I got new monitors today.

[rasputin1963]

I received my new monitors today. They are ALESIS M1Active 520 USB 30W Nearfields (see link below). By no means the best you can buy-- in fact it's their cheapest set-- but they'll work in my small environment, I think. They only cost $153 US, but my slender budget can afford nothing better.

 

They're USB plug-in. I didn't even know you could buy monitors with a USB plugin. Each speaker is 10" tall, with a 5"woofer and a 3" tweeter. A drawback, perhaps, is that, while each speaker contains its own DAC, its process only goes up to 48kHz. That will just have to do me, I guess, even though I have been recording at 96kHz for the last year. Question for you whizkids: Will I get a better sound if I use my soundcard's 1/8" stereo OUTs... instead of the USB?

 

 

I've just plugged them in, and am giving them their first test-run. They're very LOUD, much louder than my former computer speakers, that's for sure. The specs say they go from 56Hz to 20Khz, yet I find they are very bassy and low-mids strong, and the highs aren't as crystalline as the much more costly JBL's I used to own. Or maybe I just have what our Zak calls "old guy ears", with a cattywampus Fletcher-Munsen. The overall sound is VERY warm, to me dark-ish, and ooey-gooey... pleasant enough, although, as I say, they don't seem to have a lot of sparkling, very-high frequencies.

 

Watching movies on NETFLIX, I find the audio to be very big and bold, almost too much so, frankly: Maybe when I was 20 I enjoyed hearing the TOP GUN jets come sailing deafeningly through my living room, but at age 52 it seems a bit overkill. The music soundtracks in modern movies also seem to be composed/mixed with a s***load of bass/low mids. Or is it just me? The volume difference between spoken dialogue... and then the rising swell of orchestral strings... seems dramatically huge to me. Are modern young'uns just fond of mega-bass in everything?

 

These monitors have a decided "sweet spot" as good monitors should. There's a switch in back designed to give "bass boost", but I don't think I'll need it as they already seem quite bassy.

 

For my everyday computer music projects, they should be more-than enough. Also: Is it true that new monitors need a "break-in" period?

[blue2blue]

It's not your imagination, the soundtrack thing. It's my sense that many mainstream entertainment movies have both music and 'spectacular' sound FX sequences up what I would consider ridiculously high -- to the point where you have to turn it down and then turn it back up again when the normal action and dialog reconvenes after the special FX aria/crescendo (because, you know, they always end with a bang).

 

I think it started in the 80s and really accelerated in the 90s. After that, I pretty much stopped watching. Most of that junk holds no interest to me.

 

I used to be interested in the CG FX but the techniques are now so commonplace that the only time you notice them is when things actually don't look all wanky and out of phase/focus/something.

 

I watched a recently made (or recently updated) doc on Ray Harryhausen's stop motion FX and they had a bunch of big time FX directors on and one of them mentioned how the best CG monster FX were still those from the original Jurassic Park -- because they took the time to get it all right. And not just the technical side -- but, particularly, the movements of the CG animals, which seemed so 'natural' -- and the footage from it did look really spectacular compared to some of the FX movie trailers I've seen in recent years. (And those are the trailers! The best bits. And they often look dorky and cheap.)

 

We're at the point now where CG is to Hollywood what Auto-Tune has been to Nashville.

[philboking]

My TV has a sort of dynamics control allowing me to set the maximum difference between quietest and loudest. I find it most listenable with this control at minimum.

I too detest what they're doing with movie sound. I avoid theatres, but the last time I went there were only 4 other people there. I guess I'm not the only one. ..

[nat whilk II]

I received my new monitors today. They are ALESIS M1Active 520 USB 30W Nearfields (see link below). By no means the best you can buy-- in fact it's their cheapest set-- but they'll work in my small environment, I think. They only cost $153 US, but my slender budget can afford nothing better.

 

They're USB plug-in. I didn't even know you could buy monitors with a USB plugin. Each speaker is 10" tall, with a 5"woofer and a 3" tweeter. A drawback, perhaps, is that, while each speaker contains its own DAC, its process only goes up to 48kHz. That will just have to do me, I guess, even though I have been recording at 96kHz for the last year. Question for you whizkids: Will I get a better sound if I use my soundcard's 1/8" stereo OUTs... instead of the USB?

 

These monitors have a decided "sweet spot" as good monitors should. There's a switch in back designed to give "bass boost", but I don't think I'll need it as they already seem quite bassy.

 

For my everyday computer music projects, they should be more-than enough. Also: Is it true that new monitors need a "break-in" period?

