BEST TONE CAPS

[guitar Dan]

Hi all

 

ive just fitted some gibson burstbucker 1 & 2 into my lads jap made 70,s columbus and it sounds great

 

just wondered if i could up date the tone caps and wich are the best brand to buy. for epiphone lp fitted with a p 90 neck,burstbucker 2 bridge,rg320 fa ibanez fitted with a jb4 sey & dunc bridge and sh-1 neck

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOdX6vxOnO4 (Dan playing his lp epi with standard epi p,ups through marshall valve combo )

 

thanks

Steve in sunny Almeria

[WRGKMC]

Most like the orange drop or bumble bee caps. I think the square porcelin are the best tone wise. I dont use tone controlls much except on my tele when I have new strings. The tele has a small square green one which are made of the same stuff the orange drops are.

[guitar Dan]

thanks for the info

are thair difrent rated caps for diffrent pick ups,or can i just simply order by name ie orange drop or bumble ,with no rating.

 

thanks

 

Steve & Dan

[WRGKMC]

Most tone cape are between .01 to .05 uf. the higher the value the more it will cut high frequencies. Best way to go since they're cheap is get a few different values and test them out to see what you want.

 

A quick way to test the maximum cut is to unscrew a guitar jack in one end so the connections are visable and then take the cap across the center connector and ground. keep all the other controlls turned up and then just touch the contacts with the two wires after strumming the guitar. Keep in mind the pot will vary the ammount when installed, but you can get an idea of the maximum cut you may want.

 

 

The most used values are

 

.047uf (microfarads) typically used with humbuckers and guitars with 500K pots

 

.022uf are used typically used on guitars with single coils and 250K pots.

 

On gibsons, with humbuckers I usually opt for .033 which is a middel of the road for both guitars. I dont like a super muffeled guitar. I like to just take the edge off with new strings. HBs .033uf usually does the job.

 

Prices will vary alot on the orange drops. I've seen outrageous prices on them by pirates trying to rip people off. I'd stick with a place like Mouser and price some up. If you see much more than a dollar each, keep looking. Just google Sprague orange drop caps and then dig. Heres the Mouser prices.

 

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=sprague+orange+drop+capacitors

 

 

 

 

Heres some .047 at the bottom of this page. they're a bit pricey here.

http://www.pedalhackermods.com/servlet/the-Sprague-Orange-Drop-Capacitors/Categories

 

Heres some for less than a buck each but you got to buy at least 10.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sprague-715P-.033uF-800v-orange-drop-capacitors,-Lot%2f25_W0QQitemZ390024386602QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&itemid=390024386602

 

Not sure what the exchange rate with euros is but heres some more variety.

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/english-store/TAD-Sprague-Orange-Drop-c-35_80/

[guitar Dan]

thanks for the info really helpfull.

keep on rocking

Steve & Dan

[Belva]

Rat Shack has the small square green ones cheap. And in the 2 common values found on guitars.

[guitar Dan]

ok,thanks will give it a look, Steve

[Mr.Grumpy]

I'm seriously skeptical about this business of some type of caps "sounding" better than others - especially when used as a guitar's passive tone control. As long as the capacitance value is correct, it shouldn't matter, right? I can see where a "wound" capacitor (foil & dielectric film rolled up) might have some stray inductance, but enough to make an audible difference, compared to say, a ceramic disc cap? Has anyone seriously tested this with "blind" A/B testing? If you know of some reason(s) the orange drop or "bumblebee" caps sound better, I'd love to know.

[PunkKitty]

Honestly, when I rewire a guitar I don't pay that much attention to the caps. I've put ceramic disc caps in some guitars and they sound as good to me as orange drops. I've noticed that Gibson uses ceramic discs on the Melody Maker and my MM sounds great. I've had the worst luck with the square ones from Radio Shack. I'll only use those in an emergency.

[SoldierStape01]

Ya know the blind A/B test would be a good test. I might have to try this. I'm going to do it 2 ways I think. One with my fiance who has about no understanding of guitars and such, and my buddy who plays and has done some work, more so just hangs out and bugs me in my shop....

