Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why Is The Electric Guitar Dying?

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Anderton View Post
    I don't think the primary purpose of making music is to create things other people want to hear.
    Does anyone knows what people want to hear? So true, Making music from the prospective of a listener is frightening because you have no say, it becomes a junk food drive through window process.
    If you stand for nothing your life becomes meaningless. The world and everything you have today exist because people before you stood up, worked hard and died to provide us all the opportunity. Get involved!

    Audio Icon

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by audioicon View Post

      You make very interesting and compelling points but your passion and apparent frustration is affecting the trajectory of your argument.

      I have to respectfully disagree, that people do not care, people do care and people who play instruments are very well regarded. Every time I tell someone that I am a musician, the first question is:

      "What instrument do you play?"

      They never ask me about software, most people, at least the once I talk to have never heard of Ableton live.
      Where I am, Los Angeles, it seemed that everyone was a 'musician', but lately the scene has shifted, live venues are moving to DJs, rock rooms are folding...it is a cycle we've seen before, but this time, the underlying reasons are more 'sinister'...the number of musicians here is the same, but the number of working musicians shrinks daily. This was the rock and roll center of the universe for decades, but not anymore. The competition here is absolutely crushing, so many amazingly gifted players here, and so many struggling to find decent paying gigs in an ever-shrinking pool.
      The gen-X-ers and millenials keep their ear buds in....and their wallets closed. The boomers are rapidly getting beyond going out more than once a month...the tide is turning. Kids want to hear what they want, and they can all be at the same table, each listening to something different on their iPhones...
      Last edited by daddymack; 07-08-2017, 11:33 AM.
      "We are currently experiencing some technical difficulties due to reality fluctuations. The elves are working tirelessly to patch the correct version of reality. Activities here have been temporarily disabled since the fundamentals of mathematics, physics and reason may be incomprehensible during this indeterminate period of instability. Normal service will be restored once we are certain as to what 'normal' is."

      Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally used up and worn out, shouting '...man, what a ride!'
      "The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively" ~Bob Marley

      Comment


      • #33
        I don't do gigs (too shy) but I find I'm using my guitars less and less in my recordings. The last few songs I've done have all been 'in-the-box', as it were. This PreSonus DAW I have is chock-full of sounds, and while it's been somewhat of a nightmare trying to navigate my way through it, I'm getting some half-decent results with the 'virtual' instruments that came bundled with it

        I still write songs on my acoustic guitar, though, so all is not lost
        smoke - new album
        the mirror - album
        storm - album
        the asylum - forum

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by daddymack View Post

          Where I am, Los Angeles, it seemed that everyone was a 'musician', but lately the scene has shifted, live venues are moving to DJs, rock rooms are folding...it is a cycle we've seen before, but this time, the underlying reasons are more 'sinister'...the number of musicians here is the same, but the number of working musicians shrinks daily. This was the rock and roll center of the universe for decades, but not anymore. The competition here is absolutely crushing, so many amazingly gifted players here, and so many struggling to find decent paying gigs in an ever-shrinking pool.
          The gen-X-ers and millenials keep their ear buds in....and their wallets closed. The boomers are rapidly getting beyond going out more than once a month...the tide is turning. Kids want to hear what they want, and they can all be at the same table, each listening to something different on their iPhones...

          I hear you loud and clear BUT! I have been spending lots of time on you lately. When I work, I have youtube in the background listening to music.
          I try to find indie music or artist that are not proliferated.

          And what I want to tell you is the the Gen X are interested, you just have to grab their attention. Case in point, I stumbled upon a band called The Knocks on you tube, they guys are freaking awesome and just look at the comments and whose posting.

          I agree there is extreme saturation but each person has a flavor, you just have to capture it.
          If you stand for nothing your life becomes meaningless. The world and everything you have today exist because people before you stood up, worked hard and died to provide us all the opportunity. Get involved!

          Audio Icon

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by audioicon View Post


            I hear you loud and clear BUT! I have been spending lots of time on you[tube, I think] lately. When I work, I have youtube in the background listening to music.
            I try to find indie music or artist that are not proliferated.

