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1964 harmony archtop


Mattyblue

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1964 harmony archtop 1215 restoration

 

TL;DR I’m new and attempting my first restoration on my grandpa’s guitar

 

Hello everyone! I decided to restore an old harmony archtop my grandfather gave me before he passed. While researching the process I found this forum and decided to join and share my progress.

 

I was a carpenter in the Air Force for over 7 years, and I’ve done some pretty intricate wood and metal projects with inlays and detailed finishes, but I have never done any luthier work.

 

The guitar isn’t worth very much, but it was in decent salvageable condition. The wood (solid birch) was extremely dry due to being stored in an attic for the past 20 years. The action was high, and the neck was starting to separate from the body from string tension. The top and back were beginning to separate from the sides.

 

I removed the back pretty easily and seen the glue was a brown/red color and cracking/disintegrating when worked.

I managed to strip the finish on the back and sand to a workable surface. I am hoping that I can build a jig to put pressure on the heel and force the dovetail loose, since the glue is so dry rotted. Then reset the neck to achieve proper action.

 

I am also going to attempt to install new frets, although I can start to see a little bit of delamination of the fretboard.

 

I will try and post some pictures of my progress throughout. Any tips, advice, suggestions, and opinions are welcomed!

 

thanks for reading!

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Since you have the back off can you tell whether the glue is hide or not? Try a little very hot water and see if it dissolves - if so your neck reset will be quite easy. Build a steam generator (an old espresso machine works very well or a pressure cooker), pull the 15th fret and drill a hole into the neck pocket to allow you to inject the steam, the neck should slide right out. There are a lot of vids on the internet - if you need help let me know.

 

If it is hide glue then that should be your glue of choice for all repairs. One of the nice things about hide is that you can add new glue to old, but then as a carpenter you know that. If its not hide I don't know what other glue turns brown - in my experience PVA or AR does not. In any case if its not hide you need to get the old glue out of joints before you reattach anything.

 

Once the neck is off you are going to have to reset it so the guitar has the correct geometry. Some pictures would help me but basically you want the neck angle such that the fret plane will just hit the top of the bridge at its lowest adjustment. You'll achieve that by "flossing" the cheeks of the neck heel to change their angle, then putting thin shims in the dovetail to pull it neck tightly against the body.

 

Refretting is a pretty ambitious task for a new repair person - best to get a good book such as Dan Erlewine's (from Stewart McDonald). Its probably going to be easier to refret while the neck is off. You will make a small investment in tools - if you are only going to do this once it might be better to have it done professionally. Frets can make or break the playability of a guitar - your goal should be perfection. Again, if you need some help I can provide some pictures.

 

Refinishing is always a touchy subject - very few do it yourselfers can get anywhere close to a factory finish. There is a lot to be said for leaving original finish on an old guitar but since you've already started stripping you are pretty much committed. I would use a commercial stripper but remember that they will dissolve plastic binding, inlay and decals so use with care. My recommendation for finish is always nitrocellulose lacquer - that is probably what is on there now. Most of the H1215's that I've seen have a shaded or sunburst finish you'll have to decide whether to try to reproduce that - there are two ways it might have originally been done (either as a stain in the wood or tinted lacquer followed by some clear coats). I'm honestly not sure how Harmony did it in the - Gibson stained wood before WWII, after that they tint the lacquer. Again, posting some pictures before you get too far into it would be helpful.

 

The final part of your restoration will be setting it up for best playability. Once the neck angle and frets are perfect you'll need to make a new nut (unfortunately another investment in tools), adjust the relief (assuming it has an adjustable truss rod and it still works, if not there are some things you can do during your refret), setting the action and intonation.

 

There are a number of people here who can help you and I can point to some other forums and links. I build and repair guitars, but normally shy away from "restorations". I fix structural and geometry issues first (neck reset, frets and any broken things) - most of the time its better to not try to improve the cosmetics.

