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  • Open Letter to YouTube, "Pushers of Piracy"

    Tell it like it is, Maria...and here's an open letter from Irv Azoff.

    Musicians create, YouTube takes. I won't bore you with my story of trying to deal with YouTube on how I could compensate artists whose songs I've covered in my own channel...bottom line was I couldn't.

    As a consumer, I love the fact that I can hear just about any piece of music from any era. But with YouTube being the #1 source for music playback, there needs to be some way to compensate the musicians whose work is all over the site, and in most cases, uploaded without consent from the copyright holder.

    This isn't just about "artists should be compensated," it's written more from a legal standpoint about how existing laws are being broken. As Google, Chrome, and YouTube amass ever more power, at some point "Alphabet" will have enough power not just to flaunt the laws, but create them. At that point control becomes irreversible.

    Guess it's time to switch to Firefox...

    Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

    Subscribe, like, and share the links!

  • #2
    Another very interesting piece about streaming and YouTube from Warner Music's CEO. Warner is the first major label whose primary revenue source is now sreaming.
    Simplicity, my new album project, is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

    Subscribe, like, and share the links!

    Comment


    • #3
      I was surprised recently when a friend of mine posted a link to one of my songs on his FB page. The link went to YT. I never gave permission for that. Yeah, it bothers me but I`m not sure what to do and to be completely honest, I`m not exactly raking it in so I have resigned myself to just accepting the fact that my songs are out there for anyone to listen to and download if they`re creative without me seeing a penny.

      I have said this for years, the record industry did not fall behind with the Internet as many believe. The real issue is an ethical one. The Internet allows for piracy and until that is regulated (I`m not holding my breath), its the wild wild west.

      Comment


      • #4
        What is the Firefox comment referring to?
        Originally posted by Unconfigured Static HTML Widget...







        Write Something, or Drag and Drop Images Here...

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        • Ernest Buckley
          Ernest Buckley commented
          Editing a comment
          Google, Chrome, YT are the same company... time to move to Firefox. I believe thats what Craig is referring to.
          Last edited by Ernest Buckley; 05-18-2016, 06:56 PM.

      • #5
        Originally posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
        Googe, Chrome, YT are the same company... time to move to Firefox. I believe thats what Craig is referring to.


        Oh, ok. If you stop to consider Firefox Youtube addons though, it gets very confusing.
        Originally posted by Unconfigured Static HTML Widget...







        Write Something, or Drag and Drop Images Here...

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        • #6
          Originally posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
          I have said this for years, the record industry did not fall behind with the Internet as many believe. The real issue is an ethical one. The Internet allows for piracy and until that is regulated (I`m not holding my breath), its the wild wild west.
          I finished reading Craig's links and found Maria's article fairly compelling. But the only way "fair" treatment of musicians (or of course anyone) is going to happen is if there is a consensus of principles a large minority, at least, of musicians begin to uphold. Unfortunately the internet is not structured to abide by users principles. Users are to be used. Like many of you, when I first started using the internet, Corporate Claws hadn't really hooked in,& there seemed to be the opportunity for egalitarianism.

          I'm reminded of this quote from writer Jerry Mander:
          "In this culture, we have science and technology as religion. We no longer have a religious or
          philosophical basis for making choices regarding the evolution of technology. All those decisions are
          made in the corporate world. But there are other societies where taboos, the very concept of
          taboo still exist. Taboo is probably the only concept that is taboo in this society..."
          [INDENT=3] [/INDENT]



          Comment


          • #7
            Speaking as a casual observer, it looks to me like the industry itself fronts all manner of stolen / semi stolen material - besides bleeding the artists as dry as possible.
            Originally posted by Unconfigured Static HTML Widget...







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            • #8
              I have mixed feelings about the availability of music and other copyrighted material on youtube. On one hand, like most people I like listening to and sharing songs. On the other hand I'm sad to see how much less opportunity there is today to "Make it in music" as we defined it before the Internet came along.