 

I'm seriously skeptical about this business of some type of caps "sounding" better than others - especially when used as a guitar's passive tone control. As long as the capacitance value is correct, it shouldn't matter, right? I can see where a "wound" capacitor (foil & dielectric film rolled up) might have some stray inductance, but enough to make an audible difference, compared to say, a ceramic disc cap? Has anyone seriously tested this with "blind" A/B testing? If you know of some reason(s) the orange drop or "bumblebee" caps sound better, I'd love to know.

[Belva]

Blind A/B test is all good & fine. But you'll have to rig up that thang that WRG posted to make it work. 2 identical guitars aint gonna be identical. I'd like to know how this goes. I'm of the cap type don't matter school of thought as well. I don't see it making any difference. The people who sell the expensive caps are full of bovine feces & trying to rip us off IMO.

[SoldierStape01]

I agree. But, I do like to see the evidence for myself. I plan on rigging up a setup like WRG mentioned above. I have a small little box thingy that I think mounting the pot and well as my clips on will work very well...

 

Yea I don't see there being any mindblowing difference in the caps, but I'm always open to what i find and seeing how it plays out.

[stratotak]

Yeah..But I would think you would need to do more than 2 people to have it mean anything. what If the 2 people you do this test with have bad ears and couldnt tell the difference anyway. I believe ears are just like eyes..Some people have perfect vision some people.. not so much. Some people are color blind. What If buddy hasn't cleaned his ears in ages and has enough wax in there to wax a surf board??ARe you going to make sure they have cleaned there ears before hand..lol..I think a blind test ..to mean anything would have to have more than 2 people involved..More like 50 ..thats like doing a blind test of which is better coke or pepsi and only do 2 people..Not going to mean to much..By the way..coke for me.lol.

[Belva]

When doing a true blind test you do need lots of people & a control group. But we're talking about testing cheap ass caps here. I'll bet you could get a gov't. grant but I'll just keep using the rat shack caps. I've had good luck with them. And I'll bet if you get green caps from Small Bear or anywhere else they will be from the same manufacturer/s as the rat shack ones.

[SoldierStape01]

Good Point. I love when people say {censored} like I got these Pots and switches here or there or GC or all that {censored}, I hate tell everyone but 99% are produced by Weimhammer (sp) and just packaged differently

lol

[WRGKMC]

Where you might notice it most is if you plug the guitar into a high quality amp with decent headphones set real flat and clean.

 

I notice a bit more mids retained with the orange drops kinda like a mild wah pedal set in the middel, vs a complete blanket rolled across the high frequencies muffeling it up. I like to retain mids when using tones and its all in how sharp the caps rolloff the high frequencies.

 

Still, with the use of a pot the ammount of dimming can be adjusted so it isnt hyper critical, but when you're running a hot tube amp those mids that are retained can make a nice edge in the breakup. An example might be the kind of sound Mark Knofler gets to the chords to that song, "I want my MTV".

(He may be using any kinds of parametric eqing in the studio I'm sure but as an example of tone rolloff on a strat it can be a good example of mids retained with trebble rolloff)

[Victory]

I have a buddy that uses SOZO caps and swears by them. He finally gave me one to put in my LP doublecut to try out. It has a subtle difference from the original cap , sounds better IMO , not a dramatic difference though. the value I used was .022uf for the Burst bucker pro's I have. They are availible here. http://www.sozoamplification.com/

[keenesound65]

Well. I think there be some kind of magic to tone caps. Im no expert and do not posses the key info and knowledge.. Im here looking for it. Paper in Oil ive heard of rave reviews by old school guitarists that desire and aquired the "woman tone" . Those of us searching for this need more info. Some how to me , ceramic anything brings a harsh, edgy tone. Although can be controlled . I want somethin silky, and sexy. Like A great woman. .

[Belva]

Got news for you. You aint gonna get a silky, sexy woman by changing the cap/s in your guitar. You get them by ripping some serious leads & buying them a drink or three.

[WRGKMC]

Great tone comes from a great tube amp. Theres no substitute and caps alone wont get you that sound if you have an inferior setup. Caps simply round off the edge of the instrument and if the guitar has great tone the top end thats cut off can leave a nice middel "Woman Tone" the speakers can emulate when pushed.

