Moby Grape - Best Rock & Roll band you've never heard of.

[davd_indigo]

In my adult life I've run into about maybe half a dozen people who knew Moby Grape. When it happened to come up in conversation. The article says they sold about 200,000 copies of their 1st album. But It was a combination miscalculation in promoting them (Columbia released 5 singles from their first album simultaneously to make a splash) AND their burning out (at least 2 of them on acid) within a couple of years, The saga goes on and on. It wouldn't matter much if they hadn't been so f'ing great.

 

Someone shared a great web doc piece about them. This brought them back to my mind and listening to them again.

http://web.musicaficionado.com/main.html#!/article/What_Happened_To_Moby_Grape

 

And I thought I'd share just one song from their debut album.

Moby Grape "Mr Blues"

 

[video=youtube;5qkfBP8ZwA0]

 

Moby Grape "Omaha" on Mike Douglas. This gives a good look at Skip Spence on rhythm guitar. You can see how having been a drummer didn't hurt his rhythm guitar playing.

[video=youtube;Z7SLYxbD0Hs]

 

 

Lastly, if anyone is interested, I just found this audio from the San Francisco Avalon Ballroom in 1967. More illustration of just how great they were for a short time.

 

https://youtu.be/pTSv-Ue1kJo

[bookumdano4]

At the time I bought the double-shrink wrapped Purple+red Moby Grape albums in the summer of 67 or whenever, I was already following Buffalo Springfield and this Grape stuff was constantly in the record store but there was zero pr anywhere on the planet..... that I could find anyway. The Grape album display was fairly large and everpresent, so I eventually bought the bundle one afternoon. Must've been right after Monterey.

 

I didn't personally like the Grape album at all and the included jam album was just too much addl music. The band sounded too loose for my tastes. I'd been going to see the Springfield play shows as well as owning their one (at the time) album and a few singles and remember thinking, "oh, Moby Grape is also doing a 3-guitar thing". I would also find out years later that when the two bands played/lived together for a week or so up in SF the previous fall, that Stills came up with the E-A verse structure of the later "For What It's Worth" by basically ripping off the idea in "Murder in My Heart for the Judge". So apparently they had a few things in common.

 

Springfield live was breathtaking. I never saw Moby Grape play a live gig but their few videos (Mike Douglas etc) sort of have them coming off like Jefferson Airplane, less one chick, and plus a guitar. imo anyway.

 

Didn't Spence implode at several points? I don't remember their exact story. But again, someone at Columbia obviously put some money into their record displays in the shops.... either that or the shops weren't allowed to do returns hahaha.

[davd_indigo]

At the time I bought the double-shrink wrapped Purple+red Moby Grape albums in the summer of 67 or whenever, I was already following Buffalo Springfield and this Grape stuff was constantly in the record store but there was zero pr anywhere on the planet..... that I could find anyway. The Grape album display was fairly large and everpresent, so I eventually bought the bundle one afternoon. Must've been right after Monterey.

 

.

 

This is wild ! When I was 13 in 1966 the local pop/rock station was WLOF Channel 95 (AM). They had a tie-in with some sort of national tabloid sized weekly paper called GO Mag. It was all there was for a kid in Sanford Fl. But I could get hold of Go Mag locally and for free. So I was reading all the hype about how great they were and the 5 sigles (10 songs) coming out at the same time. I was all primed and bought my (mono) copy as soon as I could get to the JC Penney's 17 miles away.

 

Go Mag was reporting on Sgt Pepper. while it was being recorded. I remember they said something about a kazoo (or maybe tissue on a comb) being recorded. I guess is was used on on "Lovely Rita". And Go Mag made me aware of Jimi Hendrix before he was huge in the US. I think I remember reading about him playing with his teeth. His circus act in his early psychedelic days This little paper was back when information was hard to come by.

 

Oh, and my cousin a town away bought the double album - "Wow" and "Grape Jam". We were disappointed in them. And we wanted badly to love them. The 1st album was so fantastic (the debut "Moby Grape" album) . The web article I linked says that they got caught up in the Sgt. Pepper fever. There was a mad rush to make trippy theme albums after SgtP. Or something like that. But they were just a great 5 piece live on the spot band with 5 strong singers. They all had great preparatory experience leading up to MG. From what I've read, a guy named Matthew Katz found them, enlisted them, named them and managed them. There's all sorts of poisoned folklore about him.

 

 

 

 

 

[AlamoJoe]

The first album was, and still is, fantastic! All the songs hold up even today. I still have the "Finger" album on vinyl, but bought a cd set which had both that one, the Jam album and several bonus tracks as well. Moby Grape's lack of rise to supergroup was not due to a lack of talent or material. They had loads of both. It was bad management all the way down the line.

Yeah, Skip Spence had mental and drug related issues but had they had better management and guidance they'd still be a household name. I'd put their debut album against any album released that year. It had it all. Great songs, great playing, great singing.

 

I still listen to the Grape regularly.

