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  • #16
    A good laptop actually cannot produce ANY music - you need humans for that. A good laptop (plus a modicum of decent gear) can however allow people access to music-creating abilities hitherto available only to very few. This is a good thing.
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

    -- Vaclav Havel

    The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

    -- Carl Sagan


    Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

    -- Joseph Brodsky

    Comment


    • jorhay1
      jorhay1 commented
      Editing a comment

      Red Ant wrote:
      A good laptop actually cannot produce ANY music - you need humans for that. A good laptop (plus a modicum of decent gear) can however allow people access to music-creating abilities hitherto available only to very few. This is a good thing.

      Yeah.

      For us.

      ('Record Co./Studio' Mafia: RIP)


  • #17
    ^ sometimes that isn't an option, for reasons that have little to do with music
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

    -- Vaclav Havel

    The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

    -- Carl Sagan


    Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

    -- Joseph Brodsky

    Comment


    • Rekel
      Rekel commented
      Editing a comment

      Red Ant wrote:

      "^ sometimes that isn't an option, for reasons that have little to do with music".

      I'm hep, Anton. Been there, done that, T-shirt. Egos, politics, financial reasons, etc could have played a role there in that decision.

      Fortunately, I'm in a position to refuse to work that way for quite some time, though. I don't think one is doing someone who can't cut it in a professional environment a favor by artificially correcting their lack of talent. Just my opinion   


  • #18
    Well, it may not have done the drummer any favors, but the rest if the band were pretty ecstatic
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

    -- Vaclav Havel

    The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

    -- Carl Sagan


    Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

    -- Joseph Brodsky

    Comment


    • tock
      tock commented
      Editing a comment

      Red Ant wrote:
      Well, it may not have done the drummer any favors, but the rest if the band were pretty ecstatic

      I want to get the CLA Steven Slate drum samples but I have been waiting for the ilok madness to die down with the downtime issues. 


  • #19
    @Zig - tracking in the studio is the most natural thing to me, it's my comfort zone. I get a little nerves before a gig sometimes, but that only lasts till the opening note, then I'm in the zone again
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

    -- Vaclav Havel

    The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

    -- Carl Sagan


    Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

    -- Joseph Brodsky

    Comment


    • Zig al-din
      Zig al-din commented
      Editing a comment

      Red Ant wrote:
      @Zig - tracking in the studio is the most natural thing to me, it's my comfort zone. I get a little nerves before a gig sometimes, but that only lasts till the opening note, then I'm in the zone again

       

      Usually takes me a couple songs to settle into it but I'm a relative newbie at this still! Some people say if there's no nervousness, the show is flat,,,??


    • Rekel
      Rekel commented
      Editing a comment

      Red Ant wrote:

      "tracking in the studio is the most natural thing to me, it's my comfort zone. I get a little nerves before a gig sometimes, but that only lasts till the opening note, then I'm in the zone again :smileyhappy:.png" border="0" /> "

      Lol, Anton. Same here after all these years. There's nothing wrong with a minor screw up during a gig once in a while as long as you make up for it a few bars later, either musically or visually.


  • #20
    ^ not sure i agree. Certainly not for the music I tend to play - being nervous and jumpy isn't usually condusive to having a deep, relaxed pocket. Excitement - yes. nerves - not so much. I suppose if one was playing super aggressive punk or metal, it even ska, where it's ok to rush every beat
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

    -- Vaclav Havel

    The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

    -- Carl Sagan


    Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

    -- Joseph Brodsky

    Comment


    • #21
      I kind of knew you'd disagree, Anton

      And I do plenty of major saves before I'm ready to commit too. But I'd still call that the first mix, unless I'd started from scratch with a radically different approach to the track in the meantime.

      For me anyway, the reverbs that I select during the first hour, along with the ballpark EQs, and general feel and design of the mix, are always pretty much done. Once I start fiddling around making major changes, it's either a case of having to start from scratch (mix #2), or having to go back to the beginning of mix #1.

      Mix #3 is where I usually start to notice the law of diminishing returns coming into effect.



      flip the phase

      Comment


      • Red Ant
        Red Ant commented
        Editing a comment

        gubu wrote:
        I kind of knew you'd disagree, Anton

        And I do plenty of major saves before I'm ready to commit too. But I'd still call that the first mix, unless I'd started from scratch with a radically different approach to the track in the meantime.

        For me anyway, the reverbs that I select during the first hour, along with the ballpark EQs, and general feel and design of the mix, are always pretty much done. Once I start fiddling around making major changes, it's either a case of having to start from scratch (mix #2), or having to go back to the beginning of mix #1.

        Mix #3 is where I usually start to notice the law of diminishing returns coming into effect.




        No offense intended, but it sounds like simply a lack of experience issue. After a while, you kinda "know" where you went wrong and can go back and usually with relatively minor adjustments effect major improvements.


      • Phil O'Keefe
        Phil O'Keefe commented
        Editing a comment

        gubu wrote:
        I kind of knew you'd disagree, Anton

        And I do plenty of major saves before I'm ready to commit too. But I'd still call that the first mix, unless I'd started from scratch with a radically different approach to the track in the meantime.

