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Doe anyone here make nuts?


freedlebeatle

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I need an 8-string bass (octave) nut made for a warmoth 8 string bass neck i have. I contacted warmoth, offerred to take mesurements or even as far as to mail the neck to them so they could make a nut for it and put it on and they wanted nothing to do with it. I could make my own just fine, but if anyone else here makes them, they know the correct tools are $200+. If I make a good product I could then make and sell odd nuts which is a perk, but I'd really like to avoid buyig the set of tools and trial and eror-ing my way through it. if anyone has or can make an 8 string nut for me thre is cash involved!:thu:

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$200? Nut files are about $50 which is all you need.

They will be wider ones used for bass, but you can buy two doubble edged files that will each handle a string gauge.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Nuts_and_saddles/Double-edge_Nut_Files.html

 

Or you could spend the same and take it to a luthire and have him make it for you.

Its nearly impossible to make one and just have it drop in.

The slot depths have to be custom cut to the gret height instrument so the nut is cut while the nut is already installed.

You can use needle files or torch tip cleaners though the cutting takes allot more time and care. You'd probibly have

to buy a couple of blamks in case your screw up but nut material is only a few bucks.

If you live in Houston I'd do it for you but You're best off finding someone local. Have you tried your

local music store? If thay havent got a good tech, then they usually have a bulletin board you can post on.

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Making a nut isn't that hard. It does take the right tools to do it correctly. warmoth has about the best price I've seen. you can also make nut saws out of automotive feeler gages and they work OK. But they leave a flat bottom. That's where torch tip cleaners come in. Use those to get the last little bit. I did it that way for a while. But I did a friends nut and he referred me to others who referred, well, you get the idea. So I invested in the proper files. I've been doing everybody's nuts (DON'T GO THERE!!!).

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And when customtele and WRGKMC agree, it
has
to be right!

 

 

We give each other enough space to express our own opinions, but in this case, we have to agree. Its a DIY site after all.

 

By the way I finally broke down and bought some real Fret files at Stu Mac this weekend.

I had been using "Other" file types for as long as I can remember and I figured I deserve not getting

blisters any more. I only bought a .010, .013 and .016 so far at $12+ apiece. I'll get a .026, .036, and .046 next payday for a whole set.

I been bad this week spending money on "Stuff". But if I can get good Stuff to replace the Crap Stuff, it only makes sence because it

saves time and improves quality of the work. Besides I'm not really happy with the way I cut my last too nuts (ouch) and I want to redo them.

 

Thick strings need a little more space between them than the thinner strings to feel right. You actuall need to measure in the width of the strings for spacing.

bass strings are even more critical there. You cant just scribe 4 lines on a blank nut and cut them to width. The thicker stringe will be too close together.

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The Stew Mac string spacing rule is actually worth having, and it does take into account a proportional spacing. Easy to use, and works great.

 

 

Yea its one of those things I plan on getting some day. I've gotten so used to doing them by eye, but there is more chance of a flub that way. I align the strings over the blank nut, space them, then use a magic marker over the strings so it leaves the uncolored gaps. Either that or the old nuts for spacing. The problem is if tiy dint get that initial cut dead on centered, its pretty much impossible moving it as the cut gets deeper. I work with brass on most of my own instruments because I like their tone.

 

Its tough stuff without good files and the bottom roundness and angle of the cuts are is the most important part. If it isnt just right, tuning and tone will suffer.

If you angle the cut too high in comparison to the headstock angle, most of the string pressure will be towards the tuners instead of towards the edge of the frets and you can get string buzz. Cut too much angle towards the headstock and all the pressure will be on the edge near the fret. This can cause string binding and excelerated nut and string wear.

Feners are pretty easy because the cuts are fairly level, On other headstocks like gibsons that tilt back you want that gradual tapering away from the nut. With a good stiff file thats rounded, its a simple to use feeler guages in front of the nut so you dont cut too deep, and focus 100% on the angle.

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IME buying a cut nut is the best ~$50 you will ever spend unless you like pain, as cutting nuts accurately is a royal PITA (some use welding tip cleaners available at Harbor Freight to cut slots; they work!)

