I need Guitar Paint suggestions please. .

[DaveGrima]

Im about to buy this American strat I found. Its really cheap because someone did an awful relicing job on it. (see pics) I want to refinish it in something other than Nitro for a change. What kind of paint is good for guitars that I can use in a spray can? Acrylic maybe? Whats a good brand to use and where can I order it online? I was thinking of painting it Pewter like the old Clapton Strats. Anyone know off hand where I can get this color? Thanks.

[Belva]

Acryllic lacquer is my fave. Duplicolor is my choice. Just don't use the Duplicolor clear. It's not consistent and you may end up with a sticky guitar. Get Deft clear to go over it.

[DaveGrima]

Ok thanks. Does it go on pretty thin? How many coats should use? How long does it take to dry? KNow any good tutorials on painting guitars with Acrylic?

[Belva]

 

Ok thanks. Does it go on pretty thin? How many coats should use? How long does it take to dry? KNow any good tutorials on painting guitars with Acrylic?

 

If you've done nitro you can do acryllic. No difference whatsoever in application. The only difference between the two is the binder used. Lacquer is lacquer. Acryllic just doesn't yellow like nitro, which I think is a good thing. With the new smaller cans I'd go one for color and two for the Deft clear. Same rule of threes, same thin coats, same one month wait when the last clear goes on. Reranch does have agood primer (pun intended) on spraying nitro. Use that you'll be fine.

[DaveGrima]

OK last question. Wheres a good place to buy it from online that has a good selection of colors? Thanks!

[DaveGrima]

Is this waht I need? Acrylic enamel?

 

http://duplicolor.com/products/premiumEnamel/

[WRGKMC]

No do not use enamil, ever.

 

I'd stay away from acrylics all together myself and just go with straight lacquer.

Acrylics are not the same thing. Duplicolor sells plain enamil. thats the only one I'd use.

 

Custom Tele may have had good success with acrylics but its not the norm for guitars.

I've also read enough horror stories where people used acrylics and tried to apply regular

clearcoat over it and had chemical rejections to know its not a good medium unless you

stick with the same manufactures recomended products for the whole job.

Even then acrylics havent been around long enough to pass the test of time like normal

lacquer has proven itself.

 

You want guitar paint, you can buy just about any color you want.

Just drive down to your local auto parts store and buy spray cand auto body lacquer in spray cans.

They often sell the clear coat as well. Read the label for the chemical ingrediants.

Get plain lacquer. You can buy clear lacquer in any hardware store as well.

You probibly need one or two cans of the paint and 2 cans of the clear coat to get a glassy factory guitar look.

You can also buy shellac at the hardware store. you need to put that on as a primer and sand it super smooth.

If you do that first you may only need onecan of paint. If you applu the paint dirtectly to the wood, you will need

two cans and still risk the grain showing.

[Belva]

Duplicolor does make lacquer.Their touch up paints are actyllic lacquer. You may try Auto Zone O'reilly auto parts or stores such as that. Chances are good, if you live in the U.S., there is a store near you. If they don't have a color you like, go thru the book they have and get an idea. Then Google that color to see if it's what you want. Part of the reason I prefer Duplicolor is the wide selection of colors. I've also found that their filler primer is great right after using a good lacquer sand and sealer. Helps fill in the tiny imperfections that are always present.

[DaveGrima]

CustomTele, Is this what I need? http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Dupli-Color-8-oz-pewter-metallic-Perfect-Match-paint/_/N-25gw?counter=45&itemIdentifier=59722_0_0_

[flump]

 

No do not use enamil, ever. I'd stay away from acrylics all together myself and just go with straight lacquer. Acrylics are not the same thing. Duplicolor sells plain enamil. thats the only one I'd use. Custom Tele may have had good success with acrylics but its not the norm for guitars. I've also read enough horror stories where people used acrylics and tried to apply regular clearcoat over it and had chemical rejections to know its not a good medium unless you stick with the same manufactures recomended products for the whole job. Even then acrylics havent been around long enough to pass the test of time like normal lacquer has proven itself. You want guitar paint, you can buy just about any color you want. Just drive down to your local auto parts store and buy spray cand auto body lacquer in spray cans. They often sell the clear coat as well. Read the label for the chemical ingrediants. Get plain lacquer. You can buy clear lacquer in any hardware store as well. You probibly need one or two cans of the paint and 2 cans of the clear coat to get a glassy factory guitar look. You can also buy shellac at the hardware store. you need to put that on as a primer and sand it super smooth. If you do that first you may only need onecan of paint. If you applu the paint dirtectly to the wood, you will need two cans and still risk the grain showing.

 

 

I don't even know where to start here. Acrylic lacquer is lacquer. It's just the binding agent is acrylic as opposed to nitrocellulose as cutomtele mentioned. Fender used it a {censored} ton back in the 60's for their metallic paints. It goes onjust like nitro. Also you say he should go down to the local auto parts store and buy lacquer? There's like a 90% chance its going to be acrylic lacquer if its at an auto parts store. It's been around just as long as nitro.