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

Who says I never heard of Moby Grape? They were right there in my record collection with Bloodwyn Pig, Fever Tree, Blue Cheer, 13th Floor Elevators, Spooky Tooth, and the others.

 

Notes

[AlamoJoe]

With exception of Bloodwyn Pig....Ditto in my collection..

[Notes_Norton]

Who says I never heard of Moby Grape? They were right there in my record collection with Bloodwyn Pig, Fever Tree, Blue Cheer, 13th Floor Elevators, Spooky Tooth, and the others.

 

Notes

 

You need to find some Bloodwyn Pig then. An offshoot of Jethro Tull before Tull got famous (what a mistake that seems to have been)

[Vito Corleone]

Being from Nor Cal, I'm certainly quite familiar with Moby Grape. Never were my cup of tea, however. Way too loose.

[Anderton]

Opened for them twice. When they were "on," they were a really good live band.

[davd_indigo]

Both these statements - seeing them and them being too loose AND they were a really good live band, make sense for MG. I went to Wikipedia hoping to try and see a time line form them. I figure they maybe had 1 - 1 1/2 prime years of brilliance. From Wiki, it looks like they recorded some of their 2nd album missing 2 band members. And Wiki says they signed over the rights to the "Moby Grape" name in exchange for Matthew Katz continuing to pay their rent and bills until the band made money. Losing their name prevented them in later years from reforming under their legendary name.

 

And BTW, the Wiki article says that having 3 skilled guitar players gave them some mileage. It says that they created some sort of weave (my word) called "crosstalk". Many of you have probably heard of it. I have not. Wiki says that Peter Lewis was excellent at finger picking and his style contributed to this "weave". I'm curious about crosstalk now. I guess I need to do some listening now.

 

But I wonder what years you heard them in N Cal. ?

[Phil O'Keefe]

YMMV, but IMHO Jellyfish (another NoCal band) is is the best rock and roll band that most people have probably never heard of... and yes, I'm familiar with Moby Grape.

[gismo recording]

YMMV' date=' but IMHO Jellyfish (another NoCal band) is is the best rock and roll band that most people have probably never heard of... and yes, I'm familiar with Moby Grape.[/quote']

 

​Jellyfish is a great band. Their vocal harmonies are amazing. Right up there with Queen and the Beach Boys.

[davd_indigo]

I listened to Jellyfish. Great stuff. I liked hearing the marimbas and (what I assume was) a glockenspiel.

 

I listened to Moby Grape yesterday on YT while doing some kitchen chores. Listening to songs from their 1st album brought back to me just why their 1st album was so great. I'd been going on memory before re-listening.

 

So to try and convey to the non-believers what made them so great, I'm posting 4 songs (without visual aid which use so much real estate).

 

Moby Grape "Lazy Me"

 

 

Moby Grape "Come In The Morning"

 

 

Moby Grape "Sitting By The Window"

 

 

Moby Grape "Omaha"

 

[Geoff Grace]

I'm familiar with both Moby Grape and Jellyfish, but my vote for "best band few people have heard of" goes to Gentle Giant.

 

I haven't heard Moby Grape since the '60s. I'll have to give them another try.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Notes_Norton]

Jellyfish I never heard of - going to look them up. Thanks.

[UstadKhanAli]

I've heard Moby Grape for quite some time, although I'm still hardly familiar with them. I think we have some sort of compilation or some such thing around here some place. Will hafta look for it. LZ, particularly Robert Plant, was really taken with them early on.

[Anderton]

Just for kicks I checked out some of the links, hadn't heard any Moby Grape since...well, since we played with them. Divorced from the insane hype at the time that would have turned off anyone (which included me), I was able to hear the music for what it was. And y'know, it was pretty cool.

 

Anyone hear of Bonnie Hayes and the Wild Combo? Pure pop for now people...

 

[video=youtube;2x5ynsvxANQ]

 

 

[AlamoJoe]

I'm still kind of Wowed that you opened up for Moby Grape. Everytime I think I've kind of got a handle on your musical journey, I find out something else that makes you even cooler!

Thing about Grape for me...I was knocked out that they could go from all out rockers like Omaha and Hey Grandma; to something as downbeat, emotional and downright beautiful as 8 05.

Knocked out that you opened for them.

[Danhedonia]

When you try to kill your bandmate with an axe, it can make lengthy trips in the van between gigs a bit more difficult.

 

I'm not old enough to remember the first go-round, but as a music nerd I was force fed the Skip Spence "Oar" hype, and didn't make much of it. Then I somehow wound up getting "Omaha" in my brain and that led to "Hey Grandma" and ... well: great band, while it lasted.

 

Listen, my friends ... is still one of the great, great rock song opening lines I know. Such an incredible performance; that song is like an historical document of a certain time and place.

 

 

[Etienne Rambert]

When you try to kill your bandmate with an axe, it can make lengthy trips in the van between gigs a bit more difficult.