              On the other-other hand... isn't this Socialism... what so many people are clamoring for? I can't tell you how much free information I've given away since the Internet arrived, information that at one time people would pay consulting fees for.

              The natural state of the Internet gravitates toward a bartering system. Some of us provide info that we're still paying off college loans to have expertise in a given field. Like this forum and many others on many other topics... you google it and you find free consulting. So on that other-other hand there's a part of me that feels I'm doing my part in this Interweb of free stuff, so why shouldn't I be able to listen to free music.

              And then there's another concept I've mentioned in past discussions about youtube and other free streaming media. I mostly listen to music I've already paid for at some time in the past. At some point in my life I bought Boston's debut album on vinyl, cassette, and CD. I wasn't paying for the physical medium, but rather the right to listen to the material on that medium. IMO when the medium wears out that doesn't take away my right to listen to the songs on that album, which I already paid for.

              So "More Than a Feeling" is mine, only my CD copy of it didn't last forever as Sony promised. My audio cassette of the album still plays... sorta...
              Last edited by Beck; 05-24-2016, 01:06 AM.
              <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

              “Music is well said to be the speech of angels... nothing among the utterances allowed to man is felt to be so divine."

              ~Thomas Carlyle

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Beck View Post
                I have mixed feelings about the availability of music and other copyrighted material on youtube. On one hand, like most people I like listening to and sharing songs. On the other hand I'm sad to see how much less opportunity there is today to "Make it in music" as we defined it before the Internet came along.

                On the other-other hand... isn't this Socialism... what so many people are clamoring for? I can't tell you how much free information I've given away since the Internet arrived, information that at one time people would pay consulting fees for.

                The natural state of the Internet gravitates toward a bartering system. Some of us provide info that we're still paying off college loans to have expertise in a given field. Like this forum and many others on many other topics... you google it and you find free consulting. So on that other-other hand there's a part of me that feels I'm doing my part in this Interweb of free stuff, so why shouldn't I be able to listen to free music.

                And then there's another concept I've mentioned in past discussions about youtube and other free streaming media. I mostly listen to music I've already paid for at some time in the past. At some point in my life I bought Boston's debut album on vinyl, cassette, and CD. I wasn't paying for the physical medium, but rather the right to listen to the material on that medium. IMO when the medium wears out that doesn't take away my right to listen to the songs on that album, which I already paid for.

                So "More Than a Feeling" is mine, only my CD copy of it didn't last forever as Sony promised. My audio cassette of the album still plays... sorta...
                The socialist perspective is one I have pondered in recent years as well because as you know, I lean towards a Democratic Socialist system (as I think most people do but don`t know it).

                As I have said many times before, this is an ethical issue. We all enjoy art of some sort whether its music, photography, sculpture, etc... Artists deserve and need to be paid for their work if they are to continue making art. I would love to spend more time in the studio writing and recording but I need another job or two to pay for my lifestyle and the gear I use to make my art. God knows, if I depended on song royalties or album sales, I would have died from starvation years ago.

                I expect NYC to provide sanitation, a public library, street lights, a public school system, parks, etc... . I pay my taxes and the City of New York provides certain services for those taxes. We need to pay for art because it serves us all in a certain capacity.

                Since 2016 started, I think I have purchased 10 albums in iTunes already. Yes, I could have gone to YT to listen to those records but I sincerely believe in supporting an artist with my hard earned cash. Its an ethical decision I have made.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Beck View Post

                  The natural state of the Internet gravitates toward a bartering system. Some of us provide info that we're still paying off college loans to have expertise in a given field. Like this forum and many others on many other topics... you google it and you find free consulting. So on that other-other hand there's a part of me that feels I'm doing my part in this Interweb of free stuff, so why shouldn't I be able to listen to free music.

                  And then there's another concept I've mentioned in past discussions about youtube and other free streaming media. I mostly listen to music I've already paid for at some time in the past. At some point in my life I bought Boston's debut album on vinyl, cassette, and CD. I wasn't paying for the physical medium, but rather the right to listen to the material on that medium. IMO when the medium wears out that doesn't take away my right to listen to the songs on that album, which I already paid for.