 

Anyway, lets see your pictures

 

ps - here is a pretty good set of information about the H1215, one of Harmony's iconic models

 

http://harmony.demont.net/guitars/H1215/30.htm

 

pps - Welcome to Harmony Central

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Matty, one other thought. As I said, there are people here who can help you (and some who will give you really bad advice), but honestly I think you should join the Official Luthiers Forum

 

http://luthiersforum.com/forum/

 

and post your question in the restoration and repair section

 

http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10137&sid=c6f744fccc9e884d79c48417b1e9529b

 

These guys are the best professionals (and amateurs) in the business and are very supportive of new people. In fact I would suggest that you post some questions and pictures there before you go any further.

 

Either way I'll watch what you are doing and try to give my humble advice

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Thank you for your advice with this project! I will try and determine whether or not it is bone hide hlue but my first impression is that it’s not. The glue looks very red almost crimson, but I will apply heat and see if it soluble.

 

Yes, the refretting concerns me more than resetting the neck as it seems like a more tedious job, but I’m pretty confident that if I take my time and follow the correct procedures I can achieve a better end result than what Iis on it now.

 

As for the finish, it was a tobacco sunburst and they used an unknown technique to create a faux figued wood looki. My plan so far was to recreate the sunburst look using stain, then varnishing it with tounge oil but I will look into the nitrocellulose laquer option.

 

I tried posting pictures but they’re too big to post so I’ve got to downsize them first.

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Found one here. https://reverb.com/item/1127879-harmony-archtone-h1215-1964-sunburst-archtop-vintage

Those were mass produced guitars mostly sold through mail order catalogs so I wouldn't be surprised is it was epoxied together. its main deficiency was having a non adjustable truss rod. If the neck is badly warped bout the only thing you can do is level the fret board or replace it. The original frets on those guitars were pretty bad, raw cut with little polishing. Not sure how much meat is left for leveling but you could try it before replacing them.

 

As far as learning to refret its not a bad choice toe learn on. If the instruments in bad shape to begin with its not like it has allot of value so why not.

Its usually easier to start on a guitar with a removable neck but it really depends on your method. I prefer to glue and press my frets in which is more difficult on a mounted neck but I typically use heavy frets that don't seat very well hammering them in. You'll need to decide which method you prefer.

 

Good luck on the rest of it. Sometimes an old banger like that can wind up sounding very good if you can get it back together in one piece. I restored an early 60's Teisco which had a missing back on it and it wasn't the best looking restoration I've done but the old dried out antique wood wound up sounding amazing so you never know how they can wind up sounding.

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I tried posting pictures but they’re too big to post so I’ve got to downsize them first.

 

I'll address some of your other comments when I've seen pictures. Easiest way to down size them is to open them with plain old MS paint (right click, choose "open with"). There will be a button on the toolbar that says "resize". Click it and it will say 100 percent. Try a smaller value, I usually use 50, then save it as a new name. Click the advanced editor button here at HC (the A with the line under it) and upload the picture. Its a bit of a hassle but it does work.

 

 

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Heres a few more of the neck and fretboard, the frets are pretty shot and need replaced imo. The glue used has got to be old epoxy, unless they used something else for the neck joint than what they used on the body. I tapped the headstock on the table accidentally, not very hard at all and the nut just fell off lol..

0c86d1ef52200631ced19c5726e66358.thumb.jpg.bc5a5bd9956b4122e26a201fbb8e5c7a.jpg

45b3f8dd03100eb70af5048905e8a1de.thumb.jpg.44a427eb50e8dbf790dddc2bf1269cbc.jpg

2871eb5080658a7c85f1706339f76c61.thumb.jpg.56a4ffd4cbc18602fb14f5a858742d75.jpg

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Thanks for posting the pictures - I see so many different things that I'd like to comment on but I don't know where to start.