 

There should be an Acoustic Space switch on the back - a setting for flush to the wall, in the corner, in the open, etc. I suggest try the "flush to the wall" setting first (the weakest bass) and see if you get used it. Small ported nearfields have issues with bass - the ports "extend" the bass response in terms of how low it can go, but the "extended" bass can get muddy and sometimes subject to resonant peaks. If the bass is loud, but sometimes it's hard to hear exactly what note is being played...that's a typical kind of bass problem for your type of monitor. It's hard to get a mix that translates to other systems when you have those problems. Mixing with less bass helps, then play your mix through a variety of playback systems to help get a feel for what's going on in the bass. Then switch to big bass for the movies

 

We use Mackie monitors for our TV/Movie audio, similar to your Alesis units - I bought some small, stick-on absorbing feet for the monitors to sit on. Otherwise, all the bass coming out of those little boxes is vibrating not only the monitor, but whatever it's sitting on and around. The sound absorbing feet made a big difference in clarity, especially in the bass. There are other products - Auralex sells pads for monitors, same basic idea. Not as good a solution as real monitor stands that totally stabilize the monitors - but effective to an extent, nonetheless.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

 

[Mats Nermark]

I used to be interested in the CG FX but the techniques are now so commonplace that the only time you notice them is when things actually don't look all wanky and out of phase/focus/something.

 

We're at the point now where CG is to Hollywood what Auto-Tune has been to Nashville.

 

Just to help a Swede who's not a native English speaker. Does CG mean Computer Graphics?

 

Cheers,

 

Mats N

[rasputin1963]

 

Just to help a Swede who's not a native English speaker. Does CG mean Computer Graphics?

 

Cheers,

 

Mats N

 

Det är verkligen vad det innebär, min fjord vän!

[Etienne Rambert]

I own M1 powered monitors - except no USB. Pro: They are sturdy & well-built. Soundwise, I think they resemble my Sennheiser HD 280 headphones. that's convenient for the purposes of comparison. Con: I don't really like how the M1's or the 280's sound. But together, they are usable for recording..

 

So they're keepers. I think they will wear you out using them for movies.

They'll do fine on your projects though. I don't know about 'breaking in' monitors,

[WRGKMC]

I cant figure out what the heck the providers are doing. I've had Comcast, AT&T and now Direct TV and the volume levels are all over the darn place. I turn the volume up to hear what people are saying then some action scene kicks in and my speakers are blowing chunks confetti because the sound is so loud. It may also dim down in volume for no apparent reason. If it was a volume compressor issue some place in their chain, you'd hear its swell come back up when the audio is quiet. That doesn't seem to happen. I can tell you its annoying as hell.

 

I'm thinking I might try adding a compressor/limiter to the line outs on the receiver. I have a bunch of extra rack compressors I can try. I'll just have to give it a shot and see what happens.

 

As far as USB goes, If you have a good interface I'd use that for a couple of reasons.

 

One the latency may be lower.

Two higher sample rates may be possible.

Three, you don't have to run different drivers for inputs and outputs within the DAW program.

 

I haven't tried it, but you may have issues multitracking using one driver for ins and another for outs.

I know you cant run two different sets of drivers for tracking. I don't think I've ever tried two different devices for playback and recording at the same time.

 

If all you do is mix you'd be OK at the lower sample rate, but I'd want the flexibility of going higher when needed. I usually track at 24/48 but sometimes mix down to 24/88.1 for mastering.

[Beck]

 

They're USB plug-in. I didn't even know you could buy monitors with a USB plugin. Each speaker is 10" tall, with a 5"woofer and a 3" tweeter. A drawback, perhaps, is that, while each speaker contains its own DAC, its process only goes up to 48kHz. That will just have to do me, I guess, even though I have been recording at 96kHz for the last year. Question for you whizkids: Will I get a better sound if I use my soundcard's 1/8" stereo OUTs... instead of the USB?

 

It's worth a try. It depends on the soundcard of course. Generally speaking I'm still not a fan of USB for audio. no matter what USB spec, 1.1, 2.0 or 3.0. But I'm in the vast minority. IMO Even if a USB device has technically "Better" converters than a PCI soundcard the problem is in the nature of USB. So one could build the best device with the best converters and the best of everything worth thousands of dollars and to me all that would be a waste because it has to go through USB. I'll never use a USB mic or plug a guitar in that way. But it's just one mans opinion. You'll get equally qualified and more qualified than I saying USB is fine. But, what have you got to lose? Fashion or buy a cable so you can plug into the 1/8" output jack of your soundcard and into the analog stereo inputs for you new speakers. Give it listen and see if it makes a difference.

 

 

[UstadKhanAli]

Having never used USB for audio, why do you feel they're not so great?

[Anderton]

I watched a recently made (or recently updated) doc on Ray Harryhausen's stop motion FX and they had a bunch of big time FX directors on and one of them mentioned how the best CG monster FX were still those from the original Jurassic Park -- because they took the time to get it all right. And not just the technical side -- but, particularly, the movements of the CG animals, which seemed so 'natural' -- and the footage from it did look really spectacular compared to some of the FX movie trailers I've seen in recent years. (And those are the trailers! The best bits. And they often look dorky and cheap.)