 

I've yet to see a pre cut nut that's a drop in. You end up having to massage your nuts to get them right. With the proper tools, I actually enjoy doing my own nuts. I also like getting paid 50 bucks to do other people's nuts. Proper tools means I'm making about 35 bucks an hour at that rate.

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I prefer to have somebody else massage my nuts.

Like I said, I charge 50 bucks to do someone else's. And that's each. You want two nuts done, that's a hunnert bucks. BTW I recently raised my price because the girls downtown did.:lol:

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We give each other enough space to express our own opinions, but in this case, we have to agree. Its a DIY site after all.


By the way I finally broke down and bought some real Fret files at Stu Mac this weekend.

I had been using "Other" file types for as long as I can remember and I figured I deserve not getting

blisters any more. I only bought a .010, .013 and .016 so far at $12+ apiece. I'll get a .026, .036, and .046 next payday for a whole set.

I been bad this week spending money on "Stuff". But if I can get good Stuff to replace the Crap Stuff, it only makes sence because it

saves time and improves quality of the work. Besides I'm not really happy with the way I cut my last too nuts (ouch) and I want to redo them.


Thick strings need a little more space between them than the thinner strings to feel right. You actuall need to measure in the width of the strings for spacing.

bass strings are even more critical there. You cant just scribe 4 lines on a blank nut and cut them to width. The thicker stringe will be too close together.

 

 

 

 

How are you liking the stewmac one? I could use a few different sizes (in addition to what i already have) and they have the sizes I'm after.

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How are you liking the stewmac one? I could use a few different sizes (in addition to what i already have) and they have the sizes I'm after.

 

They are in transit as we speak. I expect them in a few days so I'll let you know.

Stu Mac Usually has the best quality tools so i expect they'll be fine.

Their two sided files werent close enough neither were the Warmoth so I went with the singles instead.

 

The only ones they dont have which I really wanted was .009 and .026. I have to go with a .010 and a .028.

Thats close enough for government work. You have to route exact sizes slightly larger where deeper slots are needed

so the strings dont bind so having them slightly larger is no big deal. If the bottom of the slot needs to be a little tighter I can use

a smaller size.

 

You want to keep in mind that nut files are also used on bridge saddles.

I have some TOM type bridge saddles that need some additional shaping too.

Strings will bind at that end as the nut so a smooth saddle with the right slot size does wonders for tuning.

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I got a set of six of these:

fretfilesth.jpg

in the sizes of:

.120, .105, .090, .075, .060, .050, .042, .036, .032, .026, .016, .012

 

I think the cost was $65 several years ago. They fit my needs as I have found that cutting a slot for a .009 string with a .009 file is too tight and creates tuning issues.

Follow this thread from TDPRI and you will be able to see why you will have a tuning issue with most slot files - even wobbling the file, which can make the problem worse:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technical/210187-cheap-er-nut-files.html

 

Funny thing in that thread, it was the Norman files that did the best job.

 

Stew mac

nfSM1.jpg

 

Grobet file

nfSM2.jpg

 

Norman

nfFG1.jpgnfFG1.jpg

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I got a set of six of these:

I have found that cutting a slot for a .009 string with a .009 file is too tight and creates tuning issues.

This times a bazillion. If it doesn't cause tuning issues it can cause muted strings. I always do them so the owner can run .12-.60's if they want. I always tell them that's what I'm gonna do and I've only had one customer say to cut them to proper size. Then I cut them a bit big, IIRC the #1 was .010.

3 per side Gibbys and Epiphones as well as acoustics can be a bit of a challenge. I've taken to opening the tuner side of the slot bigger so the string has no bind going to the tuner. I almost make a triangle looking slot.

And by all means, if a customer wants a graphite nut and plays with his whammy a bunch, leave the slots plenty high from the fretboard so they have some room to wear.

No I don't wanna watch when a customer plays with his whammy.:freak:

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I've taken to opening the tuner side of the slot bigger so the string has no bind going to the tuner. I almost make a triangle looking slot.

 

 

I do this a little differently; I split the difference between the angle of the nut and the tuning post for the downward angle, and for the angle to the tuning post I cut to the outside edge of the top of the tuning post sorta like "/" or "".

