Members davd_indigo Posted October 11, 2015 Members Share Posted October 11, 2015 I caught this the other night on NPR. Comic duo Mitzi McCall and Charlie Brill had the misfortune to play in front of an audience of teenage girls who were there to see the Beatles.Seems like it was a classic case of being in the right place at the wrong time. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/281/my-big-break?act=1#play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 12, 2015 Members Share Posted October 12, 2015 All these years later and I`m still trying to figure out the lure of The Beatles as well…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bookumdano4 Posted October 12, 2015 Members Share Posted October 12, 2015 Seems like it was a classic case of being in the right place at the wrong time. Yeah, they would've fared better a year earlier when maybe the Kingston Trio were the main music act. Other than that Beatle appearance catapulting my own successful career, I loved watching Ed that particular night and like many.... knew after my own previous seven years around music that this was to change "everything"..... and have totally forgotten who the other acts were. In fact during that night, I believe my parents turned the sound completely down on the tv while we all discussed what we were seeing and what it could mean for me. I agree with the commentator's comment that anyone/everyone on that Ed Sullivan episode were basically representative of "all that was about to be doomed and left behind in the world of show biz,". Including Mitzi and Charlie... who comment that they didn't see it coming and had no clue the Beatles were going to change the world.... even as Mitzi and Charley stood there hearing the Beatle sets and trying to understand their terrific bomb. Personally, I particularly liked that the Beatle appearance on Sullivan doomed all the future plates-in-the-air-on-sticks twirlers. And topo gigio. Hey...Mitzi and Charlie may have been better remembered if they had appeared on this episode below ..... or maybe not...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sounds like it was a case of bad communication compounding a bad booking decision on the part of someone at the show. Normally appearing on Sullivan would have been a great career opportunity, but if you were unfortunate enough to be on when someone like Elvis or the Beatles were, you were going to be upstaged. Good opportunity, bad timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davd_indigo Posted October 12, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2015 I know I'm stepping in a dog pile here....Ernest, have you listened to the what I'll call the nooks and crannys of the Beatles? We all hear the same stuff in the mall, elevators, walking down the street. But have you sat and just listened to something like "Dear Prudence" ? I've said through the years that no one can dislike Beethoven if they really take a good listen to him. I'm not saying the Fab4 are Luddie (Beethoven), but all their vocal harmonies are blazing hot. Paul's invention on bass is everywhere. John's craziness along with Paul's craftsmanship (my guess) come up with things like "Hapiness Is A Warm Gun". I listened to "Taxman" today and heard a detail on Paul's bass part at 55 secs into the song. I'd never noticed it before. I can't quite tell what he's playing there. But to me it's inventive as hell. Just my two cents. I know this is a worn out topic. But people often say they don't like blah blah. But the devil's in the details. I think the details I mentioned are just tidbits of the brilliance. Like I said, I stepped in a dog pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 13, 2015 Members Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yeah, they would've fared better a year earlier when maybe the Kingston Trio were the main music act. Other than that Beatle appearance catapulting my own successful career, I loved watching Ed that particular night and like many.... knew after my own previous seven years around music that this was to change "everything"..... and have totally forgotten who the other acts were. In fact during that night, I believe my parents turned the sound completely down on the tv while we all discussed what we were seeing and what it could mean for me. I`m really curious, what did you guys talk about? I agree with the commentator's comment that anyone/everyone on that Ed Sullivan episode were basically representative of "all that was about to be doomed and left behind in the world of show biz,". Could you elaborate on this? I was born in `73 so I missed all of this and I`m really trying to understand. Thanks, E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 13, 2015 Members Share Posted October 13, 2015 I know I'm stepping in a dog pile here....Ernest, have you listened to the what I'll call the nooks and crannys of the Beatles? We all hear the same stuff in the mall, elevators, walking down the street. But have you sat and just listened to something like "Dear Prudence" ? I've said through the years that no one can dislike Beethoven if they really take a good listen to him. I'm not saying the Fab4 are Luddie (Beethoven), but all their vocal harmonies are blazing hot. Paul's invention on bass is everywhere. John's craziness along with Paul's craftsmanship (my guess) come up with things like "Hapiness Is A Warm Gun". I listened to "Taxman" today and heard a detail on Paul's bass part at 55 secs into the song. I'd never noticed it before. I can't quite tell what he's playing there. But to me it's inventive as hell. Bear with me…. I think its important to know where people are coming from to try to comprehend their opinions… so I`ll give a brief history of my life before I started to listen to the Beatles… I also know I`ve insulted some people over the years talking about The Beatles but I`m really just trying to understand them better. I don`t get all the hoopla. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I was born in `73 so I missed the craze and I have no idea how the world was before The Beatles. I think that plays a huge part in all this... To answer your question, I owned all The Beatles albums (before Super Storm Sandy wiped me out). I read most of the books written about them as well. I grew up listening to opera, classical music, jazz, and my parents were into the "light listening" in the late 70s - early 80s that I often fell asleep to… Billy Joel, Elton John, Air Supply, Ann Murray, Johnny Mathis, etc… I enjoyed some of that and I also heard The Beatles more popular tunes in there as well but their songs didn`t stick out to me as anything special. What was blowing my mind in my early 20s before I started to listen to The Beatles was Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Bach, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman. In my early 20s, my mother was working at the local YMCA which offered free memberships to all family which I took advantage of. It was then I started to take up Yoga, which I started to practice daily… got into the chant, the meditating, etc… reading