Recording vox in the environment i have

[badgererer]

Hi new forum, hi Phil.

 

I know there are many posts about how to record vox and such, but I was looking for personal - tailored if you will - advice.

 

I've attached a coupla pics of the room I'm recording in. I have two shure sm57s at my disposal with a sock/coat hanger pop filter, running into a Behringer Eurorack MX2642a mixer going into my comp through an Audiophile 2496 soundcard, into Ntrack 3.19. I'm being specific here because I'm not totally happy with the quality of my vocal recordings.

 

So what would you suggest as the first thing to improve my recordings? If you want an idea of what my vox sound like download any song from http://www.nowhereradio.com/tomewer/singles - the love that i can give is the newest, and a feeling is the oldest.

 

So any immediate tips? One thing - I do have a smaller room at my disposal - another bedroom, but probably about 9ft x 9ft with a window on one wall. If that would give better results.

 

Cheers

 

P.S. Whenever I get more than about 8 tracks on ntrack, it starts getting choppy and slow. I cant afford a new computer, so what do i need to add? More RAM?

[badgererer]

...

[Phil O'Keefe]

Hi badgererer!

 

Let's start with your DAW setup first. Can you tell us a bit more about the computer you're running ntracks on? CPU type / speed, current amount of RAM, audio interface, etc. Also, it would help to know if you are using multiple hard disk drives. Usually it's best if you use two seperate drives in your system - one as the system ("C") drive, and a seperate, dedicated drive to record your audio files to. If you're not running like that already, that might be a good place to start. Also, I tend to consider a DAW software developer's "minimum system requirements" as the BARE minimum... if they suggest a 1 GHz machine as the "minimum", you can probably run the program with a 1 GHz machine, but you're probably not going to be able to get much out of it.

 

As far as your room and your current setup, can you tell us a bit more about how you normally track things and what specifically you don't like about the results you're currently getting? Where do you usually set up in the room? Mic distance? Are you using EQ on the board when you track? That's a subjective thing, but for me, I usually tend to avoid EQ when tracking - especially on vocals - and save that for the mixdown.

 

Also, if you're considering some gear upgrades, please give us a ballpark idea of what sort of budget you have to work with so that we can make "price appropriate" suggestions.

[badgererer]

Not entirely sure what a DAW setup is, but I think I know what you mean. My computer is 4 years old - 1ghz celeron with 128mb RAM. I've got some nice tannoy active moniters. One hard drive - 20gb. Yeah I know what you're thinking, rubbish! But it's what I've got.

 

Ok, I set the mic up around where the first picture is taken, one shure sm57, and sing a few inches away from the pop filter - varying if I'm belting out high notes or singing low notes relatively softly. No EQ at all in the tracking - I agree with you entirely. No effects on the tracking at all, so any reverb/compression/limiting etc etc is all digital.

 

I think my vocals sound too distant, which i would think is quite possibly due to the size of the room. Its possibly quite echoey as well I think, with the solid walls. I cannot seem to find a decent amount of reverb that I am happy with - some modern pop seems to be awash in it, and i'm not sure I want that, but then again not really sure how much reverb is suitable to allow the vocals to sit well in a mix.

 

I'd say my budget is around

[Phil O'Keefe]

Well, a 1 GHz machine (especially a Celeron) is pretty slow by today's standards, and a single drive isn't exactly ideal... although you CAN record to the system © drive if it's fast enough (a fast5,400 RPM, or better yet, a 7,200 RPM drive) and you're not trying to stream a ton of tracks at once. But that 128 MB of RAM is a BIG issue. It's just not enough. Bumping that up to 512 MB would be a great place to start. And then getting a second drive would be a good move.

 

But ideally, I'd recommend looking for a faster machine all around - even if you have to go with a used machine. By the time you track down new RAM and a new HDD, you're putting a lot of money into a old machine that really doesn't warrant it IMO. Here in the USA, you can order parts from places like http://www.newegg.com and assemble your own DAW computer for pretty cheap... I'm sure there are similar places in your country. As long as you don't go with the "latest and greatest", and if you're willing to recycle / reuse whatever you can from your old system (floppy drive, case, power supply, CD / DVD drives or whatever) you should be able to take that $350 and build yourself a decent system. I'd recommend checking into an Athlon XP based system. I recently built a Athlon XP 2600 based system for my wife to have as an Internet machine, and it cost me about $350 total for everything.

 

For your recording setup, I'd probably close those drapes and get a bit more absorption happening. The middle of the room might not be the best possible place. Have you tried setting up in different spots in the room?

[Phil O'Keefe]

As far as recording in a small / less than acoustically ideal room, I would suggest you do as much "close mic'ing" as possible and use outboard reverb or plug in reverb units for adding effects at mixdown. Of course, on a 1 GHz Celeron, you're not going to have a ton of CPU power available for plug ins, but you should be able to run a few if they're fairly CPU efficient.

[badgererer]

 

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe As far as recording in a small / less than acoustically ideal room, I would suggest you do as much "close mic'ing" as possible and use outboard reverb or plug in reverb units for adding effects at mixdown. Of course, on a 1 GHz Celeron, you're not going to have a ton of CPU power available for plug ins, but you should be able to run a few if they're fairly CPU efficient.

 

 

I'll look into a new computer...I suppose I do have a pretty good setup aside from the computer itself...

 

Forgive me for being ignorant, but what is close mic'ing? Would recording in a smaller room be beneficial? Because as you can see from the pics the room is pretty big, with a very tall ceiling.