 

First, I'm going to ask some very basic questions - the most basic is exactly what are your expectations? What do you mean buy saying you are doing a "restoration"? Do you want to make it look like new or like a well loved 50 year old guitar. Do you plan to play it and if so, how critical are you of how it will play? How well do you understand the geometry of a guitar? Are you willing to buy some specialized tools? Are you willing to practice some techniques on scrap or are you going to dive right in to the guitar? Do you have a glue pot and know how to use HHG?

 

Lets start with a couple of fundimentals - find out what kind of glue that is. Try dissolving it in very hot water - it it dissolves easily your work is going to be a whole lot easier. Old Harmonies are one of the classic guitars for learning to do a neck reset - I have always heard that their necks come off easily which leads me to be pretty convinced its HHG.

 

If its hide you can reglue the top and back pretty - fresh hide glue will reconstitute the old stuff. If its not hide you will have to completely clean up any joint that you are going to reglue and use a modern AR glue like Titebond or LMI white glue. Don't use anything else - not epoxy or CA or Gorilla glue or Franklin hide glue (it is not the same as HHG).

 

Remove the neck. Heat the fretboard extension with either a heating blanket or an iron. Since you are going to do a refret anyway you can pull the frets now (use heat on them to minimize damage to the board). Once the f/b extension is loose from the top drill two holes in the 15th fret into the dovetail pocket. Altho it doesn't have an adjustable truss rod it does have steel reinforcement which probably extends into the heel - drill one each side. Build yourself a steam generator and inject steam into the pocket - it should come apart pretty easily. Here is my home made neck press - often it isn't necessary

 

IMG_1133_zps81fcfeca.jpg

 

Here is a picture of a dovetail joint apart. As the neck slides down into the pocket it pulls the cheeks of the heel against the body of the guitar.

 

IMG_3545_zpsoyi1x3go.jpg

 

Your goal is that the fretboard plane should just hit the bridge at its lowest adjusted position

 

IMG_1656_zpsc46ad7ab.jpg

 

While the neck is off you should refret it but be very careful of the f/b extension - support it while you work on that end of the neck. Here is a thread about a partial fret job - it will give you an idea of the steps involved. You have one thing easier - your board is not bound so you don't need to notch the ends of the frets - just run them to the edge of the board and dress them back. Of course you will be doing the entire board.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-42/31665790-stainless-steel-refret

 

Since you do not have an adjustable truss rod before you pull the old frets measure the relief and record it. If you have a lot of relief consider compression fretting or sanding the board nearly flat (keep the 12 inch radius of course). If it was my guitar I would level the board perfectly flat, then level the frets themselves, assuming that string tension will pull a few thousands of relief into the finished board.

 

 

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While the neck is off the body I would suggest dealing with the finish. Frankly I think that is going to be your big problem - getting anywhere close to the original finish will be hard for a do it yourself person. The original finish would have been aniline stain applied directly to the wood. Gibson used to do it by hand which is really hard to control. I've had the best luck spraying with either an airbrush or a detail gun. You can dilute the dye with either alcohol or water - that somewhat depends on your final finish. I like alcohol because I only use lacquer and I can control the bleeding of colors. Here is a three color "tobacco burst" on a mandolin,

 

[img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i51.photobucket.com\/albums\/f387\/Freeman_Keller\/Mandolin\/Front2.jpg"}[/img2]

 

[img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i51.photobucket.com\/albums\/f387\/Freeman_Keller\/Mandolin\/Front3.jpg"}[/img2]

 

Front4.jpg

 

Your burst will only have the amber and brown, you'll want to make it pretty dark around the edge.

 

I don't know how they make the faux flame, the real stuff happens because the flame absorbs the stain at a different rate than the non-flamed area

 

[img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i51.photobucket.com\/albums\/f387\/Freeman_Keller\/Mandolin\/IMG_0412.jpg"}[/img2]

 

After you do your 'burst seal it with a couple of coats of clear. As I understand it, the "binding" is merely painted on, mask and shoot it, then pull the masking and shoot a dozen or so coats of clear.

