Members Strange Posted October 22, 2005 Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 I am renovating a room in my house right now and I have decided to make the closet in the room a guitar and vocal booth. Keep in mind I am a carpenter so the labour is not a factor in cost or time. Before I build it, I would like some advice from the forum... 1) Is it possible to make a booth that will be good for both guitar and vocals? 2) What dimensions should I build? I would like it big enough for 1/2 stacks with 100 & 50 W heads, and of course the vocalist. 3) I would like to insulate the walls to limit as much sound outside the closet as possible. Sould the walls be 2X4 or 2X6 studs? Wood or metal studs? Sould I use a double layer of 5/8 sheetrock inside and/or outside the closet? Is normal R20 or R15 insulation enough to sound proof? Should the walls be paralell or should angles be incorporated? What would you recomend? 4) Room treatment. Should the entire booth be treated with foam or the "checker" pattern? Ideas for the floor or ceiling? Currently, the floor is hardwood and the ceiling is sheetrock. 5) It would obviously be more convienient to have a power recepticle in the closet. Is there and reason not to put one in there? 6) What kind of door(s) should the closet / booth have? I'd prefer a solid core wood door if I can get away with it. 7) Am I missing anything? I seem to reacll hearing/reading about a company (Auralex perhaps?) that will help design rooms for potential customers...links anyone? Thanks for the help guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 22, 2005 Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 You can use staggered studs and SoundBoard, which will help. http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/faq10b.html http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/My_Music_Room.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 22, 2005 Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 I forgot to mention that you can attach the SoundBoard to the studs by mounting them to resilient channel strips, which further stop the vibrations from being channeled through the wall. The idea in all this is that you are trying to isolate the vocal/gtr booth from everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 My current design has the booth coming out of a corner of the room like so: / _/ The top two slashes being the existing walls/corner. It would basically be a 5 sided booth withou any parallel walls. Would this design also help to break up the acoustics of the room if I were to record a kit in it? After the acoustics and soundproofing questions, my main concern is the dimensions. I'd like to keep it as small as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 22, 2005 Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 A drum kit benefits from large spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 I understand that but I can only work with the room I have. What I am saying is that after I build the booth I can use the rest of the room for items such as a kit. I want to keep the booth as small as possible, while retaining a good area for acoustics for the amps and vocals, and thus leaving as much space as possible in the room for the drums. The shape of the booth I was refering to is also to help break up the room's parallel walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 22, 2005 Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 Gotcha. I misunderstood you before, thinking that you wanted the room with the drums to be as small as possible. Which really should made me read your other post more carefully since that makes little sense! Oh, well....sorry 'bout that! And as you suspect, the non-parallel walls should be quite beneficial. Lucky you. I can't do that with my room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2005 No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted October 23, 2005 Members Share Posted October 23, 2005 Strange,Remember, one of the corners of your room can be used-retro-fitted as half, or all of your booth. This takes up less space too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Any measurements on the room / closet in question? That might be helpful for us in helping you. As far as isolation, a few general suggestions: Mass is your friend. The heavier a partition, the more it will reduce sound passing through it - especially at lower frequencies. Dissimilar materials can be useful due to boundary layer effects (sound doesn't travel well between the boundary layers of two materials of dissimilar density). IOW, instead of two sheets of 5/8" sheetrock, I would suggest a layer of 1/2", followed by a layer of soundboard, followed by a layer of 5/8" sheetrock. All mounted on resilient channel, as Ken suggested. Cross layer the materials too... IOW, if your first layer of materials is mounted vertically, mount the second layer horizontally, and the final layer vertically again. Mud and tape each layer so that there are no cracks, and caulk around the perimeter, because... Air tight is also your friend. If air can pass through, so can sound. IOW, good gaskets and heavy doors are a must! Studs / framing? There's a couple of ways you can go... first of all, decoupling is a good idea... when two materials are mechanically coupled, sound / vibration will travel through one material and into the other far easier than if they are only connected via air, or if they are decoupled via neoprene or other resiliant materials. Instead of using a normal wall type construction (2X4 frame with wallboard on each side), you'd be better off using a "staggered stud" configuration (2X6 base, with 2X4's "staggered" so that the two seperate 'sides" of the new wall don't touch except at the 2X6 base and the cap up by the ceiling. Even better