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  • Ban cell video at concerts? Of course! (Not?)


    The barn door swung clear of the hinges on this one.
    Anything short of video-jamming technology or confiscation on entry is a pointless discussion.

    So why do people spend so much effort to ‘get the shot’? The reason is hits, likes and views. Once again musicians and our music serve to support someone else’s agenda.
    In this case, the shutterbugs use the popularity of the subjects in the shots to boost their own numbers and hip factor on Facebook, YouTube etc. The seemingly infinite numbers of poor quality videos from the most recent Rolling Stones concert tour alone support this position.

    I’m sure there are many people shooting the same events without posting them online, but for the most part, I believe the ones that end up online are not there for any “love of the art and I want the whole world to see them” reason. It’s about “hey world look at me!”

    Want something politically incorrect? Look for my next post on why the greatest rock band in the world may not be The Beatles!

  • #2
    I can't blame people for wanting to take pictures, but as someone who would rather be in the moment at a show then mess around with my phone, I really don't want my view obstructed by yours.

    I don't necessarily think it's all bad for the musicians on stage though. Sure, the shutterbugs are using the popularity of the subjects, but the popularity of the subjects grows with every shutterbug.
    ...

    Comment


    • onelife
      onelife commented
      Editing a comment
      I was driving through the wilderness one time with a good friend of and we came upon a scene of incredible beauty. I was in awe of what we were seeing and of the fact that we were in it.

      My friend spent the entire time cursing and beating himself up for not having brought his camera with him.

  • #3
    Not necessarily bad, not necessarily good.
    I remember seeing Nickleback at The Hammerstein Ballroom in NYC a few years back
    just before the 'I HATE NICKLEBACK' campaign got into full swing. Having seen them in person
    as well as many cell phone/tablet videos since, there is nothing about the vids that would make me want to see them.
    But having seen them live, I can say that they are a good band and deserve to make a living.
    They do have a presence that is their own. Whether I like it or don't care for it, it does exist, but it isn't transferable through
    a cell phone vid from 50 rows back or even from the first row. Therefore you can get a lot of haters piling on with what may seem like
    justifiable proof from a poor quality cell phone vid.
    Make no mistake, when you factor in all of the elements that make up a live performance (including sound and visuals), there is no such thing as a good recording on a cell phone. They are all sub par.

    Comment


    • #4
      It's a strange thing. In the case of jazz and other improvised performances, I get it because that show will never happen again the same way. But its seriously obnoxious when dozens of people are obstructing your view and the videos are probably total unwatchable garbage. For that reason it doesn't hurt us musicians too much, but this practice screws comedians up big time. They go on tour and by the 4th show everyones already heard all the jokes off youtube... I hope its just something that becomes socially unacceptable in a few years.

      Comment


      • #5
        Right on point about comedy Timothy.
        It is a very difficult issue for comedians as well as other live theater presentations.
        http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...atch-statement

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by Mr. Hardgroove View Post
          I’m sure there are many people shooting the same events without posting them online, but for the most part, I believe the ones that end up online are not there for any “love of the art and I want the whole world to see them” reason. It’s about “hey world look at me!”
          There's certainly a huge amount of narcissism involved in the whole Facebook / YouTube craze. I'd rather see a well-done, professionally shot concert video than someone's distorted and unstable phone video shot from row 35...

          Want something politically incorrect? Look for my next post on why the greatest rock band in the world may not be The Beatles!


          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

          Comment


          • #7
            The barn door swung clear of the hinges on this one.
            Anything short of video-jamming technology or confiscation on entry is a pointless discussion.


            Yeah, that ship has sailed. I don't know if there's any way to jam cell phones and prevent them from shooting video, although you might be able to keep them from getting calls with jammers, which would put an end to another source of annoying interruptions. If I was a venue owner, my concern would be emergencies and liability - I doubt many venues would use jammers because of those issues.

            Confiscation might work in smaller venues (maybe they could set it up like a coat check system), but I just don't see how it would be practical for larger concerts.
            **********

            "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

            - George Carlin

            "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

            - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

            "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

            - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

            Comment


            • #8
              I can remember years ago when this was simply a forbidden taboo and could possibly have landed you in Jail. We would have never thought of walking into a RUSH concert with a video camera on our shoulder, or a cassette tape player under our arm.
              But now with recording and video devices living on our mobile devices, it has suddenly become "acceptable"?

              There are plenty of cases where artists are taking a stand.
              Michael McIntyre walked off during a performance recently when someone on the front row wouldn't stop recording. Even Spacey halted his performance in a play recently and went off on an audience member when their cell phone went off for the third time and he finally snapped!

              So it goes beyond just taping a performance some of it crosses into common etiquette and courtesy.
              Personally, if I pay the prices that some of these acts are getting for tickets today, I wouldn't want to run the risk of being ejected due to taping.

              On the flip side, there is something to be said about viral marketing and many of these short snippets of concerts get lots of momentum on social media and garner marketing legs unlike something that can be paid for.

              Just my two pennies for the day.

              D
              Keeping the Harmony at Harmony Central

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Dendy Jarrett View Post
                I can remember years ago when this was simply a forbidden taboo and could possibly have landed you in Jail. We would have never thought of walking into a RUSH concert with a video camera on our shoulder, or a cassette tape player under our arm.
                But now with recording and video devices living on our mobile devices, it has suddenly become "acceptable"?
                I don't know if it's become completely socially acceptable yet or not. A Cell phone going off in the middle of a concert or movie is still an embarrassment for the phone's owner... taping / filming OTOH, may be looked at differently by some people. Back in the old days, bootleg recordings were done very under-the-radar, but they still happened - but the people doing them tried to remain as covert as possible, and there wasn't nearly the same "public distribution" as we get today via YouTube and the Internet.