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For me it depends on the instrument. If the tuning pegs are in a straight line with the nut and have enough downward pressure, you dont need any angle nor do you have to go very deep.

having more than 50% of the string buried in a groove does nothing for tone and since its the bottom 50% that contacts the groove theres no need to bury a string 100%. The onlt thing that does is get the nut in the way of a players fingers.

 

Other guitars where the headstock angle lacks downward pressure on the nut or the tuners are wider than the nut, then you're going to have outward pull and even have strings jump out of their slots. You often have to have deeper slots so the strings dont pull out of the slots bending notes. My Plexiglass Flying V has some major issues with than and I actually cracked a bone nut shourtly after I got it bending notes.

 

The slots had to be cut straight for two reasons, If I angled the slots to the tuners, all the pressure of the strings would be on the edge facing the frets. This would

cause excessive wear there or the strings would jump the grooves. I bend a note and let go in the root position and the strings would snap right out of the slots.

 

With straight cut slots, the strings have two breakaway angles, one at the fret side and one at the tuner side.

These two breakaway angles help to hold the string in place and absorb more vibration over a larger area for better tone.

(The sum of pressure of the two break away angles are then same as one breakaway.

String tension and downward pressure dont change.

The pressure on either of two breakaways would be less having all that pressure on one pressure point.

so the friction issue would actually be less than having all the pressure on a single point.

 

Whats is a big deal is the material of the nut vs the string and the smoothness of the route.

Softer materials just grip the string more than harder materials and smooth surfaces have less friction than rough ones.

 

The other item is the flexibility of the strings. If the string cannot fully equalize after bending its not going to return to pitch.

A long slot has more chance of catching the string in comparison to a shorter slot so angleing the unneeded material away from

the string on an and of fretboard nut is usually going to have less surface area to hold the strings.

 

That was actually my biggest problem using the Ervana nuts. Having like 5mm of surface sucked for getting strings back to pitch with light stringe.

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I do this a little differently; I split the difference between the angle of the nut and the tuning post for the downward angle, and for the angle to the tuning post I cut to the outside edge of the top of the tuning post sorta like "/" or "".

 

They're like that on my Washburn acoustic. That's where I got the idea. That one is now 32 years old and it still doesn't need a nut. Mostly I've been replacing the plastic ones. I've also found Corian to be a good material. Plus I get the 2" sample pieces free from Lowe's for nothing. One gets me about 4 nuts, more without breakage, but it's a bit on the brittle side.

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For me it depends on the instrument. If the tuning pegs are in a straight line with the nut and have enough downward pressure, you don't need any angle nor do you have to go very deep. Having more than 50% of the string buried in a groove does nothing for tone and since its the bottom 50% that contacts the groove there's no need to bury a string 100%. The only thing that does is get the nut in the way of a players fingers.

 

 

I agree on the string depth in the nut. I may do things a little differently here though. After preparing the shelf and rough shaping the nut, I set the nut on the shelf and string the box. I then measure both 'e's' and calculate distance between the strings. I then rough slot with a file or saw (whatever is closest at the time). Then I tune to pitch and remove each string from the slot with a dental hook while filing the slot itself. I move back and forth - say low e/high e, b/a, g/b. I use feeler gauges to set the initial height. After this, I remove the nut and file/sand the nut so that each string is only half exposed. In the case of a lead player that bends allot I will leave 3/4 to 1 string height of the 'e, b, and g' string so that the string will be more resistant to jumping. I then check shaping and slot length. I try for no more than 3/16 slot length without regard to how wide the nut actually is at the base.

 

After gluing the nut, I go back and recheck the depths and perform final adjustments by feel if needed. My nuts always look funny because they are not only shaped to the fretboard, but are shaped to the differing heights of the strings from the fretboard. i.e e - E: .009, .010. .011, .013, .014, .015. .016 (varies with instrument tolerance, measurement from bottom of sting to top of first fret). This results in a nut that is more shallow at the e than it is at the E. If someone wants a nut cut so that there is an even height across the top of the nut while the slot depth varies (some purists rather than players), I will advise against it, but do it.

 

Each of us have our different ways, usually several different ways. Each situation is different.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I generally tend to polish both the nut and the slot, after cutting and final slotting, with micro mesh paper.

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