            And what I want to tell you is the the Gen X are interested, you just have to grab their attention. Case in point, I stumbled upon a band called The Knocks on you tube, they guys are freaking awesome and just look at the comments and whose posting.
            Comments don't pay for groceries or a mortgage. What daddymack was talking about was working musicians, not just talented musicians in a genre that appeals to some people. Back in the 70s and 80s, talented musicians (mostly those who played cover tunes) could have a pretty steady run of weekend bar gigs that would keep bring in $100-$150 a week, a nice supplement to an office job or maybe even pay the rent in a shared apartment. And it's still like that. You know what they say about "wage growth" - one of the biggest issues in our economy - there isn't any.

            Here In the DC area, we have about as many clubs as we ever did where moderate-to-big stars play, and admission is $30-$70. What there are fewer of is bars and restaurants where there's no admission, a beer doesn't cost $15, and the band is paid a couple of hundred bucks a night. But what we don't have are places where talent can develop and then move on to better paying gigs.

            Danny Gatton and Roy Buchannan played bars around here in the '60s and '70's. While they're two of the most revered guitarists among guitarists, they never got to be big stars, and never made the big bucks. I guess our claim to fame is Emmylou Harris, who used to play bars and folk clubs. That's one in, what, 40 years?

            Music has never been a very solid career, and all but a handful of those who have managed to make it a lifetime career do something else but play music. They might be doing other things that are music-related like producing, songwriting, maybe engineering.


            --
            "Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
            Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by MikeRivers View Post
              Comments don't pay for groceries or a mortgage.
              Mike, maybe I am missing something but one of the premise of DaddyMack's argument is that Gex-X do not care, they have short attention span.
              I mentioned comments as a way to say people are listening and are paying attention.

              I agree with you that it will not necessarily transfer into revenue. But you can argue that people are not paying attention but also ignore a song with X Million views made by some guy whipping a cowbell.

              I did not see the initial argument as, people not buying music but rather people not paying attention.

              Originally posted by MikeRivers View Post
              Danny Gatton and Roy Buchannan played bars around here in the '60s and '70's. While they're two of the most revered guitarists among guitarists, they never got to be big stars,
              To me music is binary and literal. You either make music because you love it and if you make a living fine, otherwise keep rocking.
              OR
              You make music because you want to make money. Like Lady Gaga wearing Raw Meat.

              It cannot be both.

              If you want to pay Mortgage or by Groceries making music, then you have to be radical, say anything and do anything but no one I have ever met who truly loves music will do that.
              Last edited by audioicon; 07-08-2017, 03:09 PM.
              If you stand for nothing your life becomes meaningless. The world and everything you have today exist because people before you stood up, worked hard and died to provide us all the opportunity. Get involved!

              Audio Icon

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by audioicon View Post


                I hear you loud and clear BUT! I have been spending lots of time on you lately. When I work, I have youtube in the background listening to music.
                I try to find indie music or artist that are not proliferated.

                And what I want to tell you is the the Gen X are interested, you just have to grab their attention. Case in point, I stumbled upon a band called The Knocks on you tube, they guys are freaking awesome and just look at the comments and whose posting.

                I agree there is extreme saturation but each person has a flavor, you just have to capture it.
                are these guys on a label? a major label? or are they playing 'house' shows trying to eke out enough money to stay afloat and keep their gear working? Comments on youtube are not downloads or sales.
                The best bands I've ever been in just lost our steady gig because we could not bring in enough 'drinkers'. In that band I have four 'in demand' session players, two semi-pro sidemen and a grammy winner. And that is the saddest truth of all. Even when I could fill the room, if they are drinking water, the house ain't making its nut...and I'm out of a gig. Live music, as a means of generating income, is dying for many of the same reasons guitars sales are softening...[DUI laws], lack of interest and too many other options.

                Will I stop playing? No. I am doing more ancillary things, equipment repair, studio wiring, teaching...but at the end of the day, the reason I got in to music was to perform...and it gets more challenging all the time, because I will not do it for free..
                Last edited by daddymack; 07-08-2017, 09:01 PM.
                "We are currently experiencing some technical difficulties due to reality fluctuations. The elves are working tirelessly to patch the correct version of reality. Activities here have been temporarily disabled since the fundamentals of mathematics, physics and reason may be incomprehensible during this indeterminate period of instability. Normal service will be restored once we are certain as to what 'normal' is."

                Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally used up and worn out, shouting '...man, what a ride!'
                "The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively" ~Bob Marley

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by daddymack View Post

                  are these guys on a label? a major label? or are they playing 'house' shows trying to eke out enough money to stay afloat and keep their gear working? Comments on youtube are not downloads or sales.
                  The best bands I've ever been in just lost our steady gig because we could not bring in enough 'drinkers'. In that band I have four 'in demand' session players, two semi-pro sidemen and a grammy winner. And that is the saddest truth of all. Even when I could fill the room, if they are drinking water, the house ain't making its nut...and I'm out of a gig. Live music, as a means of generating income, is dying for many of the same reasons guitars sales are softening...[DUI laws], lack of interest and too many other options.

                  Will I stop playing? No. I am doing more ancillary things, equipment repair, studio wiring, teaching...but at the end of the day, the reason I got in to music was to perform...and it gets more challenging all the time, because I will not do it for free..

                  I hear you. Again, your points are valid and compelling. I am not sure if the Knocks are on Major Labels. I have never heard them on the radio here. Most people I hangout with don't know who they are but they do have an indie following.

                  Like any other business and as you rightfully explained, the music business is not easy and can be very agile. However, there is a following out there, it was never there before but I can tell you it's there and forgive me for singing to the choir. I went to school in Ghana West Africa and was born in Liberia. Even the artists from the most remote village have songs and followers on Youtube. It was never like that.

                  I bought 3 LP's of Empire of the Sun because I discovered them on YouTube, never heard them on the Radio. I am not saying this is the ultimate solution but exposure can get you followers which may translate into revenue. Another place I like to discover artists are on Commercials.

                  I followed an artist from the Sandals resort commercial, they are just superb. Again this has nothing to do with Guitar sales but reading your frustration, maybe I am just trying to say there is a way.

                  I listen to all my African songs on Youtube and would gladly pay if these songs were available on other platforms.

                  If you stand for nothing your life becomes meaningless. The world and everything you have today exist because people before you stood up, worked hard and died to provide us all the opportunity. Get involved!

                  Audio Icon

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Interesting you mention African music. I don't know what the gigging scene is there; I've always been interested in visiting Ghana because I know people from there and the place sounds cool. But there's a lot of musical output these days coming from Africa and the Caribbean.

                    I think one reason for the supposed lack of interest in today's music is that most forms of music have reached what I call a "plateau of predictability." The "rules" for dance music or rock have become almost as rigid as the rules for a 12-bar blues. What made music vital is when it stopped turning inward and embraced that which is different - Elvis combining R&B with country, the Beatles incorporating Indian music, the Stones we-working the blues, Pink Floyd going interstellar.

                    I've seen a lot of competent bands, and entertaining ones, but I'm not seeing too many bands that excite me. For my next album project, I'm planning to incorporate an international dance flavor with electronic dance music. A lot of African music is guitar-driven, and that will work itself naturally in with the other music. I already did a "prototype" of this with "Maladie Du Coeur" from my "Neo-" album, and liked the results...now I want to take it further.

                    The biggest problem with live music is that no one needs it the same way they do groceries. So we're going to buy food no matter how it's packaged. But music has to be packaged in such a way as to create a "tractor beam" that draws people in. Granted, the loss of live venues means that it's harder than ever to find and entertain an audience. But all it takes is someone to start a movement, and the clubs will follow. Will that happen? I don't know; the odds are against it. But could it happen? Yes.
                    Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                    Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Anderton View Post
                      Interesting you mention African music. I don't know what the gigging scene is there; I've always been interested in visiting Ghana because I know people from there and the place sounds cool. But there's a lot of musical output these days coming from Africa and the Caribbean.

                      I think one reason for the supposed lack of interest in today's music is that most forms of music have reached what I call a "plateau of predictability." The "rules" for dance music or rock have become almost as rigid as the rules for a 12-bar blues. What made music vital is when it stopped turning inward and embraced that which is different - Elvis combining R&B with country, the Beatles incorporating Indian music, the Stones we-working the blues, Pink Floyd going interstellar.

                      I've seen a lot of competent bands, and entertaining ones, but I'm not seeing too many bands that excite me. For my next album project, I'm planning to incorporate an international dance flavor with electronic dance music. A lot of African music is guitar-driven, and that will work itself naturally in with the other music. I already did a "prototype" of this with "Maladie Du Coeur" from my "Neo-" album, and liked the results...now I want to take it further.