                Today people are starting to become more emboldened and don't seem to care as much as they once did with keeping the fact that they're recording the event hidden and whether or not they're disturbing others who are watching the show. And maybe the solution to the issue is exactly that - encouraging societal disapproval for those who interrupt the concert experience for the other fans with their attempts to make poor quality recordings of the event. If the majority of the fans take a stance against it and consider it to be rude behavior, the peer pressure will tend to keep others from partaking in the activity.

                I understand that people like to have something to show they were there and to share with their friends from a concert event, but obviously we don't want to have them interrupting the show and ruining the experience for others - not to mention ignoring copyrights. The question is - how do we, as musicians, discourage taping and videoing our concerts, while acknowledging and facilitating the fan's understandable desire to have a sharable memento of the event?
                **********

                "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                - George Carlin

                "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                Comment


                • #10
                  Hey Dendy. I remember those days for sure and many folks got booted from shows.
                  Timothy made a good point regarding jazz performances and the desire to capture the moment.
                  The Grateful Dead (whom I've only seen once) encouraged fans to record shows. From what I understand and from what I've heard, no two shows were alike. In this case, the recordings helped grow the mystique.
                  Then there’s Rush (who I’ve only seen twice). First on a Monday at Madison Square Garden (NYC) then Wednesday at Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum (Uniondale, NY). I never went to see them again because both shows were as identical a humanly possible, even down to the solos. Taking into account what I look for in a live music performance, those two shows were an indicator that the rest of the tour wouldn’t be a heck of a lot different.
                  But then that’s an accomplishment if that’s what your fans want. Orchestral performances (for better or worse) are the same way. The early days of The Police were the perfect experience for me. Great songs that could handle varied interpretations.

                  Comment


                  • Dendy Jarrett
                    Dendy Jarrett commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I have a cousin that is a huge Deadhead. Due to their liberal record policy, he had a set of walnut drawers built down both sides of his media room (wall to wall, floor to ceiling) and he has now collected EVERY live performance that the GD ever played that had a recording made. They trade and collect these performances like baseball cards. He has thousands of then and it took many years, but his collection is now complete. I never got the DeadHead movement, but he is deeply rooted in it.

                • #11
                  Ultimately, I guess it should be up to the performers. Post signs, ask nicely if you see it once, and if you see it again walk off and tell the audience you'll come back when they sort it out.
                  ...

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    The performers can post signs and leave in protest if not obeyed or they can present a performance that
                    people want to experience in person. Beyonce, Justin, MDNA, Taylor, Katie etc, give robotic presentations that have no room for
                    error or expansion from night to night. For the most part their followers are paying premium prices just to lay eyes on them. The music is somewhat secondary. The Police are the model I appreciate most. No matter how many screaming teens were in the audience, they were matched by serious musicians that followed the band closely and got a fresh performance every show. Two extremes that make a nice balance.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Anderton
                      The reality, of course, is that no one in government really cares about intellectual property anyway, so I doubt any laws will change. The practice of recording has been become accepted by society, so the only shot at a resolution is disapproval by society and peer pressure.
                      Exactly... but as Brian was saying, at some shows, taping is not only allowed, it's encouraged. I've seen concerts where they even had a section down near the front roped off for people who wanted to record the show. I understand why some bands might want to encourage taping, and I am totally fine with that - as long as it's their songs and their copyrights, they can do whatever they want.

                      If the band is cool with it, that's one thing - but with the advent of smart phones with high-res cameras it's become so common to shoot a selfie or take a pic or video of darned near anything that strikes your fancy, and apparently that includes shows.... whether the band approves or not. And IMHO, that's definitely not cool.

                      Maybe more bands should make their policies about pictures and taping more clear and announce them more prominently at their shows, as Brian alluded to.
                      **********

                      "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                      - George Carlin

                      "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                      - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                      "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                      - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Dendy Jarrett View Post
                        I can remember years ago when this was simply a forbidden taboo and could possibly have landed you in Jail. We would have never thought of walking into a RUSH concert with a video camera on our shoulder, or a cassette tape player under our arm.
                        But now with recording and video devices living on our mobile devices, it has suddenly become "acceptable"?
                        That was my first thought. I still have an almost instinctive "no" reaction when I see someone recording because it was pounded into my head all those years at shows.

                        I was recently at a concert by the Cleveland Orchestra when a person whipped out her iPad and started recording. For a moment, I thought we were going to have a brawl in the isles. The reaction from the surrounding people was swift and immediate - and the iPad got stowed away, never to reappear.

                        Again, maybe it's my learning from going to shows for the last few decades, but I was struck how she had no hesitation, no pause.

                        "The ONCE FESTIVAL happened because a community of artists took matters into their own hands. They extended their responsibilities beyond the limits of producing their art into the organization and promotion of their art before the public." - Gordon Mumma, 1967.

                        Comment


                        • Dendy Jarrett
                          Dendy Jarrett commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I'm taken also by how many people will stop and film a bad accident or a fight between people, but will not intervene to stop or help. It is almost like we have forgotten how to be humans.

                      • #15
                        Like most worthwhile discussions, there are at least two positions to be considered.
                        1) The effects of cell phone vids on music/entertainment commerce (pro/con).
                        2) How individuals in society choose to use advanced. technologies. Whether for the public good or for self-gratification or self-aggrandizement as touched on by Dendy’s observation.

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