[Belva]

 

CustomTele, Is this what I need? http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Dupli-Color-8-oz-pewter-metallic-Perfect-Match-paint/_/N-25gw?counter=45&itemIdentifier=59722_0_0_

 

That is the stuff. BTW, nitro clear will work over acryllic lacquer. Reranch has rattle cans of it.

Also acryllic enamel is a whole 'nother stuff.

[DaveGrima]

This one is the closest match to the Clapton pewter, excepts its metallic. Check these out side by side and tell me what you think.

[tvvoodoo]

I've been wondering about the krylon satin nickle. I purchased a couple cans, thinking about attacking a bass guitar with it.

Just throwing it out there. (its the one on the right)

 

[Johnny Two Tone]

I've used straight lacquer as well as Duplicolor Acrylic Lacquer. One thing with the acrylic lacquer sprays is that it goes in so damn thin that if you want a protective layer you have to coat, coat, coat, coat and coat some more. Much more than when I used lacquer and a compressor. You can also use straight lacquer over top of acrylic lacquer so it's easy to get many colors in acrylic lacquer than find a quality lacquer for the clear coat.

[WRGKMC]

 

I don't even know where to start here. Acrylic lacquer is lacquer. It's just the binding agent is acrylic as opposed to nitrocellulose as cutomtele mentioned. Fender used it a {censored} ton back in the 60's for their metallic paints. It goes onjust like nitro. Also you say he should go down to the local auto parts store and buy lacquer? There's like a 90% chance its going to be acrylic lacquer if its at an auto parts store. It's been around just as long as nitro.

 

 

 

fender used both acrylic and cellulose laquers but they werent the same as whay you're buying today. Most have been abandoned for

poly lacquers. The nitrocellulose lacquer were celluloid based, and promoted quick color fading and checking.

Dupont did develop acrylics that Fender eventually used. They did use the Nitrocellulose clearcoat on most guitars which is a cotton

extract added to the lacquer to make it hard but it did yellow over time.

There have been vast changes to lacquers over the years, each having consequences when combined.

 

Its the specific acrylic binding agent that can causes problems. You may have a very specific window for applying certain acrylics especially water based.

if you miss that time frame window the next coat doesnt bind properly and may not harden at all.

 

Heres an example of a classic failure to bind in this thread. http://www.reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=44428&sid=caddcabbf33984aaa8d832e67f9bb179

He either missed the window or used the wrong combination of chemicals. Not all lacquers are the same and not all lacquers are compatible with each other.

You even have water based acrylic lacquers that dry through oxidization and polymerization, vs evaporation in your alcohol based lacquers normally used on guitars

 

Acrylics are Thermoplastics that are often used in enamils and cause them to shine but they are very slow drying and remain flexable which is not so good for guitar work.

A hard finish carries vibrations better than a softer flexable finish.

 

The specific automotive acrylic I'm talking about doesnt contain acetone and is often sold as "acrylic lacquer" vs just plain lacquer.

Plain lacquer may contain acrylics or cellulose, or a combination.

Acetone is contained in your normal lacquers and melts into the previous coat, You can apply

additional coats years later and they will melt into the previous finish. Some of the touch up spraye are sold

specifically as "acrylic touch up paint". They lack the acetone and do not melt into the previous coats, they cling to them.

 

The problem with touching up with regular lacquer is if applied with a heavy coat, the lacquer can act like a paint remover

when it quickly reacts and disolves the previous coats. They modify the acrylic touch up paint so it does not melt the previous coates of paint.

They dont give allot of details on the manufacturers websites, but if you view the material safety data sheets, they do list the chemicals.

The duplicolor acrylic touch up paint doesnt contain the acetone which is a normal thinner for lacquer and causes it to melt into previous coats.

 

Keep in mind, I'm no chemical expert. Information on compatibilities are extremely limited on the net. My concern is I've seen allot of failures and

had enough of my own to suggest you read and follow the manufacturers instructions. I'm still not 100% sure on the chemical details and the

manufacturers use of the word acrylic surely confuses the situation. They should use synthetic lacquer or some other term to describe the touch up

paint. They all contain lacquer yes, but thats no longer the only consideration. Its all the other stuff added and what they call it which is the problem.

 

I will say this if the products you're combining all have acetone then you are probibly OK to mix them. Its the ley thinner that will melt into previous coats

and cause it to dry quickly. MEK is very simular to acetone as it will dry quickly. I used to use it to remove magic marker from autobody paint. it leaves the paint untouched.

My guess is some touch up paints use MEK (metheyl Ethyl Keytone) instead of acetone. it disolves the lacquer and vinyl and dries quickly but it doesnt disolve the previous

paint applied. It coats over the old paint.

 

This is one reason why I I suggest you be careful when you mix and match brands and types of chemicals. You can run into problems and with

some peoples experience levels, they will luck out and pick the wrong combinations. I do not know all the the possible side effects and

I'm sorry I dont have all the answers here. I just know they are much more complex then most think and its all due to manufacturers tricks.

You can use manufacturers recomendations and get them to work. They are the experts but they also have specific guidelines for their chemical combinations.

