Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

So... what are you using for small diaphragm condensers?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse







X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    My (mis)understanding of the transient response of ribbon mics came from an interview I read with Bruce Swedien many years ago about recording percussion with Michael Jackson. In that interview, he said that he chose a ribbon for its softer transient response. I found the quote:

    "The heavy mass of the ribbon element, suspended in magnetic field of a ribbon mic, makes it impossible for a ribbon mic to trace the complete transient peak of a percussive sound such as a glass bottle."

    If I understand Phil's comments correctly, Swedien was wrong. The ribbon mic sounded softer because it lacked overshoot, not because it had a slower response.

    Comment


    • #32
      Aren't those super-inexpensive - like under $50 for a pair or something like that? I should probably get one or two pairs just to see what they sound like.



      It's been ages since I checked out their site, but IIRC, they were talking about doing a version with lower sensitivity so they could be used on high SPL sources without them overloading as readily - in fact, I believe that's why I put off getting a set - I was planning on waiting until the newer version was ready. Did they ever release those?


      They originally had matched sets and unmatched sets. Then they chenged them for a higher SPL and charged a whole lot more.
      They had a sale on the unmatched ones for $5 each so a grabbed up 8 of them.

      If you keep the mics at a farther distance they wont distort. I really cant tell any frequency differences between them on drums.
      The best use for them I found was recording harmonica. I was doing an old classic tune with the clean harmonica cowboy stuff
      and needed to catch the hand vibrado, I tried every mic in my studio including large diaphrams and dynamic mics of all types
      and they just didnt cut it. I finally used the small ones and kind of wedged it between my thumb and first finger and it nailed the clean tone
      perfectly.

      I think I used on on a sax too and it gave me a great clean sax sound. I made a clip out of one of those big black paper clips, velcro for padding,
      and a coat hanger, (typical stuff you'd do rigging something to work) i had the mic about 4" from the horn throught 45 degrees off axis and it worked like a champ.

      My original intention was to mount these little condences inside the toms and install XLR jacks. I kind of lost steam on the idea after testing, and since I aquired some
      decent tom mics, i havent revisited the idea.

      I'm surprised some manufacturer hasnt come up with some decent internal drum mics. Even if they arent stellar for tone because
      of the reflections inside it would sure make micing up live drums allot easire. Running some XCR cables to a snake is a whole lot easire
      then setting up stands and trying to fit them in around the drums. I used mics in the bottom of open toms for years and get some decent
      tones. The floor tom might have a bit of a basket ball sound but some head tweaking or even some felt inside the shell might fix that.

      Comment


      • #33
        My (mis)understanding of the transient response of ribbon mics came from an interview I read with Bruce Swedien many years ago about recording percussion with Michael Jackson. In that interview, he said that he chose a ribbon for its softer transient response. I found the quote:

        "The heavy mass of the ribbon element, suspended in magnetic field of a ribbon mic, makes it impossible for a ribbon mic to trace the complete transient peak of a percussive sound such as a glass bottle."

        If I understand Phil's comments correctly, Swedien was wrong. The ribbon mic sounded softer because it lacked overshoot, not because it had a slower response.


        My (mis)understanding of the transient response of ribbon mics comes from me not really knowing very much about ribbons.

        I figured since they didn't require a power source (such as phantom power or a power supply, for instance), they responded slower to transients than condensers.

        But I'm happy to learn more.
        Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

        Comment


        • #34
          I would be the last person to question Bruce in terms of his ear, his skills as an engineer and his love for music - his accomplishments speak for themselves, and I consider him a friend and mentor... but we apparently disagree on the reasons for why a ribbon sounds "softer" - but apparently not on the fact that they do. Personally I think that most ribbons are fairly light in mass, which helps with transient response. It's all about inertia. If something weighs a lot, it will take more energy to get it vibrating, which has a detrimental effect on the transient response. I also think that the softness of a ribbon is due to the rolled-off highs coupled with that fast transient response... you get the detail, but since the 10-20kHz region isn't as accentuated, it comes across as detailed, but less harsh than most condensers. That's all even before taking the issue of overshoot (and to a lesser extent, "ringing") into the equation.
          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

          Comment


          • #35
            Ringing. Is that referring to a sort of internal vibration (resonance) of the microphone body or something else?
            Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

            Comment


            • #36
              I like the Earthworks TC30K (omni) for its fast transient response, high max SPL, and flat frequency response when I am recording congas, claves, Cuban cajon and other Cuban percussion. Oktava MC012s with omni capsules are nice also, but I actually like the SM57 a little better for congas.

              Comment


              • #37
                I'm very interested in omini pattern mic's. Those Behringer Ecm things really don't suck. my hesitation is born of having small rooms, maybe the omini capsules on the Oktava's would be a way to test out a proper omni. I have a multipattern large diaphram Mic (Groove Tubes model 6tm) it's a fine sounding vocal mic in cardiod, but it can't seem to find a good use for it in omni. I have the Electrovoice dynamic omni and it is a cool sound for different things.
                <div class="signaturecontainer">Tim Mayock<br />
                <br />
                <a href="http://www.northfieldmusic.org" target="_blank">northfieldmusic.org</a><br />
                would have been a minister if it wasn't for all the religion, Would have been a police man if it wasn't for all those laws, now just a good samaritan when i can</div>

                Comment


                • #38
                  The only SDCs I have are the Carvins. They are OK. When normal people reach for an SDC, I tend to grab my AT4050s.


