let's talk about preamps

[mistersully]

do you have a favourite? what are you currently using? do you have a go-to, or use different ones for different tasks?

 

how much importance do you place on a good preamp?

[1001gear]

Oh wait, you mean mic pres...

 

[AJ6stringsting]

I use the older Digitech multi-effects / preamps : The RP-12 ( handles the Distortion, very light delays,reverbs), the RP-1 ( for the effects loop and handles all the modulations, delays, reverbs) and the 2112 SGS to do the amp simulations.

I had the newer Line 6's, Boss, Vox and others, but the tone they gave, were so lacking to my taste .... not enough dynamics.

[mistersully]

i recently bought a BAE 1073 DMP as i wanted a neve 1073 style pre that was a step up for the golden age pre73 i have... couldn't be happier with it... for me. it's a HUGE improvement, and an added bonus is it has the best DI for bass i've ever heard... it has what they call a bootsy mod, which is a jensen transformer on the DI

other than that i use a UA solo 610, a sebatron axis vu (stereo), and an fmr rnp... all of which get used for different things

i can also use the pres on my midas venice f mixer if i need to

 

i know some think it's a waste of money, but i personally think investing in a top shelf preamp is money well spent

[mistersully]

Oh wait, you mean mic pres...

 

 

yep

[Phil O'Keefe]

I think good mic preamps, like good sound sources and good microphones, are very important.

 

As with microphones, I do tend to like to pick different preamps for different things.

 

I recently reviewed the Black Lion Audio B12A Mk II and was really impressed. You should check it out if you have the opportunity - it's a nice alternative to a Neve-flavored preamp, and a nice compliment to what you already have.

 

Likewise, I was very impressed with the mic preamps and preamp modeling in the Universal Audio Apollo Twin Duo that I reviewed a while back.

 

 

[sdelsolray]

do you have a favourite? what are you currently using? do you have a go-to, or use different ones for different tasks?

 

how much importance do you place on a good preamp?

 

I only record solo fingerstyle acoustic and classical guitar, so my choices of preamps have limited use to others who, for example, want to record vocals, or a drum kit, etc.

 

Nevertheless, I've used, borrowed, owned and tried many dozens of preamps for my uses. Many of them over the years were great - just different flavors of nice. Some were good, some were so-so and some sucked.

 

Currently I own/use four different preamps: (i) Pendulum Audio MDP-1a, (ii) dbx 786, (iii) pair Speck 5.0 MicPre and (iv) Pendulum Audio SPS-1 (which I use for gigging mostly). These, more or less, are the keepers after years of trial, error and occasional success.

 

I'm a firm believer that, when speaking about the front end, the entire signal chain is what counts and every component of that signal chain matters, some more than others. Yes, preamps are important, but leaving aside the musician and the instrument, the room (including room treatment), the microphones (I always record in stereo) and mic placement are more important than the preamp. That said, I believe a high quality preamp is simply required for a stellar signal chain. Converters too.

 

Although I may be fooling myself (as what I'm about to say is difficult to test empirically), I also believe that there are mic/preamp combinations that just work better than other combinations. For example, the mics I currently own/use (again, likely for the indefinite future) are pairs of (i) Microtech Gefell M295, (ii) Schoeps CMC64, (iii) Telefunken (USA) M260 (with three sets of capsules) and (iv) Microtech Gefell M300. The M295s just seem to work best with the dbx 786 and the Schoeps work best with the Pendulum MDP-1a, or the Specks. Switch that around, and, yes, the results are nice, but just not as nice as the original combinations mentioned.

 

For my application, which only requires two channels, I haven't jumped on the exotic converter wagon, although I tried for a time. With ABX testing, I can't tell a difference between decent converters or the exotic ones. If I recorded and need to mix, say, 30 tracks, that might be different. So I sold the Lavrys, never bought the Burls, and am completely happy with a Lucid 88192 for conversion duties. Built like a tank.

 

Monitors are another matter. I can and appreciate the different sonics and behaviors of monitors, even for my limited situation. I've used Quested monitors for many years and see no reason to change.

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

I think one of the big reasons for mic / preamp pairings that work well / don't work as well is impedance loading. If you want to have fun with that, try using a Cloudlifter CL-Z. It's a relatively inexpensive way to get a lot more out of the mics and preamps you already own.

[WRGKMC]

A really good preamp has been on my shopping list for a long time now. I just cant bring myself to spending what it costs to buy something superior. I been an electronic tech all my life and know the profit markup on certain pieces of gear is absolutely insane. I can deal with 100%200% markup but when you'd talking 1000% or 2000% markup on what the individual parts cost to build the thing you'd think the darn thing was made of gold instead of being just a couple of amplification stages.