all the Eastern mystics… etc… so when I finally started to listen to the Beatles during that time, the eastern influence on George wasn`t revolutionary to me… it was a sound I was used to hearing already. It was interesting but it didn`t blow my mind like the guys I mentioned above. At that time, I was also in a band with 3 other guys who would waste rehearsal time conversing about The Beatles… I really didn`t understand what they were drooling about so I spent time listening and analyzing the music. The drummer, bassist, and I all attended the Aaron Copland School of Music here in NYC and we were all pretty much on the same level as musicians, we all attended the same classes together from history, to theory, to Schenkerian Analysis, etc… so I don`t think there was anything lost in translation amongst us. I just didn`t have the same experience as they did when listening to the music. And just in case you`re wondering, we were all in our early 20s. After spending all that time listening and analyzing the music, I came away even more confused. I found that any Beatles material prior to Rubber Soul bored me. I know thats going to piss people off but thats just my opinion. Yes, there were some good tunes in there but for the most part, I found them very childish. Rubber Soul really intrigued me and to this day, I still enjoy it, same with Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour (my favorite), but The White Album… argh… again, I know this is going to really tick some people off but half of that record should have been trashed. I don`t find half of that noise interesting in the least bit. Yellow Submarine…. another album with a bunch of nonsense… I know I know… I missing the genius… I just don`t get it. I hope I don`t come across as arrogant or as an elitist but I simply do not put The Beatles on the genius level as I do with Ellington, Coltrane, Mozart, Beethoven, etc… even amongst rock groups… I think Rush was much more creative in their peak than The Beatles. Again, I know this irks the hell out of people but I find Rush much more interesting from a musical standpoint and as far as pure musicianship, I`m not sure Rush can be touched. And even lyrically, I find myself much more interested and fascinated with Rush than the Fab 4 and yes, the Beatles have some great lyrics but I`m looking at the overall picture here! Just my two cents. I know this is a worn out topic. But people often say they don't like blah blah. But the devil's in the details. I think the details I mentioned are just tidbits of the brilliance. Like I said, I stepped in a dog pile. Just my $.02 as well. I hope no one was harmed or disrespected reading this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 14, 2015 Members Share Posted October 14, 2015 I also know I`ve insulted some people over the years talking about The Beatles but I`m really just trying to understand them better. I don`t get all the hoopla. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I was born in `73 so I missed the craze and I have no idea how the world was before The Beatles. I think that plays a huge part in all this... 100% accurate. '73 was a decade after the Beatles hit (they were big in the UK in '62, and "I Want to Hold Your Hand" hit the US in early '64, so we'll split the difference). By the time you became aware of music, it was even later. In 1963, nothing was like the Beatles. If you listen to the music of that era, aside from some of the Brill Building songwriting gems, music had become pretty stale. Then Kennedy was killed and Camelot ended, with RFK, Martin Luther King, and Malcom X soon to follow. The Beatles were a breath of iconoclastic, positive energy at a time when it was needed. But, there's more to it than that. The Beatles had a huge influence on music. I don't think there would have been a Rush, for example, if there hadn't been the Beatles. People took the torch the Beatles passed on and raised the bar further. By the time you were aware of music, the Beatles had already influenced many of the musicians you heard. So how could the Beatles possibly have the same impact on you compared to when they were fresh and new? It's not that different with Jimi Hendrix. His first album might as well have been beamed to us from an alien civilization. Within months, imitators and those who were inspired by him abounded. I've often said if Hendrix released his first album today, he would still be hailed as innovative...although a lot of people would say "Well I don't know, he sure rips off Mahogany Rush a lot..." One's feelings about music have a great deal to do with context and memory. The music that was playing when you had your first kiss with that hottie from high school may not have been the greatest music in the world, but I bet you can't help but be affected by it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davd_indigo Posted October 14, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 14, 2015 As I type this I'm sitting on my sofa with Rush playing. "Moving Pictures". My first thought was that they have no vocal harmony. Not that it's necessary. But for me it's a whole dimension of possibilities. As I understand it (from hearsay) Rush have to do double and triple duty on various 2nd and 3rd instruments. I see them and the Beatles as maybe comparing apples and orange bananas. When I've thought about what makes the B's so special for me, the one common element is their arrangements. They never leave things to the obvious in their arrangements. And the vocal harmony arrangements are a huge factor in the overall arrangements. And they have a large range in style. They make me think of an actor like Bette Davis and her wide ranging roles..Rush (as I'm listening) reminds me of Yes. And The Mahavishnu Orchestra came to mind also. Craig's comments about the Beatles laying the ground for the progressive guys got me to thinking. Then I ran into the following I copied from Amazon(down below). I was looking at ordering "Sgt. Pepper" on CD in mono. I read someone say they thought the mono mix sounded better and I'm curious. And Rush is big time into synths. BTW, one of the things I like about listening to Otis Redding is the horn arrangements. And of course the rhythm guys. But I read that Otis would come up with horn parts and teach them to the guys by singing them. From an Amazon review of "Sgt Pepper": "What made this album influential? Partially it was underlying theme of the album. The album is not a concept album as such, but it began life as a concept album, and enough of the concept remained that the theme running through the album influenced other rockers to make unified concept albums. Another reason the album is influential is the experimentation the Beatles did. The transitions between songs, the sound effects, the unusual instruments and the speed variations between songs foreshadowed the coming of progressive rock." And this is one of my favorite Otis tunes. Especially like the horn arrangement... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfhG9IEMpI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.