                  I have the Carvin SDC, the M90E. It's on the bright side and can be used via internal battery so if you're in a position where phantom power is not available it's still good to go. Choirs and OH are probably the best place for this mic.
                  I also have a pair of MXL1000 hand held ball style mics. They have the same capsule and electronics the MXL 603 does. These are very nice mics, designed for instrument recording but work very well for vocals. The 1000 seems to be a bit darker than the 603, probably due to the ball and housing differences and I would really consider both to be MDCs.
                  Then there's a Beyer Dynamics MCE81N, designed for vocals but also works very well for acoustic guitar. The mic I have has not shown itself to be quite as hot as some other SDCs and certainly those that I have.
                  <div class="signaturecontainer">Still Kickin' cancer's ass....<br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.bwsvw.org">Blue Water Sailors of the Vietnam War</a><br><br>HCGB Trooper #246<br><br>Psalm 19 Society<br><br><div class="bbcode_quote"><br><div class="quote_container"><br><div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div><br><br>I can't really imagine experiencing the desire for multiple women; one has proven to be taxing enough as it is.<br><br></div><br></div><br></div>Thanks Offy

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I would be the last person to question Bruce in terms of his ear, his skills as an engineer and his love for music - his accomplishments speak for themselves, and I consider him a friend and mentor... but we apparently disagree on the reasons for why a ribbon sounds "softer" - but apparently not on the fact that they do. Personally I think that most ribbons are fairly light in mass, which helps with transient response. It's all about inertia. If something weighs a lot, it will take more energy to get it vibrating, which has a detrimental effect on the transient response. I also think that the softness of a ribbon is due to the rolled-off highs coupled with that fast transient response... you get the detail, but since the 10-20kHz region isn't as accentuated, it comes across as detailed, but less harsh than most condensers. That's all even before taking the issue of overshoot (and to a lesser extent, "ringing") into the equation.


                    What is 'overshoot'?
                    flip the phase

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Surprised that no-one has mentioned the AKG c535eb. For SDC's I own one of those, and a pair of SE3's, and the 535 is a far superior mic. It's supposed to be a handheld live vocal mic, but it's the best thing I have for acoustic guitar - a really warm (yes I said it :facepalm and detailed sound with lovely soft highs.

                      I'm actually thinking of putting the SE3's up on the 'bay and buying another 535 as the SE3's hardly ever get used.

                      The 535 is a great mic tho - I found out recently that it's well loved by Irish trad players on pretty much everything.
                      flip the phase

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I used my Octava 012s in a ORTF, 12" off a Little Martin last week. Holy Smokes. I kept the ORTF in the strict config, then angled the mic bar to get one mic pointing at the bridge and one at the 12th fret. Nothing groundbreadking, just staying in a true ORTF. Into an API. That little cheapo Martin sounded very, very cool. Funky, yet hi-fi.
                        ___

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Surprised that no-one has mentioned the AKG c535eb. For SDC's I own one of those, and a pair of SE3's, and the 535 is a far superior mic. It's supposed to be a handheld live vocal mic, but it's the best thing I have for acoustic guitar - a really warm (yes I said it :facepalm and detailed sound with lovely soft highs.

                          I'm actually thinking of putting the SE3's up on the 'bay and buying another 535 as the SE3's hardly ever get used.

                          The 535 is a great mic tho - I found out recently that it's well loved by Irish trad players on pretty much everything.


                          I used to have a pair of C-535 EBs. I gave one away to a good friend. Not sure what the heck happened to the other one. It's got to be in with the rest of my mikes somewhere. I agree that while they're designed as a handheld vocal mic, they also work very well on instruments. In fact, it's WAAAAY better for that than the C-1000 IMO. Of course, it's also about $100 more expensive too...
                          **********

                          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                          - George Carlin

                          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            PS Speaking of Irish Trad players, I'd love to go to Ireland sometime and record some.
                            **********

                            "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                            - George Carlin

                            "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                            - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                            "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                            - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I used to use a pair of AT Pro-37's- I liked 'em, and if they had been mine, I'd still be using them. I once did an acoustic guitar overdub during a session at the Sound Kitchen in Nashville, and I figured they'd put a nice LDC mic up. Nope- they put an AT Pro-37 right at the 15th fret- and it sounded great.
                              <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;I'm a mur-diddly-urdler!&quot;<br />
                              <a href="http://www.tbushrecording.com" target="_blank">www.tbushrecording.com</a></div>

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I used to have a pair of C-535 EBs. I gave one away to a good friend. Not sure what the heck happened to the other one. It's got to be in with the rest of my mikes somewhere. I agree that while they're designed as a handheld vocal mic, they also work very well on instruments. In fact, it's WAAAAY better for that than the C-1000 IMO. Of course, it's also about $100 more expensive too...


                                I didn't realise the C1000's were that cheap.

                                But yes, the 535 is a very flattering mic on a range of sources. I like it on acoustic guitar because it sounds like a guitar on playback, and not a recording of a guitar, if you know what I mean!

                                Not the most 'modern' of sounds - it would hardly work on a glossy dance track for instance, but it has a lovely balance and usually needs very little eq.
                                flip the phase

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X