        For me anyway, the reverbs that I select during the first hour, along with the ballpark EQs, and general feel and design of the mix, are always pretty much done. Once I start fiddling around making major changes, it's either a case of having to start from scratch (mix #2), or having to go back to the beginning of mix #1.

        Mix #3 is where I usually start to notice the law of diminishing returns coming into effect.





         


        Since we were talking about Bruce earlier, I'll use him as an example - I have some mixes he sent me that are in the 40s to 70s in terms of version numbers - IOW, he does a LOT of versions before he is satisfied. However, that can be taken to extremes too. He mixed Billie Jean over 90 times, and at Quincy's suggestion, they went back and re-listened to mix #2 - and it slayed everyone. That's the mix on the album.


        I'm constantly saving versions of things as I go along. I date and number everything as part of the file name so that I can go back to earlier versions if I want / need to.


    • #22
      ^ I would suggest more dynamics and more "scene changes". Perhaps a drum/bass/vocal breakdown in the last verse? Maybe a bridge/middle eight section?

      My rule of thumb for pop song construction is Lennon/McCartney. Works for just about any style - I'm really talking about song structure and "story arc". Think of it as a mini-movie - you want to tell a story, build and release tension, etc...

      I'm really not much of a songwriter, but you give me a song idea and I can arrange the hell out of it - just ask redEL34
      Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

      -- Vaclav Havel

      The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

      -- Carl Sagan


      Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

      -- Joseph Brodsky

      Comment


      • #23
        Inexperience is one of a multitude of reasons why I'm not a pro. You sure it's not my gear?!

        I still say that the first couple of sound design ideas are the keepers when mixing though, just like takes. Like you say, once you know where you went wrong, it usually only takes minor adjustments to make major improvements, and I'd call that a single mix/sound design.
        But yes, I'll hardly be competing with you guys for jobs any time soon!
        flip the phase

        Comment


        • #24
          What "jobs"?? :smileylol:
          Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

          -- Vaclav Havel

          The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

          -- Carl Sagan


          Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

          -- Joseph Brodsky

          Comment


          • #25
            Did I say 'jobs'? I meant to say 'business', cf the art of being busy, while getting paid!
            flip the phase

            Comment


            • Red Ant
              Red Ant commented
              Editing a comment

              gubu wrote:
              Did I say 'jobs'? I meant to say 'business', cf the art of being busy, while getting paid!

              Oh that! I vaguely remember that


          • #26
            ^ it's my pleasure, truly - music is my life, and so many people throughout my career have been so generous sharing their knowledge and experience - I feel that I can do no less!
            Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

            -- Vaclav Havel

            The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

            -- Carl Sagan


            Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

            -- Joseph Brodsky

            Comment


            • Phil O'Keefe
              Phil O'Keefe commented
              Editing a comment

              Red Ant wrote:
              ^ it's my pleasure, truly - music is my life, and so many people throughout my career have been so generous sharing their knowledge and experience - I feel that I can do no less!

               


              Good for you Anton. :smileythumbsupsmall:


              I've noticed that it's the more insecure (and often less competent) folks who tend to be more secretive, while the cats who really have nothing to prove tend to have that same "share the knowledge" attitude. Guys like Roger and Bruce and George Massenburg tend to be the ones who share very liberally, and they learned it from the guys before them like Bill Putnam who shared with them as they were getting started... I'm a big believer in the whole idea of paying it forward. I've been given tons of help and advice from people like them, so I feel I have a moral responsibility to share what I can with the next generation.


          • #27
            ^ Preach on, brother Phil!

            Yeah, the whole aecretive thing has always struck me as silly and insecure as well. I especially have always felt that part of my responsibility in a session was teaching the assistant/2d on the session. That's the way I was treated by most of the folks I assisted - Bob Clearmountain and all The Lord-Alge clan deserve particular mention. Paying it forward is the way to go
            Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

            -- Vaclav Havel

            The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

            -- Carl Sagan


            Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

            -- Joseph Brodsky

            Comment


            • bluzboy
              bluzboy commented
              Editing a comment

              Red Ant wrote:
              ^ Preach on, brother Phil!

              Yeah, the whole aecretive thing has always struck me as silly and insecure as well. I especially have always felt that part of my responsibility in a session was teaching the assistant/2d on the session. That's the way I was treated by most of the folks I assisted - Bob Clearmountain and all The Lord-Alge clan deserve particular mention. Paying it forward is the way to go

               

              Clearmountain is a prince, so is Bruce Swedien (never had any experience with Lord-Alge).

              I mean that in all sincerity.


          • #28
            In Clearmountain's case - and I say that with no disrespect to his considerable talents - I learned a lot of what I DIDN'T want to do. That super-crisp gated/compressed/processed Clearmountain sound just has never been my thing - but he OWNS that sound, and lots of people love it. I like a warmer, more intimate mix.
            Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

            -- Vaclav Havel

            The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

            -- Carl Sagan


            Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

            -- Joseph Brodsky

            Comment


          • #29
            ^ think Tears For Frars
            Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

            -- Vaclav Havel

            The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

            -- Carl Sagan


            Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

            -- Joseph Brodsky

            Comment


            • #30
              He also mixed Roxy Music's Avalon, and did a mindblowingly great job of it
              Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

              -- Vaclav Havel

              The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

              -- Carl Sagan


              Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

              -- Joseph Brodsky

              Comment



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