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Will All Our Musical Culture Have Disappeared in 1,000 Years?


Anderton

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I had an idea for a short story...the grid goes down due to a massive solar flare, which of course fries all computers and servers. (No, I'm not obsessed with this...but it's not a matter of "if," but "when." Historically, huge flares have happened about every 150 years, and the last one was 156 years ago.) Because all music had been transferred to the cloud and streaming services, centuries later no one has any idea what the music of the 21st century sounded like. Then an archaeologist stumbles across a major find - a Best Buy store in Missouri, perfectly preserved after centuries of seismic shifts along the New Madrid fault buried it. It's the only indication of what our musical culture was like...and he tries to reverse engineer what society was like based on the art we produced. You can only imagine what he thought :)

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Because all music had been transferred to the cloud and streaming services' date=' centuries later no one has any idea what the music of the 21st century sounded like. Then an archaeologist stumbles across a major find - a Best Buy store in Missouri, perfectly preserved after centuries of seismic shifts along the New Madrid fault buried it. It's the only indication of what our musical culture was like...and he tries to reverse engineer what society was like based on the art we produced. You can only imagine what he thought :)[/quote']

 

If he wants to hear what our music sounds like, first he'll have to reverse enginner a CD. How hard do you think that's going to be? Hopefully it's an up-to-date Best Buy that has some LP records. It doesn't take much technology to play a phnograph record. And if the jackets are intact and they can still read English 1000 years from now, it wouldn't take much imagination to think that they may be a means of storing recorded music.

 

See the story "Time Shards" by Gregory Benford.

 

 

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The article seems to say it wouldn't be a worldwide wipe-out even as a worst-case scenario. Sounds like a good time to buy the best surge-protector you can buy, 'tho. And look into hand-cranked vinyl players. :)

 

There's lots of music lost in the past that musicologists work to reconstruct the best they can. As with all scholarly quests to reconstruct the past, the less hard data, the freer and less reliable the speculation.

 

Maybe another question to consider is whether, 1000 years from now, anyone will care about cultural detritus such as popular music from centuries and millennia past. Can't assume civilization will still exist in any form we find similar to ours.

 

And I wonder if there will a point at which computers will be able to measure a current state and accurately reconstruct the past of that state in reverse-engineering fashion. Maybe all knowledge about the past will not be derived from direct evidence, but from extrapolations backwards in time based on current observations, ginned up on request via computers.

 

nat whilk ii

 

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it's not a matter of "if' date='" but "when."[/quote']

 

Interesting thought, but your story won't be fiction. It's a true story... just hasn't happened yet. Might be closer to 100 years. This is why I'm no fan of the cloud or in any other way seeing people putting all their apples into one basket. Physical medium will always be the only way you can be sure you actually posses and have control over something. And sure we can lose everything in a house fire, so keep backups in different formats and in different places. Short of a house fire, sinkhole, tornado, theft etc, my analog tape originals and backups will outlast CD/DVD and CD-R/DVD-R. Well they already have. :)

 

 

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Ultimately, if you're concerned at all about the postapocalyptic survival of music, I'd advise buying acoustic instruments and song books. And books on how to build instruments, for that matter.

 

One the electricity is gone, all the discs and hard drives and tapes in the world will be useful only to be burned to help keep you warm in winter.

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As long as musical instruments (and the human voice) exists, music will continue to be handed down. Tons of music still exists from prior to the advent of recorded music. Would it even be necessary for a recorded version of "Three Blind Mice" to exist for everyone to know it?

 

I do fear the 'Cloud' however. I don't even know what it is. I presume all the stuff in the ​Cloud is sitting on giant servers somewhere in Cupertino? I have no idea. But the idea that most people won't keep physical copies of anything in the near future is kinda scary.

 

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As long as musical instruments (and the human voice) exists, music will continue to be handed down. Tons of music still exists from prior to the advent of recorded music. Would it even be necessary for a recorded version of "Three Blind Mice" to exist for everyone to know it?

 

I do fear the 'Cloud' however. I don't even know what it is. I presume all the stuff in the ​Cloud is sitting on giant servers somewhere in Cupertino? I have no idea. But the idea that most people won't keep physical copies of anything in the near future is kinda scary.

 

Digital is relatively fragile, and so if one is storing digital stuff, you want to back it up in several different places. Off-site but connected via internet (cloud), off-site on a HD, and on-site at the very least. Possibly on another form of media as well.

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If you really are concerned about backups, multiple media formats stored in multiple locations is the only way to go IMHO.

 

I'd never trust the cloud as my sole source of backup. For that matter, I don't think of it as "secure" either. If it's stored in the cloud, it's one hack away from being accessible to the public at large.