 

What many dont know is thet tone was achieved with a Dallas Arbeter trebble booster used to drive the high end of a tube amp into saturation. Then with the use of just about any tone caps will give you that cool midrangey sound.

[Belva]

 

Great tone comes from a great tube amp. Theres no substitute and caps alone wont get you that sound if you have an inferior setup. Caps simply round off the edge of the instrument and if the guitar has great tone the top end thats cut off can leave a nice middel "Woman Tone" the speakers can emulate when pushed. What many dont know is thet tone was achieved with a Dallas Arbeter trebble booster used to drive the high end of a tube amp into saturation. Then with the use of just about any tone caps will give you that cool midrangey sound.

 

 

Great point. I was a solid state snob. Then I got a good price on an old tube P.A. head. Cap job & tubes later I'm a per/ I mean convert. Something about that natural tube breakup that just can't be imitated. BTW anyone run across the 35W Grommes/ Precision tube heads let me know. I want a lifetime supply.

[SoldierStape01]

I am gettin myself prepared to do probably a 15 or 20w head and matching cab when I come back from our wedding vaca in the beginning of the year....

[katillac]

Got news for you. You aint gonna get a silky, sexy woman by changing the cap/s in your guitar. You get them by ripping some serious leads & buying them a drink or three.

The silky, sexy ones like those 80s ballad band leads. Serious metal wheedly wheedly arpeggio leads only attract wannabe guitar wonks and drunken sluts.

[WRGKMC]

When you listen to crank guitars up to the metal zone recorded you may be able to tell if the guitar has a humbucker or single pups, and maybe if the amps played through a marshall or some darker amp, but thats about it. You cant identify the instrument by its tonal charecturistics. Pups, pots, caps, wood, and string tone and dynamics all get burried.

 

Played loud through a tube amp the real guitar tone is much easier to identify. Its also easier to tell if the guitar tone sucks and its playability is managable including intonation, frets, neck, body acoustics etc. A truely great guitar, well setup will shimmer and play well through a cranked tube amp and enhance the guitarists playing ability. Grundgeing up the sound with foot pedals, hides an instruments true dynamics too. This is good for a guitar with suckey dynamics because they're hidden, but it also hides a guitars faults making them hard to identify so a player can take action and tweak the instrument to its peak performance. In this way a cheap instrument properly tweaked can be made to sound and play much better than an great instrument having its misadjustments burried by noise.

 

I have the same old 67 Bassman Blackface I've used all my life and the thing still makes a guitar sound great. It takes a 100W solid state amything to keep up it. I run a Marshall on a slant 4X12" cab at 50%. I run the Bassman on 3 through four 10" Jensons and it has the same DB level as the marshall (As per a DB meter)

 

Back in the day you were luckey to have a good guitar and amp. Noone used crutch pedals much because there all sucked away the good tone. You also had to learn real controll over the power vs it controlling you. When you listen to Clapton play crying leads to something like wonderful tonight, that control and technique was aquired by playing through loud tube amps pushing "air" and taking advantage of 100% of the dynamics. Using gain pedals crops those dynamics and robs the performer of the use of those same dynamics making his sound 2 dimentional in comparison.

 

I'm not against pedals by the way, I have at least 10 or 12 on my pedal board including 5 different gain pedals. I dont use them the same as a beginner might though. I have them set for incremented stages of drive and tonal changes for playing leads and only have one set for over the top marshall sound (and its a marshall pedal I use to get that sound). I do like the leslie pedal and chorus and I do have various echos and reverbs as well. I use them to recreate the effects in recordings i've made. I have learned by all that recording to retain at least 50% clean for most playing. Any more and the instrument gets swallowed up by the drum cymbal wash.

[SoldierStape01]

It is amazing when you look at the sound that the combination of a guitar and great tube amp can make just setting the gain up around 6-7 and pushing some volume. That alone is great but if you add in moderation some a nice effect or maybe 2, it truly shows how less is really more. Just like a great cook, season well but simple flavors are by far the best and over seasoning can kill any dish.