 

I saw Jurassic World (not worth the time or money, but the buzz made me do it), and have to say I thought I was the only one who felt the dinosaurs in Jurassic World were far less realistic and interesting than the ones in Jurassic Park. Glad to hear others agree.

 

Spoiler alert - here's the plot for Jurassic World:

 

Dinosaurs escape from captivity, and want to kill things.

 

 

[Anderton]

Having never used USB for audio, why do you feel they're not so great?

 

I think the power supply can influence the sound. As one example, a dirty motherboard supply line allowed an audio interface with inadequate filtering to pick up clicks and spikes from a hard drive, which was connected to the same USB controller. I simply installed a PCI card with USB ports, and the problem went away. As to cables, I found the following on the web and agree:

 

If coax cable is used to transmit a digital signal it wont effect the audio/video quality. The only artifact you will get is what's called "macroblocking" which happens when the medium's bandwidth is degraded to a point where the decoder cannot understand what the 1s and 0s are. The end result you experience with video is what looks like chopped up and scrambled blocks of colors instead of the video, with audio it's even more noticeable - your DAC chokes on the missing data and you'll hear very noticeably loud chirps and gaps in your music. You've probably heard this to a much smaller degree if you've ever bumped an older model CDROM while it's ripping an audio disc. In newer DACs and ripping apps this problem is totally negated with signal buffers, if the DAC or ripping program notices a missing piece of data it fills in the gap with buffered data.

 

Ultimately what most people think of as USB sounding "bad" has more to do with the converters used to translate the digital into analog, or vice-versa. For example USB mics have a bad rep because they're usually designed to a price point for portable gear or whatever, so the A/D converters are sketchy. But USB mics can be excellent if you use excellent converters. I found this out with the Beecaster, which costs $349 but uses really good converters and mic elements...I wouldn't hesitate to use it in the studio.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Yes.

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

Spoiler alert - here's the plot for Jurassic World:

 

Dinosaurs escape from captivity, and want to kill things.

 

 

 

Wow - there's a surprise!

[Beck]

Having never used USB for audio, why do you feel they're not so great?

 

Oh I'm very familiar with USB devices, trying many products that I decided I wouldn't keep or listening to what friends have and deciding that's not going to work for me. There's no denying USB is everywhere, so can't get away from it I could have clarified that better by saying I'll never use USB again for certain applications because I've tried and did not care for it. That goes for anything else I like or don't like. I've made a decision based on experience at some point.

[Beck]

 

I simply installed a PCI card with USB ports, and the problem went away.

 

 

I've done that as well with one of my fav older motherboards to keep it up to speed with the latest USB spec. No hum, noise or any other interference using a USB PCI card.

 

The price point can also be part of it as far as performance goes. USB mics and such started out kind of toy-like, so I think for a lot of people the products were originally targeted for, the expectations aren't that high. I just feel I can get better results using a PCI based soundcard or a real mic into a mixer, guitar into a mixer, etc.

 

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Oh I'm very familiar with USB devices, trying many products that I decided I wouldn't keep or listening to what friends have and deciding that's not going to work for me. There's no denying USB is everywhere, so can't get away from it I could have clarified that better by saying I'll never use USB again for certain applications because I've tried and did not care for it. That goes for anything else I like or don't like. I've made a decision based on experience at some point.

 

I got that, but I was wondering why you don't use USB for audio applications as discussed above. Is it similar to the reasons that Craig mentioned? Just curious.

[Beck]

 

I got that, but I was wondering why you don't use USB for audio applications as discussed above. Is it similar to the reasons that Craig mentioned? Just curious.

 

Yes, some of what Craig mentioned I've experienced as well, but I have a problem with the fundamental design of USB. If it were the only choice I had would I use it? Probably, but since I still prefer recording much the same way I've done for the last 15 years (as far as the digital technology goes) for me to replace what I have with anything USB would be fixing something that ain't broke. I'm still an analog guy at my core, but I'm very happy with my PCI based digital audio interfaces. And all signals arrive there via analog through a mixing console, usually hitting analog tape first. So there are a number of considerations for me. I've yet to test drive a USB interface that I like as well as my old Echo Layla 24/96 interfaces. I've yet to hear anything at any price I like better, USB or not. In addition to the subjective sound issues, using USB would be an inconvenience for me

[UstadKhanAli]

Thanks.