 

I'm not old enough to remember the first go-round, but as a music nerd I was force fed the Skip Spence "Oar" hype, and didn't make much of it. Then I somehow wound up getting "Omaha" in my brain and that led to "Hey Grandma" and ... well: great band, while it lasted.

 

Listen, my friends ... is still one of the great, great rock song opening lines I know. Such an incredible performance; that song is like an historical document of a certain time and place.

 

 

A time and place that has little value for me.

 

This thread has the Way Back Machine revved up though. So I'll pitch in. I remember the band and the hype. Though I never saw them live. I was in high school at the time.

 

It's what someone in this thread called the looseness in their sound, that left me unimpressed. Looseness in New Orleans music -- I like. The same quality in NO-Cal Summer of Love guitar bands -- just sounds unrehearsed to me.

 

Another band in that era I liked was Spirit. I don't know if Spirit was No.Cal or So.Cal. But they were tight - even in free-form jams. I think it's the drummer who made the difference.

 

Sad story about Skip Spence though.

 

[davd_indigo]

 

A time and place that has little value for me.

 

This thread has the Way Back Machine revved up though. So I'll pitch in. I remember the band and the hype. Though I never saw them live. I was in high school at the time.

 

It's what someone in this thread called the looseness in their sound, that left me unimpressed. Looseness in New Orleans music -- I like. The same quality in NO-Cal Summer of Love guitar bands -- just sounds unrehearsed to me.

 

 

I pretty much live in a musical "way back machine". My preferences seem to be roughly 1930-1980.

 

I ordered and received (and ripped to my phone) the reissue "Vintage: The Very Best of Moby Grape". I have listened on my Bluetooth headphones for about 2 hours while walking (my best listening times) for exercise.

 

Listening, especially to the songs from their 1st album, I came to hear what was referred to as guitar "crosstalk" between the 3 guitarists. Generally, each guitar player has an independent line he plays. Maybe Skip Spence (since we know he was RHYTHM guitar) is playing chords sometimes. Often (I assume since he seems to have been the strongest guitarist) Jerry Miller seems to be riffing over the top of the other two guitar parts. I can see (actually hear) the comparison to New Orleans trad jazz. Like NOrleans trad jazz, this approach depends on the competence of the component parts. IMO, this approach works well on the music I've listened to by MG. I can easily imagine the times when "the chemicals turned on them" (a line I heard from Greg Allman decades ago) and they were not in top form, MG sounded loose and sloppy. But again, IMO when the guitar lines work, and are well played, they contribute to almost a musical sparkle that just makes a person feel good. Their vocal harmonies contribute, as well as inventive song writing. I noticed Moby Grape has a tendency to create a little contrasting section within a song. Also a tendency to have "outros" (as opposed to "intros"). I think someone (or ones) in the band knew what they were doing.

 

Listening to what has been called crosstalk, the 1st thing that came to mind was the Beatles "Dear Prudence". I couldn't find the White Album version with the high guitar line.

Beatles "Dear Prudence"

 

On these two mostly acoustic songs, their interweaving guitar lines can be pretty clearly heard. There is some great guitar solo work on the outro of "Someday".

Moby Grape "Someday"

 

Moby Grape "8:05"

 

[Etienne Rambert]

Who says I never heard of Moby Grape? They were right there in my record collection with Bloodwyn Pig, Fever Tree, Blue Cheer, 13th Floor Elevators, Spooky Tooth, and the others.

 

Notes

 

Wow,Blue Cheer, Spooky Tooth and Fever Tree. I remember the latter quite well - a Houston band. Didn't like any of them except Fever Tree. I loved this song: Nothing loose about it.

 

xYe1HnZvioA

[AlamoJoe]

They were big stuff here in Houston back then, I still listen to tracks off that first album regularly.

[davd_indigo]

I listened to the FT song. Very trippy. I believe Dallas had Mouse and The Traps. Here doing a Dylan styled shtick. With the guitar fills from Like A Rolling Stone, and the tambourine. Have I missed any cliches ? But I really love the dated sounds. Moby Grape don't sound dated to me. I listened to some Buffalo Springfield recently. I didn't think they sounded dated either. Thinking about Jefferson Airplane, they seem to sound dated. But in a good way. Blah blah blah...

 

[video=youtube;XiA8FRH6nQc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiA8FRH6nQc

[Anderton]

If you're not familiar with the Dukes of Stratosphear album "Chips from the Chocolate Fireball" (you can hear

), you're missing out on greatness. It was cut by XTC as a goof on/tribute to psychedelic music, but unlike something like Spinal Tap, it doesn't make fun of the genre...the best analogy I can give is it's like a Gibson Custom Shop 1959 Les Paul compared to the original 1959 Les Paul...hard to tell the difference unless you really know your guitars. "Chips from the Chocolate Fireball" has every psychedelic music affectation and cliche ever invented, but done with class. The second song is about as close as you'll get to Syd Barrett without actually being Syd Barrett.