 

(I'm going to make one simple statement here - tung oil is furniture finish, it is not a good finish for a musical instrument. If you insist on using it I can't give any advice - you'll need to experiment on scrap and figure out how to make it work. I don't think you will be happy with it, but I don't know what your expectations are)

 

Glue the neck back on, the f/b extension gets glued lightly. The only place you need glue in the pocket is the angled part of the dovetail - do the next repair person a favor and use hide or AR and not too much.

 

Now put all the bits and pieces back together, do the setup and enjoy your new/old guitar. You commented on the nut - it should be very lightly glued in - I use two small drops of medium CA - just enough to keep it in place but you need to be able to remove it. You may want to up grade your tuners

 

 

 

 

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Wow, thanks for the great insight to this process and posting your pictures as well! As for guitar geometry, I’m not too familiar as I am just a novice player and have never done work on one. My expectations on this “restoration” or rebuild are pretty low, as I’d be happy if I could get it all back together and put strings on it. I don’t see myself playing it very often, and if it still sounds like a cintage 60’s archtop with decent tone, that would just be a plus.

 

As for the finish, I am either going to try and hand rub a sunburst, or have my neighbor who is an amazing airbrush artist do it. He’s already seen the original finish and said he could replicate the sunburst pretty easily. But before I have him do it, I will practice rubbing a sunburst finish on some scrap.

 

At this point I’m thankful there’s no binding on this guitar because that would just be even more work. Once I get the frets out, I will try and diagnose whether or not I think I should level the board. I’m hopeful that removing the neck won’t be too difficult, as it’s already beginning to separate. If pressure and a light shocking blow doesn’t jar it loose, I guess I could try to inject steam but I’m pretty certain its not hide glue.

 

The tuners are in decent shape and I’ve begun cleaning and polishing them. None of them were bound up and they all move freely, almost too easily.

 

Since the birch is so dry I am wondering if I should try to humidify the wood to get some moisture content back into it before finishing.

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OK, take it one step at a time and try to do a good job with each one. If you were close to me I would be happy to help you with some of the more difficult tasks, probably the best I can do here is try to answer questions. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass or anything when I asked those questions - different people will have entirely different responses which makes a big difference in my advice.

 

I asked about your understanding of guitar geometry because that will make or break its ability to be played. When I am building a guitar I am constantly checking that, and when you think about it, that is the whole reason to take the neck off in the first place. I wish I'd had a chance to talk to you before you started - I would have suggested taking a bunch of measurements (and I would have tried to steer you in a different direction). Too late now, so lets do the best we can.

 

I honestly don't come to the DIY forum very often, its very slow moving and most of the stuff I'm not interested in. You might want to shoot me a PM when you post new pictures or questions. Also, as I said, the Official Luthiers Forum is a far better place to be asking.

 

I think you underestimate what is involved with refinishing a guitar. I have built and finished 24 to date, I'm still struggling to get it better. One of my very first finishing projects was a 1932 Dobro that someone had painted black. I stripped it (birch plywood), hand wiped a mild edgeburs tstain and shot nitro lacquer. It is OK, certainly far from perfect. If you have a friend who does detail paint work it would be very helpful, but remember that the products used on instruments are different that cars or motorcycles or furniture.

 

Lastly, when stored wood will equalize to its surrounding relative humidity. Any guitar is happiest at somewhere around 40 - 45% RH - however if its extremely dry you can force it back to that level. All of my instruments are stored in cases with a little humidifier in the case, I also try to maintain 40% in both my music room and my shop. During the winter that is hard, but its worth trying.

 

Good luck, let me know anything I can do to help.

 

 

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On the refret -- I've read that those Harmony's, and my Monterey Tenor is confirmation, use a type of "baked maple" for the fretboard and brass frets. Apparently when you pull the frets the fretboard starts to fall apart and can be a real disaster to get back together. It may be wise to find someone with Harmony refret experience before pulling frets.

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