of banks, not to use it to land on a bank. The concept is that if you have a deeper bank, you scroll past 2 or 3 banks, then tap to the correct bank. It was never intended as a sole (heh) way to navigate from bank to bank. In our testing this is indeed how people intuitively used the scroll. Step on it for a second, release, tap-tap, done.




                                Interesting, because that's how I use it. I think the reason why people use it this way "intuitively" is because most other multieffects, digital signal processor patches, and synthesizers follow the same paradigm, whose introduction seems to correlate to when products started including more and more presets.
                                Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                                Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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