 

I can say I do value quality gear and what it can do, I just don't think my vocals would benefit much at this late date in my life. I've mostly used mixers of various types when I was doing analog recordings. I still have some decent preamps around I've scavenged over time. One I like using is an old TEAC Tape recorder preamp. My old Multivox Space echo has Preamps built into it which I've used before including a recent recording I did with a band. I used the echoes preamp for one mic and newer SS preamp on another and wound up liking the Echoes much older transistor tone over the newer op amp tone.

 

I have a bunch of budget preamps for general purpose stuff. One I use allot is that Behringer MIC800 modeling preamp. Its just a budget unit with tube emulation and bass roll off knobs, but its got another knob that dials up subtle tonal and limiter variations I find useful. I'm able to use it to match different mic types and get a fairly flat sound quality going in just about any situation.

 

I do have a Presonus dual channel job I been using for drum overheads mostly. Its got dual tubes but they are the starved voltage circuits so other then some warmth added, its essentially a SS preamp, and nothing like an actual high voltage bias circuit. You can always tell by the power supply requirements. You can't run real tube preamps with a wall wart. I have another Nady 8 channel rack preamp for drums I picked up for chump change.

 

I'd really like to get something like a Universal Audio or a Great River but I'd really have to justify a need for it. Maybe in another 7 years when I retire from the day job or something. I'll likely sell off allot of my live gear and reinvest in just studio stuff at that point.

[mistersully]

 

I only record solo fingerstyle acoustic and classical guitar, so my choices of preamps have limited use to others who, for example, want to record vocals, or a drum kit, etc.

 

Nevertheless, I've used, borrowed, owned and tried many dozens of preamps for my uses. Many of them over the years were great - just different flavors of nice. Some were good, some were so-so and some sucked.

 

Currently I own/use four different preamps: (i) Pendulum Audio MDP-1a, (ii) dbx 786, (iii) pair Speck 5.0 MicPre and (iv) Pendulum Audio SPS-1 (which I use for gigging mostly). These, more or less, are the keepers after years of trial, error and occasional success.

 

I'm a firm believer that, when speaking about the front end, the entire signal chain is what counts and every component of that signal chain matters, some more than others. Yes, preamps are important, but leaving aside the musician and the instrument, the room (including room treatment), the microphones (I always record in stereo) and mic placement are more important than the preamp. That said, I believe a high quality preamp is simply required for a stellar signal chain. Converters too.

 

Although I may be fooling myself (as what I'm about to say is difficult to test empirically), I also believe that there are mic/preamp combinations that just work better than other combinations. For example, the mics I currently own/use (again, likely for the indefinite future) are pairs of (i) Microtech Gefell M295, (ii) Schoeps CMC64, (iii) Telefunken (USA) M260 (with three sets of capsules) and (iv) Microtech Gefell M300. The M295s just seem to work best with the dbx 786 and the Schoeps work best with the Pendulum MDP-1a, or the Specks. Switch that around, and, yes, the results are nice, but just not as nice as the original combinations mentioned.

 

For my application, which only requires two channels, I haven't jumped on the exotic converter wagon, although I tried for a time. With ABX testing, I can't tell a difference between decent converters or the exotic ones. If I recorded and need to mix, say, 30 tracks, that might be different. So I sold the Lavrys, never bought the Burls, and am completely happy with a Lucid 88192 for conversion duties. Built like a tank.

 

Monitors are another matter. I can and appreciate the different sonics and behaviors of monitors, even for my limited situation. I've used Quested monitors for many years and see no reason to change.

 

 

quite a list of gear you have there... i've read nothing but good things about the Pendulum MDP-1a

 

i absolutely agree that some mic/pre combinations work better that others

[AJ6stringsting]

Seems like the older Neve pre amps, recording councils are making a comeback. I watched in horror, back in the late 80's/ early 90's, studios scraping and or getting rid of these fine machines.

[mistersully]

did a session yesterday and ran all vocals through the BAE preamp... just fantastic results... tracked using a modded peluso 2247LE and an LA2A reissue compressor... vocals need very little done in the mix... a touch of reverb and good to go pretty much...vocalist was very happy

[Phil O'Keefe]

That sounds like a nice signal chain mistersully - pretty classic; 47 type mic, N-type pre, LA2A leveler... that's been used successfully on countless recordings.

[mistersully]

indeed Phil

 

and having such a good chain certainly saves time later by making mixing a lot easier

 

i know some people will think i'm mad, but i think this new preamp has made a significant difference... money well spent as far as i'm concerned. (i'm also happy/relieved that the small vocal room i built is proving to be good for tracking)