still is a pair of seperate waills, each made the standard way, but seperated by a couple of inches of airspace. No need to "skin" the interior of each, but filling the interior with fiberglass is good. As far as the sound INSIDE the new booth, the best material is semi-rigid compressed fiberglass or mineral wool (3 lbs / cu ft density or heavier - Owens Corning type 703 or equiv - check with insullation suppliers / contractors and A/C companies). It can be covered with a fabric such as colored burlap or Guilford of Maine fabrics. It's less expensive than acoustical foam, and absorbs better. While foam and fiberglass are normally best at absorbing mids and highs, when placed 2" out from the wall (2X2's will work), you get even better broadband absorption from it than if you just glue it directly to the surface of the wall. Generally, I think that the smaller the room is, the "deader" it should be, but don't overdo it though. Too much material will disproportionally absorb the mids and highs and you'll wind up with a bass heavy sounding space. Of course, in an iso booth, you don't have a lot of space for bass trapping, but you can use those wall / ceiling junctures for some... just angle some 2X4' sheets of that semi-rigid fiberglass diagonally (45 degree angles between the wall / ceiling, using the 2' width to bridge between the wall and the ceiling) across those wall / ceiling corners and that will definitely help. Please get us some dimensions on the room and we'll see if we can't get you some more specific suggestions. Oh, BTW, the Auralex site is at www.auralex.com - and they do sell neoprene isolators as well as mineral wool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2005 Beautifull. That is a huge start Phill and much appreciated. Excellent info on the materials and applications!! The room dimensions are 135" (11' 3") X 120" (10') with an 8' ceiling. The old closet is already demo'ed so those are my rough dimensions. My main area of concern now is the actual dimensions for the interior of the booth. The room isn't that large and I would like the booth to look as closet like as possible...ie not a huge space occupied. A few more questions... *Would I keep the hardwood floor in the booth or treat it as well? *Is my design for a 5 sided (ie roughly a triangle shape) booth wedged in a corner a sound plan or would a rectangle or square be better? *Is it a good/bad idea to have the electrical outlet in the closet. I would assume in the closet is a necessity. *I am familiar with Auralex products and their site. Are they the company that does the consultation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thelonius Posted October 23, 2005 Members Share Posted October 23, 2005 I'm sorry Phil.....are you suggesting that ripping off my hinged closet doors and draping Winnie the Pooh blankies over them isn't up to snuff? ok, it's a bit ghetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2005 Man. I've done that more times than I can remember...but my blanket of choice was STAR WARS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_tonto Posted October 23, 2005 Members Share Posted October 23, 2005 i had a he-man sleeping bag on the wall behind the drumkit at one point, does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2005 Originally posted by guitwizz Strange,Remember, one of the corners of your room can be used-retro-fitted as half, or all of your booth. This takes up less space too! Can you explain this further guitwizz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted October 23, 2005 Members Share Posted October 23, 2005 Originally posted by Strange Can you explain this further guitwizz? Well, you can use a corner of your room,(if possible) and have 2 panels of plywood, masonite, or even pegboard with foam on them, or another deadening material, put them against the wall on both sides, and sing/play into the corner. maybe 4x4 feet, each. Lift them off the floor 2 feet or so, they dont need to go to the floor. If neccesary, you could construct another one, to use as the back of the gobo somehow. There are alot of ways to go about room containment, so without actually "being" in your room, its hard to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Originally posted by Strange Beautifull. That is a huge start Phill and much appreciated. Excellent info on the materials and applications!! Glad to help. The room dimensions are 135" (11' 3") X 120" (10') with an 8' ceiling. The old closet is already demo'ed so those are my rough dimensions. My main area of concern now is the actual dimensions for the interior of the booth. The room isn't that large and I would like the booth to look as closet like as possible...ie not a huge space occupied. Got it - thanks for the dimensions. Now, are you going to use the room exclusively for tracking, or will it also house your recording equipment / DAW / mixing station? A few more questions... *Would I keep the hardwood floor in the booth or treat it as well? Hardwood floors? IMO, I'd keep the floor as is. Your only alternative is carpet, and I think you'll have plenty of mid / high absorption (which is all carpet will absorb - mostly highs) via the semi-rigid fiberglass *Is my design for a 5 sided (ie roughly a triangle shape) booth wedged in a corner a sound plan or would a rectangle or square be better? I don't know about the "5 sided" thing (I'd love to see a bit better diagram of what you have in mind), but avoiding parallel walls is a "good thing" if you can pull it off. Acoustically, the worst possible shape is a cube, and the second worst is a rectangle with two equal dimensions, or dimensions that are multiples of one of the other dimensions... IOW, an 8'X8'X16' room is nearly as bad as a 8X8X8 or 16X16X16 room. Non-parallel walls will help reduce some acoustical issues, such