                  So "More Than a Feeling" is mine, only my CD copy of it didn't last forever as Sony promised. My audio cassette of the album still plays... sorta...
                  Couple of thoughts:

                  You always had the right to make one "archive" or "backup" copy of that album for exactly the problem you describe. Obviously that needs to be done sooner rather than later, to capture the recording in as good condition as possible.

                  The bartering concept is interesting. However, the way you wrote this reads as if you're expecting to be able to take anything in exchange for what you've given. A fair barter is making the deal with another person before the transaction takes place. Simply taking someone's work without permission, because it appears on the internet, and because you feel you've contributed to the internet, is not a barter. It's like parking your car at a lot and expecting to drive off later with any car you find parked nearby.

                  "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
                    I was surprised recently when a friend of mine posted a link to one of my songs on his FB page. The link went to YT. I never gave permission for that. Yeah, it bothers me but I`m not sure what to do and to be completely honest, I`m not exactly raking it in so I have resigned myself to just accepting the fact that my songs are out there for anyone to listen to and download if they`re creative without me seeing a penny.

                    I have said this for years, the record industry did not fall behind with the Internet as many believe. The real issue is an ethical one. The Internet allows for piracy and until that is regulated (I`m not holding my breath), its the wild wild west.
                    There's a tendency to forget that Facebook has little to no privacy...because giving anyone other than yourself access to something means giving the world access if that person (in this case, your friend) can't be trusted to maintain your privacy.
                    "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Craig Vecchione View Post

                      There's a tendency to forget that Facebook has little to no privacy...because giving anyone other than yourself access to something means giving the world access if that person (in this case, your friend) can't be trusted to maintain your privacy.
                      My friend went on YT to find my song, then shared it on FB. I wasn`t upset with him, I was upset that YT had my song in its entirety for anyone to listen to and make a copy of if they wanted to.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Craig Vecchione View Post

                        Couple of thoughts:

                        You always had the right to make one "archive" or "backup" copy of that album for exactly the problem you describe. Obviously that needs to be done sooner rather than later, to capture the recording in as good condition as possible.
                        Yes, but perhaps the availability of free streaming audio is a legitimate backup system along with the traditional forms we've always recognized. There is a downside for the listener however, or at least listeners like me. We still prefer analog and/or hi resolution digital, so a lot of what is available for free is inferior. But it will do in a pinch like FM radio did, or even AM radio did.

                        Originally posted by Craig Vecchione View Post
                        The bartering concept is interesting. However, the way you wrote this reads as if you're expecting to be able to take anything in exchange for what you've given. A fair barter is making the deal with another person before the transaction takes place. Simply taking someone's work without permission, because it appears on the internet, and because you feel you've contributed to the internet, is not a barter. It's like parking your car at a lot and expecting to drive off later with any car you find parked nearby.
                        One thing I did not clarify is that this bartering system was not my idea. I feel I'm just observing something that society has created together. It's a silent agreement with no contracts. The agreement is manifest by the silently agreed upon behavior. For example, Common Law Marriage. Nobody ever said, "I do" but after a period of time the state says, "You are." I'm actually very conservative, so I have to decide how much if any I want to p[participate in this system that has evolved.

                        Then there is one more element that doesn't make it free anyway in most cases, the same way television is not free even with an antena for "Free" broadcast and radio was not/is not free. Commercials. We sit through commercials from 15 seconds to sometimes a minute long before we can listen to a song. These sponsors are paying youtube, so someone is getting paid.
                        Last edited by Beck; 05-24-2016, 07:23 PM.
                        <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                        “Music is well said to be the speech of angels... nothing among the utterances allowed to man is felt to be so divine."

                        ~Thomas Carlyle

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Ernest Buckley View Post

                          The socialist perspective is one I have pondered in recent years as well because as you know, I lean towards a Democratic Socialist system (as I think most people do but don`t know it).
                          Yes, and it is hard to pass up a free stuff... whatever it is.