                      The biggest problem with live music is that no one needs it the same way they do groceries. So we're going to buy food no matter how it's packaged. But music has to be packaged in such a way as to create a "tractor beam" that draws people in. Granted, the loss of live venues means that it's harder than ever to find and entertain an audience. But all it takes is someone to start a movement, and the clubs will follow. Will that happen? I don't know; the odds are against it. But could it happen? Yes.

                      Craig: Given your interest. The link below is a song I co-produce and performed in Ghana.
                      I was hired by an artist from Switzerland to re-write parts of the song in Creole because I grew-up and attended school in Sierra Leone.

                      The point is, this artist left Switzerland to make world music and the rest is history.

                      I also lived in Ivory Coast and Guinea and listen to a lot of Zouk music.
                      Artist like: Monique Seka, Kassav and Fela Kuti.

                      For the record this song was recorded in 1998 and I have been a member of HC since 2006. This is the first time I have ever provided a song I worked on in an HC forum.

                      https://www.reverbnation.com/joelgra...q-judsonsierra
                      Last edited by audioicon; 07-09-2017, 11:42 AM.
                      If you stand for nothing your life becomes meaningless. The world and everything you have today exist because people before you stood up, worked hard and died to provide us all the opportunity. Get involved!

                      Audio Icon

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by audioicon View Post

                        I listen to all my African songs on Youtube and would gladly pay if these songs were available on other platforms.
                        KBCS out of Seattle has a great African music show on Thursday evenings, New music, old music, from all over the continent, two really knowledgable hosts. Unless you live in the Seattle area, you can listen over the Internet and they archive the programs (audio) for two weeks, so you can listen to a recent broadcast any time you want.

                        http://kbcs.fm/programs/music-of-africa/

                        I use Total Recorder and program it to record the shows (as well as other music programs I enjoy) automatically. Then, I can listen to them from my own computer any time, or load up my phone with them for a trip.


                        --
                        "Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
                        Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Anderton View Post
                          The biggest problem with live music is that no one needs it the same way they do groceries. So we're going to buy food no matter how it's packaged. But music has to be packaged in such a way as to create a "tractor beam" that draws people in. Granted, the loss of live venues means that it's harder than ever to find and entertain an audience.
                          Radio used to be that "tractor beam." You'd hear a good song on the radio and you'd buy the album. But even if there were still many stations broadcasting music, there isn't much in the way of "listening" music. Not much you'd like to sing, or invite friends over to listen to. If you're going to a dance club, you dance to it, but you wouldn't want to take the record home. And pop music that isn't rap is horribly repetitive. I heard a group on a recent rerun of Saturday Night Live a few weeks ago that didn't have but one sentence of lyrics, but they sure sang it a lot of times, so many that I don't remember it.

                          It's the independent stations that have programs with music selected by people who care about what they play. Sure, there are indie shows of music I think is pretty crappy, but there's plenty of music that makes me pay attention among those shows.

                          --
                          "Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
                          Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by MikeRivers View Post

                            KBCS out of Seattle has a great African music show on Thursday evenings, New music, old music, from all over the continent, two really knowledgable hosts. Unless you live in the Seattle area, you can listen over the Internet and they archive the programs (audio) for two weeks, so you can listen to a recent broadcast any time you want.

                            http://kbcs.fm/programs/music-of-africa/

                            I use Total Recorder and program it to record the shows (as well as other music programs I enjoy) automatically. Then, I can listen to them from my own computer any time, or load up my phone with them for a trip.


                            Mike, Thanks for the link, I am going to check it out. I am in Minnesota.
                            If you stand for nothing your life becomes meaningless. The world and everything you have today exist because people before you stood up, worked hard and died to provide us all the opportunity. Get involved!

                            Audio Icon

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by audioicon View Post
                              For the record this song was recorded in 1998 and I have been a member of HC since 2006. This is the first time I have ever provided a song I worked on in an HC forum.
                              I'm glad you did! Very seductive music, very danceable and slinky. I love it.
                              Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Anderton View Post

                                I'm glad you did! Very seductive music, very danceable and slinky. I love it.

                                Thanks Craig. The Guitar sound was played/produced using an instrument made with dry shell of a Pumpkin and some strings.

                                Thanks again!
                                If you stand for nothing your life becomes meaningless. The world and everything you have today exist because people before you stood up, worked hard and died to provide us all the opportunity. Get involved!

                                Audio Icon

                                Comment













                                Working...
                                X