 

As an example, The last guitar I painted,

I didnt use the manufacturers specific primer. The result was the paint easily chips off now like an eggshell when I get a ding.

That wouldnt happen if I had used the matching primer. The paint needed that primer to join with it. I did use the matching

clear coat so that had no issues, but the proper method would be to use all matching chemicals. The Primer would have adhered

to the wood properly, the paint would adher to the primer and the top coat to the paint properly.

 

If you use different manufacturers for the three different applications, thats where you are taking a crap shoot, and thats my main concern for others.

 

They may use certain combinations of chemicals that allow their own applications to adhere properly, and reject a competitors.

I know manufacturers do this. It prevents large users from using low cost substitutes when they are in a pinch. Even Fender used all kinds of substitute

paints and look at all the problems thay had. They wrote the book on {censored} ups.

 

Anyway, my comments were specifically targeting "non" acetone lacquers which manufacturers commonly call acrylic touch up paint now.

They do lack the specifics in advertisements trying to make things simple for customers. In the process it causes allot of confusion.

 

Read this and it gives basics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer

 

Your regular acrylic lacquers arent being used by auto manufacturers any more on new cars so the older laquers are getting harder to find.

Most have gone to polys because they are more durable and many touch up paints is designed to adhere to poly so be sure to read the contents and instructions carefully.

[Belva]

WRG is correct in that not all lacquers work well together, but waiting time and thin coats can get them to cooperate. It was also mentioned that Duplicolor takes quite a few coats to cover when compared to using a gun and compressor. That's also true. My personal experience is that Rustoleum clear lacquer doesn't want to work with anything. But yet Deft clear will work with everything. The brush on Deft thinned with lacquer thinner thru my touch up gun is my personal favorite as it sets up quick. Could it be that additives are put in to make the Rustoleum incompatible? I never really thought about that. WRG is probably correct on that note.

Lately I've been painting a few friends guitars and I'm starting to get an idea how to do it with a 3 week turn time. If they want it stripped to bare wood, I double the price. Poly is a good base IF you use shellc or a shellac based primer BEFORE moving to the color coats.

[DaveGrima]

Anyone ever seen this stuff? One coat lacquer, no primer or clear coat required. Sounds convenient. . http://www.testors.com/category/137167/One_Coat_Lacquers

[DaveGrima]

OK I found an exact match for the Clapton pewter but its "textured" paint. What the hell is that? Does it come out feeling rough? Can I sand it smooth?

 

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=27

[Average_Joe]

OK I found an exact match for the Clapton pewter but its "textured" paint. What the hell is that? Does it come out feeling rough? Can I sand it smooth? http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=27

Yes, textured paints are designed to come out rough. There are different textures available, and they are good for covering rough surfaces to hide or disguise flaws. I've painted plenty rusty metal pieces with very little prep time and have a good looking result. I don't think a guitar is a good application. I believe it is an enamel paint anyways.

[DaveGrima]

It doesnt say anywhere on the tech readout that its enamel. It says the resin type is solvent acrylic with acetone, etc.

 

http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/tds/CBG_TDS_SR_Textured%20Sprays_5034790_2.pdf

 

What if I just use enough clear coat over it to cover the roughspots?

[WRGKMC]

Rustoleum is for metal. I'd never use it on a guitar.

[Average_Joe]

 

It doesnt say anywhere on the tech readout that its enamel. It says the resin type is solvent acrylic with acetone, etc. http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/tds/CBG_TDS_SR_Textured%20Sprays_5034790_2.pdf What if I just use enough clear coat over it to cover the roughspots?

 

 

The paint has something in it to cause it to defect in a predictable and consistant way to give it texture. Any clear that is compatible with it will probably develope the same texture. These are great paints for painting tractors, rusty wheel rims, picnic tables, patio furniture, etc., but this will be nothing but headaches if you want a smooth durable finish on a guitar.

[flump]

 

Rustoleum is for metal. I'd never use it on a guitar.

 

 

Basically all paints used for guitars were originally designed for cars (metal) including nitro. I see no reason he shouldn't try it.

 

For the OP. I'd say grab a can of whatever you want and try it on a very small portion of the back of the guitar.

 

It's true that different brands of the same type of paint can have bad reactions. Everyone in here has their own experience with whatever they've used. Most of it being with nitro, polyurethane, or other lacquer. If you really want that specific color I'd say buy a can of whatever you can find. Put it on the guitar in a small spot on the back and then sand and clear over it. If it works, great, sand it off and do it to the whole guitar. If not, sand it off and do something else.

[cx04332]

If you use Rustoleum, make sure that you use their primer. Prime and sand a couple times before you put on the final color.

[Belva]

 

If you use Rustoleum, make sure that you use their primer. Prime and sand a couple times before you put on the final color.

 

As a general rule, use the same brand from start to finish. Chances are good you will have success. Also keep in mind that B.I.N. shellac based primer will seal anything and allow you to paint anything over it. I don't like to use the rattle cans because it's way too thin. I use a paint gun and thin it 50/50 with denatured alcohol.

Shellac is the old standby wood sealer and has been since Jesus' father was painting his carpenter projects. Literally.