as "flutter echoes". *Is it a good/bad idea to have the electrical outlet in the closet. I would assume in the closet is a necessity. You can never have too many outlets. IMO, you should definitely have at least one in that closet / booth area. *I am familiar with Auralex products and their site. Are they the company that does the consultation? Yes, I believe they still do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Originally posted by Strange My current design has the booth coming out of a corner of the room like so: / _/ The top two slashes being the existing walls/corner.It would basically be a 5 sided booth withou any parallel walls. Would this design also help to break up the acoustics of the room if I were to record a kit in it? After the acoustics and soundproofing questions, my main concern is the dimensions. I'd like to keep it as small as possible... Are those two "top" slashes actually a normal 90 degree, right angle corner, or is the basic shape of the room something other than a rectangle? Actually at 11'3" X 10'0" room is nearly square... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 24, 2005 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Got it - thanks for the dimensions. Now, are you going to use the room exclusively for tracking, or will it also house your recording equipment / DAW / mixing station? The room will be used only for recording. My control is directly beside this room....Looking at this picture, it would be directly below the booth end. Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe I don't know about the "5 sided" thing (I'd love to see a bit better diagram of what you have in mind), but avoiding parallel walls is a "good thing" if you can pull it off. Acoustically, the worst possible shape is a cube, and the second worst is a rectangle with two equal dimensions, or dimensions that are multiples of one of the other dimensions... IOW, an 8'X8'X16' room is nearly as bad as a 8X8X8 or 16X16X16 room. Non-parallel walls will help reduce some acoustical issues, such as "flutter echoes"....Are those two "top" slashes actually a normal 90 degree, right angle corner, or is the basic shape of the room something other than a rectangle? Actually at 11'3" X 10'0" room is nearly square... Here is a diagram...sorry its not to scale and is quite basic but it will give you an idea of what I am thinking. I should have made the diagram from the start. The X at the top left is an old duct incased in plywood and sheetrock that is no longer in use. Entrance to this room is top right. Dimensions A & B are what I am after. A could very well equal B..I dunno. My main goal for the booth is solid acoustics utilizing minimal space. Thanks again for the help everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted October 25, 2005 Members Share Posted October 25, 2005 Something worth considering if you are going to build: if you play electric guitars or bass, consider building in a faraday cage. There is nothing more annoying that having unwanted RF or EMI getting into your pickups. Sometimes it's totally out of your control, and without the best shielding you just have to wait for it to stop. If it stops. I haven't done this myself, but I may have to. My vocal/guitar room is very quiet acoustically. I'm working on AC power issues right now - huge improvements already. But as soon as you solve one noise problem, it uncovers another. With hindsight, if I ever build again, these are some of the issues I would address properly right from the start: Ventilation - you don't want to breathe or fart in a sealed boxAC power quality - is your AC really a sine wave?Dedicated electrical ground spike - are your shields really zero volts?EMI/RFI shielding (Faraday cage) - can you use single coils, or cheap guitars? These issues tend to get forgotten when considering the important acoustic issues - but they will come back to bite you in the ass if you don't design for them. Ventilation is a big one. I would build a dedicated air con room (or rooms) next time. You have to breathe. But the smallest hole defeates your airtight room. You don't want to spend thousands acoustically isolating your rooms, and then ruin it by connecting them with a vent. You may as well not bother if you do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Strange, I'd probably opt for making the A dimensions as short as you can, and the B dismensions as long as you can - within reason of course. That will make the "door" area a bit longer, but that's a diagonal wall, so no worries there. My main concern would be balancing the space out... IOW, you don't have a lot of room in that room, and putting vocal booth in there is going to eat into the floorspace considerably... IMO, you should make that booth as small as practically possible. Maybe 3' on dimension A, 4 - 4.5' on dimension B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted October 25, 2005 Members Share Posted October 25, 2005 I dont mind farting, while in a sealed box.....Someone else would probably mind... I can see the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 25, 2005 Moderators Share Posted October 25, 2005 If you're going to actualy build it as a dedicated space, I highly recommend F. Alton Everest's How To Build a Budget Recording Studio. Dimensions are covered in detail and why. Treatment, ventilation, on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 F. Alton Everest's books are highly recommended by me. I have three or four of them, and they are an outstanding resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strange Posted October 28, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 Excellent. I purchased one two days ago. It should be here soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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