                          Originally posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
                          As I have said many times before, this is an ethical issue. We all enjoy art of some sort whether its music, photography, sculpture, etc... Artists deserve and need to be paid for their work if they are to continue making art. I would love to spend more time in the studio writing and recording but I need another job or two to pay for my lifestyle and the gear I use to make my art. God knows, if I depended on song royalties or album sales, I would have died from starvation years ago.
                          Yep, I can't disagree with that, but today the line that separates professional and hobbyist is pretty blurry. People can and do create create fully professional sounding music and other arts just for the satisfaction of being recognized. That is, they don't ask for or expect payment. The old system of the record companies being in charge is gone. So the question is and has been for a while, how do we make a living as artists? Are those days gone never to be seen again? I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud when it comes to that.

                          Originally posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
                          I expect NYC to provide sanitation, a public library, street lights, a public school system, parks, etc... . I pay my taxes and the City of New York provides certain services for those taxes. We need to pay for art because it serves us all in a certain capacity.
                          Public libraries where we’ve always been able to go to read or checkout free books, and later free music and movies. So there are some things in the balance such as copyright vs preservation, fair use and educational use, etc. Preservation without public access is pointless. Thus the library has always been an important institution in American society. Does youtube function like a cyber public library in some capacity? I think one could make a case for that.
                          Last edited by Beck; 05-24-2016, 08:11 PM.
                          <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

                          “Music is well said to be the speech of angels... nothing among the utterances allowed to man is felt to be so divine."

                          ~Thomas Carlyle

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by Beck View Post
                            Yes, but perhaps the availability of free streaming audio is a legitimate backup system along with the traditional forms we've always recognized. There is a downside for the listener however, or at least listeners like me. We still prefer analog and/or hi resolution digital, so a lot of what is available for free is inferior. But it will do in a pinch like FM radio did, or even AM radio did.
                            I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the license to make backup copies applies only to the actual media you purchase. If you buy a vinyl record, you may use that as the source. If you d/l from iTunes, that's your source (good luck copying that), if CD, well you get the picture.


                            Originally posted by Beck View Post
                            One thing I did not clarify is that this bartering system was not my idea. I feel I'm just observing something that society has created together. It's a silent agreement with no contracts. The agreement is manifest by the silently agreed upon behavior. For example, Common Law Marriage. Nobody ever said, "I do" but after a period of time the state says, "You are." I'm actually very conservative, so I have to decide how much if any I want to p[participate in this system that has evolved.

                            Then there is one more element that doesn't make it free anyway in most cases, the same way television is not free even with an antena for "Free" broadcast and radio was not/is not free. Commercials. We sit through commercials from 15 seconds to sometimes a minute long before we can listen to a song. These sponsors are paying youtube, so someone is getting paid.
                            I wasn't under the impression that was your idea...we're just talking about concepts and observations.

                            Indeed, YouTube has a racket. Where else can you earn money from advertising, and have almost no overhead costs for the "product or service" you provide? It reminds me of a local situation...an old rail line spur was abandoned by CSX a few years ago when the only remaining shipper bailed. A wealthy guy decided to buy the line for cheap, and open his own tourist line.

                            He bought some derelict cars, a few old locomotives, and then asked for volunteers to restore the equipment. If you've ever known a "railfan", you know how these folks can be. He quickly had dozens of suckers doing hard labor to restore the track and equipment (NOTHING on a railroad is either clean or lightweight). Compare this with the average musician looking for his "break"..he'll play for free for "exposure". This isn't a charitable organization or a non-profit...the guy is charging $40 per ticket for a 12 mile round trip.. just as YouTube is a for-profit venture. Obviously he has considerable cash invested, but imagine what 15 or 20 employees' salary and benefits would cost annually....

                            Nice racket, if you can manage to set it up......

                            "If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else" - Yogi Berra, 1925-2015

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