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The last significant solar storm that was on a par with the Carrington event in 1859 was just a few years ago in 2012. Fortunately it missed hitting the earth... but sooner or later, another one will hit us.

 

While I occasionally worry about solar coronal mass ejections, it's a gamma ray burst that worries me even more. We could eventually recover from the former, but if hit by the later from somewhere within our own galaxy, it has the potential to cause mass extinction.

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I'd never trust the cloud as my sole source of backup. For that matter, I don't think of it as "secure" either. If it's stored in the cloud, it's one hack away from being accessible to the public at large.

 

The argument in favor of cloud storage boils down to a simple matter of comparison - that is, comparing the level of data security maintained by the average business or individual, to the level of data security that the big cloud storage outfits can provide. I agree with the argument that most people would probably increase their data security letting the big outfits store the stuff.

 

Especially for smallish to medium-sized organizations and businesses that handle a lot of sensitive data that are typically run by people with no computer savvy to speak of - medical practices, law firms, local governments, schools, and so on.

 

But of course, the cloud then becomes a juicy target for the hackers, the more stuff that's out there.

 

Even increasing data security by storing it in multiple places increases the number of places it can be found by the bad guys.

 

The worst thing, 'tho, is to just be fatalistic about it. "Oh, if they get my data, they get it. I can't spend my time worrying about it." Well, that person should spend some time worrying about it and taking some steps to protect themselves.

 

The connection between fatalism and laziness is mighty one that sends many a personal destiny down the crapper. Us males I think are particularly prone to it.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

 

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Even increasing data security by storing it in multiple places increases the number of places it can be found by the bad guys.

 

 

True, but that also depends on how you're storing it, and whether or not the people who are interested in getting their hands on that data know they can find it there. Online cloud storage is one thing, but if you're running tape backups at the office and taking them home at night and storing them in your home office safe as part of your multiple backups regimen, they're going to be secure unless the bad guys break into your home, crack open your safe and take the backup tape.

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This is why I still have computers that will never see a network and I still do backups the old-fashioned way. Someone would have to breach all my security measures and physically steal the computer and find the backups. That's too much trouble for hackers because they have to get out of their chairs and they would have to deal with an armed homeowner. But having to get out of their chairs is probably deterrent enough. wink.png

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True, but that also depends on how you're storing it, and whether or not the people who are interested in getting their hands on that data know they can find it there. Online cloud storage is one thing, but if you're running tape backups at the office and taking them home at night and storing them in your home office safe as part of your multiple backups regimen, they're going to be secure unless the bad guys break into your home, crack open your safe and take the backup tape.

 

Agreed.

 

A question that interests me that I have yet to see in public discussion is the ownership status of data after death. So you have a few terrabtyes of data in the cloud under your name and you depart this vale of tears for good.

 

Can someone inherit your data stash?

 

What will the cloud storage people do with your data after you abandon it? Can they sell it to pay for continuing to store it, like landlords or storage unit outfits sometimes do?

 

"Data" is so non-specific. Some of it is probably self-created. Maybe most is simply copied from other sources. Some of it might be quite sensitive - data on 3rd parties, other data that you safeguarded from prying eyes and hackers (a psychologist's files - love letters - illegal stuff of some sort - a famous writer's novel-in-progress - the personal diary of a public figure - records of hidden assets - a tax preparer's copies of all the returns prepared for the public - bank and credit card statements....it just goes on and on).

 

If data is up for grabs once someone dies.....a lot of mayhem could be made from that.

 

Are there experts in extortion and blackmail that use hacked data as a source of coercion?

 

Surely all these things will be or already are, serious issues. The world is changing too fast.

 

nat whilk ii

 

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Agreed.

 

A question that interests me that I have yet to see in public discussion is the ownership status of data after death. So you have a few terrabtyes of data in the cloud under your name and you depart this vale of tears for good.

 

Can someone inherit your data stash?

 

What will the cloud storage people do with your data after you abandon it? Can they sell it to pay for continuing to store it, like landlords or storage unit outfits sometimes do?

 

That's what a will is for.

 

Anyway, various companies allow you to submit something that basically says, "Hey, my SO passed away, I would like access to his/her stuff." I don't know very much about this, but I know that many companies have this...unfortunately, as last year, I had a lot of friends pass away, and I saw or heard some discussion about this kind of thing from family members.

 

And this is if someone doesn't leave passwords to their loved ones already.

 

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That's what a will is for.

 

Anyway, various companies allow you to submit something that basically says, "Hey, my SO passed away, I would like access to his/her stuff." I don't know very much about this, but I know that many companies have this...unfortunately, as last year, I had a lot of friends pass away, and I saw or heard some discussion about this kind of thing from family members.

 

And this is if someone doesn't leave passwords to their loved ones already.