 

For my computer rig, I'm still using an Apogee Rosetta 800, with a Presonus Firestudio acting as the "thalamus", connecting to the computer via Firewire. But all the conversion is done with the Apogee, and then it goes into a firewire card that is separate from the motherboard. Seems to work alright. I know what it is. I still love analog, but haven't recorded analog on a regular basis in almost ten years now. I've really had to change how I approach some of my recording to get more of the sound I used to when I was recording to tape.

 

Circling back to monitors, I use the outputs of the Apogee, and go through the Mackie Big Knob, which I think is the weak link in my monitoring chain...but anyway, I have these Yorkville YSM-1 passive monitors that I still use, and ADAM A7s, which are pretty good monitors as well. But I still listen to my mixes in the car and with headphones. I could probably do without it, but I'm so used to doing that. Besides, it's a good way of making certain that what I'm doing is really translating. When I can listen and enjoy a mix without being critical in my car as well as through my monitors, then I know I'm done. Or at least time to abandon the mix.

[Anderton]

These days, with so many people listening on headphones, I switch the mix among multiple headphones. If there's enough treble with Beats, enough bass with AKG, a relatively even albeit dull response with A-T's ATH-M50, and a relatively even but slightly crispy response with the KRKs, I know I'm good to on phones. As to speakers, Gibson's Les Paul Monitors never really took off but if I mix on the 6" models and the sound is exactly as I want it, for whatever reason I don't have to worry about translation over other speakers...it just sounds a little bit "off" in one way or another, depending on the speakers.

[WRGKMC]

My wife is testing a new high end laptop at work which is likely to be released next year. They do internal testing to find faults under real operating conditions. The cool part is the employee is given the unit to keep the unit in trade for the time they spend testing it. Pretty cool.

 

Since the model isn't released yet I cant go into model details but I could easily see the unit costing a couple of grand. I did try it out. Its got 1 SS drive with space for 2 more. It boots up in about 10 seconds. Its 64 bit with 16G memory with two additional open slots running a 64 bit system. The screen is very wide maybe 17"?

 

Its also got Thunderbolt which blows the doors off USB. The units made to order for recording so I may try and find a low cost thunderbolt interface and give it a shot. I'm not a fan of laptop recording because most have single drives that get filled too quickly. I'd also have to take a look and see if external drives will work at the same time the interface does.

 

The only thing I don't like is Win 10, but at least that's much better then win 8 which is a major PITA to navigate.

[blue2blue]

 

Just to help a Swede who's not a native English speaker. Does CG mean Computer Graphics?

 

Cheers,

 

Mats N

 

Indeed, it does. Shortened, I guess, from CGI (computer generated imagery) these days in the industry. But, of course, these days, computers are used for just about everything from green screen processing to split screen matting -- which is now so trivially easy it's often used to mask gear like mic booms and such. (For instance, you can shoot background without actors or gear like multiple cameras, move that in, and then mask out the gear as needed -- and that can allow you to shoot simultaneously from multiple angles and mask out the cams and crew in shots where they might show.)

[blue2blue]

[...] Also: Is it true that new monitors need a "break-in" period?

Like any machine, the moving parts change with use, flexible parts tend to be a bit stiffer, and so on -- but it's my notion that the general thinking is that it's probably not a significant factor in ongoing performance -- although, of course, it's always possible to abuse speakers -- and one might speculate that unused, 'stiff' gear might be easier to damage to some (perhaps infinitesimal) degree. That said, I've heard elaborate analogies to car cylinders (not without certain parallels, of course) and break-in... Let's put it this way, if I spent my life savings on some Megaohmygod 1500's, after the set-up guys in the clean-room coats left in their sterile van, I probably wouldn't put Blue Cheer's "Summertime Blues" on at the top of my cheap transistor amp's peak output.

 

No matter how much I wanted to.

 

 

[Anderton]

Its also got Thunderbolt which blows the doors off USB. The units made to order for recording so I may try and find a low cost thunderbolt interface and give it a shot.

 

Check out my review of the Focusrite Clarett8 Thunderbolt interface, I think you'll find it interesting. This is the crucial line in the review:

 

"If you have near-field monitors the usual 3-4 feet from your head, then wearing headphones can give less latency than if the Clarett8 PreX had absolutely no latency, and you were listening over speakers. Let that sink in for a bit."

 

 

[Anderton]

Like any machine, the moving parts change with use, flexible parts tend to be a bit stiffer, and so on -- but it's my notion that the general thinking is that it's probably not a significant factor in ongoing performance -- although, of course, it's always possible to abuse speakers -- and one might speculate that unused, 'stiff' gear might be easier to damage to some (perhaps infinitesimal) degree.

 

I've definitely noticed that some speakers and headphones sound better after they've been used for a few hours. Unlike a car I don't think it's so much about stressing it lightly at first so valves seat properly or whatever, just more about making sure the stiff elements loosen up a little bit and become more responsive to audio.