 

I've tried placing the mic in a few different spots but I'm not good at that kind of trial and error thing - what position might you recommend? I have very little knowledge of how a room's acoustics affects the sound.

 

We have http://www.dell.com/ in England where you can build your own system to a relative extent. Would be the kind of thing I'm looking for? What kind of system would you recommend?

 

Thanks for all your help

[Kiwiburger]

Close mic'ing means close mic'ing. Real close - like stage performers. Stage mic's like the SM57, SM58 are designed to be used like this, and they reject unwanted noise best like this. Consider a hand held mic if it makes you perform better.

 

If you have bad acoustics, like small, square rooms, you are best to reject as much of the room sound as possible. Put up absorbant material according to your budget. Cheap foam mattresses are as good as anything - the thicker the better. If your room sucks, you don't really want to record any of it.

 

Apply digital reverb and/or delay in the mix, unless you prefer the really dry sound.

 

Just watch for 'plosives - learn to turn your head for P's and breathing. If the proximity bass-boost is too much, low cut. Or you might like it anyway.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Good response Kiwi... thanks for saving me some typing.

[Phil O'Keefe]

The Dell Dimension 2400 is within your budget, and would be leaps and bounds better than what you're currently using. I prefer Pentium 4 (or even better yet, AMD Athlon) based systems, but at this point, any new computer is going to be a big step up from what you're currently using.

[HulkBlood01]

just wanted to throw this in for the poster....

 

 

Do some digging on the dell site. You can get refurbished computers for WAY CHEAPER. Don't let the word scare you, its orders that were cancelled, or PCs that were returned.....all brand new.

 

You can even search for the processor speeds/memory/hard drive you want. Very sweet deal.

[rog951]

Also, when dealing with Dell, realize that coupons are your friend! You can get some ridiculous deals if you do your homework. Sign up for Dell's email newsletter. They will periodically send you coupon codes for different things. Also, pay attention to the various "deal websites" for active coupons. Bensbargains.net and fatwallet.com are just two of many sites out there.

 

Woot.com also has a single daily item for sale and the price is almost always unbeatable. Some days they have computer systems for sale, other days they have other types of stuff. Usually consumer electronics and usually refurbished. I mention this specifically because they have a fairly powerful computer for sale today (7/26/05) for around $900. Sorry it's out of your budget range but I thought somebody else might be interested. If you check it every day, you'll eventually find a decent system in your price range.

 

Good luck!!!

[rog951]

Incidentally, a new computer will certainly help with a lot of things (like better software stability and the ability to record more tracks) but it won't really address the sound quality of your recordings. While there's absolutely nothing wrong with your SM57s, they're not necessarily the best vocal mics in the world. While passable for vocals, I'd think a large diaphragm condensor mic would give you a lot more presence and clarity. Since your budget is limited, I'd recommend trying something like a Studio Projects B1. In the US, they can be picked up for around $75-$80 I think and I've heard some very nice things about them from people whos opinion I respect. Unfortunately, I've never heard one (I do have an SP C1 which I like a lot) so I can't really say 100%.

 

Also, I'd pick a corner of the room and hang several layers of blankets on the walls to help knock down the reflections. Then I'd place the mic such that you can sing directly toward the corner of the room. This way, you'll take most of the room out of the equation and you'll be able to hear more of a true representation of your audio chain. Then you'll be able to more easily make decisions about your equipment.

 

I'd stay outta that 9x9 room if I were you; especially if you've got 9' ceilings too. Acoustically, that'd be the worst-case scenario (all sides equal length).

[badgererer]

 

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe The Dell Dimension 2400 is within your budget, and would be leaps and bounds better than what you're currently using. I prefer Pentium 4 (or even better yet, AMD Athlon) based systems, but at this point, any new computer is going to be a big step up from what you're currently using.

 

 

I see...I always assumed that Pentiums were better then Athlons. I always knew that celerons were in fact rubbish, but I never knew Athlons were up there performance wise. I think I have found a site that seems pretty good and inexpensive, with none of the gubbins I dont need: http://www.nsysonline.co.uk/Shop/Builder_System_Details.asp?BS=523. Is this a good system? Its

[badgererer]

 

Originally posted by rog951 Also, I'd pick a corner of the room and hang several layers of blankets on the walls to help knock down the reflections. Then I'd place the mic such that you can sing directly toward the corner of the room. This way, you'll take most of the room out of the equation and you'll be able to hear more of a true representation of your audio chain. Then you'll be able to more easily make decisions about your equipment. I'd stay outta that 9x9 room if I were you; especially if you've got 9' ceilings too. Acoustically, that'd be the worst-case scenario (all sides equal length).

 

 

I had been considering buying a new mic for vocals...but i do believe that many people have got very passable sounds from sm57s, i hear a lot of good things about them. Very helpful info about singing into the corner, I will try that. Makes sense anyway!

 

So what would you consider an acoustically perfect room?

[Kiwiburger]

 

..not really sure how much reverb is suitable to allow the vocals to sit well in a mix ... So what would you consider an acoustically perfect room?

 

 

These two questions are sort of related. The short answer: there is no such thing as an acoustically perfect room. There are some very nice rooms that suit specific purposes. Abbey Road Studio 2 is rather nice ...

 

Being realistic, I think the best approach on a budget is - as already suggested - avoid all room sound, and apply artifical reverb.

 

Modern rap vocals are really dry - typically the room would be surrounded by absorbants foam to remove all reflections from the room.

 

There is a huge choice of delays and reverbs at all budget levels, hardware & software. Should be a lot easier to find something you like, rather than trying to design and build a room to sound good.