 

Sorry you've lost some friends. I've had a long stretch with no losses in close family and friends, but the wheel is turning I know only too well.

 

So an executor or other representative of the estate or family can get access - that's a good thing. Not quite the same as inheriting, but part of the process. Rather like getting access to bank accounts, safety deposit boxes and so on.

 

There still is an inheritance that occurs even when there's no will - state law dictates that stuff.

 

So someone goes through "the data" and keeps this, tosses that, just like what happens when you are the one who is responsible to clean out grandma's old house and figure out what to do with all the stuff. It's a big responsibility that can have huge repercussions sometimes.

 

I'm wondering I guess about the ambiguities of ownership when it comes to data. Say I upload 10,000 rare albums to Google Play so I can access them. I croak and leave them to my old pal and bandmate. Can I do that? Is something "owned", legally, in the transfer of all that musical data to some server? What about the 500 books I've downloaded to my Kindle, all purchased? What about my old email? Is that something I "own", legally? Both what I sent and what other people sent to me? The songs I posted to Soundcloud - can someone else inherit that data posted to that service? All these things seem to me to have value, but in strict legal terms, I don't know exactly what they are.

 

I'm thinking like a lawyer here, forgive me if possible. You live long enough and see enough trouble that gets sorted out (more or less) in our crazy legal system, you start thinking like a lawyer from time to time, hoping to avoid trouble.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

 

 

 

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Agreed.

 

A question that interests me that I have yet to see in public discussion is the ownership status of data after death. So you have a few terrabtyes of data in the cloud under your name and you depart this vale of tears for good.

 

Can someone inherit your data stash?

 

 

I suspect it's treated as part of your trust or estate. If you write a song, then the ownership of that song passes on to your heirs. I suspect "your data" is generally no different, unless it's encumbered by agreements that you signed while you were alive. For example, if you write a song as a "work for hire", the ownership of it doesn't belong to your kids just because you died and a copy of it is sitting on one of your backup HDDs or in the cloud somewhere.

 

 

What will the cloud storage people do with your data after you abandon it? Can they sell it to pay for continuing to store it, like landlords or storage unit outfits sometimes do?

 

 

Depends on the agreement you have with them. If the user agreement says they can delete it after X period of time goes by without payment from you, then that's the most likely scenario. I don't know of any such service that sells or accesses your data under any circumstances short of a court order.

 

 

"Data" is so non-specific. Some of it is probably self-created. Maybe most is simply copied from other sources. Some of it might be quite sensitive - data on 3rd parties, other data that you safeguarded from prying eyes and hackers (a psychologist's files - love letters - illegal stuff of some sort - a famous writer's novel-in-progress - the personal diary of a public figure - records of hidden assets - a tax preparer's copies of all the returns prepared for the public - bank and credit card statements....it just goes on and on).

 

If data is up for grabs once someone dies.....a lot of mayhem could be made from that.

 

Again, I think some of it is basic intellectual property - such as the book that's half-written. Your heirs own that unless you've sold it or otherwise assigned the rights to it while you were alive. A copy of one of Ken Lee's photos on your HDD doesn't belong to you or your heirs, even if it's on "your" HDD - Ken still owns that. The MP3 that someone emailed you and asked you to check out? Same thing - it's still their work, and they still own the copyright.

 

Sure, there might be embarrasing things or personal things on your drive, and after you're gone, people might see that... so you might want to ditch the diary and love letters if you don't want your kids or grandkids reading them someday. Then again, my wife has a big box of letters that her father sent to her mom while he was serving in Europe in WWII, and they're highly cherished by her.

 

 

Are there experts in extortion and blackmail that use hacked data as a source of coercion?

 

I read an article about that just the other day that discussed hackers who took over systems and threatened to delete all the data unless you pay up... and apparently the FBI is recommending you do exactly that in most cases. freak.giffrown.gif

 

Surely all these things will be or already are, serious issues. The world is changing too fast.

 

nat whilk ii

 

Indeed they are, and I agree that the laws don't always keep up with the technological changes.

 

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A Faraday cage/box. Most of us have one, microwave oven. Whether the solar or emp fries: I've been telling strangers about a Carrington type event for years, They look @ me kind of strange...Canada had an outage circa last 25 years because of the sun. Not if but when or so the scientists say..:idk:

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We received permission from Sound on Sound to reprint Paul White's editorial regarding his concerns about having no physical format for audio...check it out.

 

Thanks for sharing this.

 

I still burn hard copies of all my music so that I'm not completely reliant on digital files.

 

But I'm amazed at how, almost without conscious thought, I've moved from listening to music that I "own" to relying primarily on streaming services.

 

I'm still listening, for the most part, to music that I already have hard or soft copies of, but the streaming services operate through a device that I'm already carrying 24/7.

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