My audio hardware future plans (Tascam)

[davd_indigo]

 

 

 

I'm about to retire and am going to be spending a lot of time working on music. Just because I can.

I currently have an Olympus LS-100 and a Tascam DP-008EX. I also have an AKG 414ULS and a Shure

SM81. I'm thinking of buying a second AKG 414 in the near future and figure on a 3rd one later on.

There are used one's on Amazon for about $650. I'm also probably going to purchase a Yamaha CLP-585

- a digital piano that's supposed to sound and feel pretty close to real (but always in tune).

 

In the near term, I'm hoping to have only one or two musicians in my living room at a time to play

with me. So I'm thinking in terms of recording "live in the living room (studio)". I was looking

around at one of the Tascam multi-tracks - the DP24SD. But then I noticed the Tascam DSR-680. It's

an 8 track with 6 XLR inputs. At about $430 this seems to fit a niche in my musical life right now.

Later, if I've acquired one or two collaborators, requiring muti-tracking/multi-miking and outgrowing

the little Tascam DP-008EX (a wonderful little recorder BTW), I figure I could add the 24 track

Tascam DP24SD.

 

The DSR-680 seems to be promoted for film makers. Is there any reason not to use it for "live in the

living room"? Are there other options I should be looking at ? BTW, I have no plans to use loops or virtual instruments.

 

 

[synthetic]

The main difference between the the DR-680 and the DP-24SD is that one is a true multitrack and the other is multi-channel. What I mean by this: The DP-24SD can record 8 channels, and then you can overdub more channels on top of that. Or you can record four tracks, then add 4 more later.

 

On the DR-680, you can record up to eight tracks at once but that's it. You can't record four tracks, then rewind and punch in a fifth. So the DR-680 is a nice solution for multi-channel field recording, live concert recording, or "live in-studio" recording where you won't be adding more tracks later on. If you want to build up a production bit-by-bit, I would look at the DP-24SD or one of our USB interfaces.

 

- Jeff @ TASCAM

[Anderton]

Thanks for stopping by, Jeff. That's very helpful info.

[davd_indigo]

The main difference between the the DR-680 and the DP-24SD is that one is a true multitrack and the other is multi-channel. What I mean by this: The DP-24SD can record 8 channels, and then you can overdub more channels on top of that. Or you can record four tracks, then add 4 more later.

 

On the DR-680, you can record up to eight tracks at once but that's it. You can't record four tracks, then rewind and punch in a fifth. So the DR-680 is a nice solution for multi-channel field recording, live concert recording, or "live in-studio" recording where you won't be adding more tracks later on. If you want to build up a production bit-by-bit, I would look at the DP-24SD or one of our USB interfaces.

 

- Jeff @ TASCAM

 

Thanks Jeff. I was thinking of the "live in-studio" application, thinking this might be good for quick and easy startup time. Seems like it's easy to copy the files to a computer for mixing/mastering. I suspect most of the people using these are doing video and film. Seems like it would be nice for live in home recording with multiple mics. I gather there are few people doing this.

 

BTW, Jeff, if you're still around it occurred to me to ask if you can comment on the differences between the DR-680 and the DR-680 MKii ? I read something about 150% better battery life. That's big. And something about the MKii having better preamps. Can you comment please ?

 

Oh, and while I have your attention (maybe?) I think there is a missing link between the DP-008EX and the DP-24SD. Maybe 4 or 6 XLR inputs and 12 or 16 tracks. I'm sure Tascam has considered these. Just seem like a logical step up from a DP-008EX.

 

Again, thanks.

[MikeRivers]

 

I was thinking of the "live in-studio" application, thinking this might be good for quick and easy startup time. Seems like it's easy to copy the files to a computer for mixing/mastering. I suspect most of the people using these are doing video and film. Seems like it would be nice for live in home recording with multiple mics. I gather there are few people doing this.

 

I had a DR-680 around for a while. Quality was good, it wasn't too difficult to set up and operate, and copying WAV files from the recorder to a computer is no problem. The files are completely compatible with any DAW software you're likely to use. If you need more than six mics, remember that there are only 4 XLR connectors. Inputs 5-6 are on 1/4" phone jacks. They'll provide phantom power if you need it, but you'll need adapters to use standard mic cables. Tracks 7-8 are digital inputs (you'll need preamps with an A/D converter, or they can record a mix (from the DR-680's built-in mixer).

 

It would work fine for recording a live performance, but the thing is that when you get people into a studio environment, there's always somebody who will want to do things like they do in studios. The singer will ask if he can re-do a verse, the bass player will want to fix a note. Of course you can do those things once you dump the files into a DAW, but if you're going to do that, you might as well start recording with the DAW. The DR-680 is a fine field recorder (the one that's designed more for video is the HS-P82) that you can use in the studio. But it isn't a really flexible studio recorder.

 

The DR-680 Mk II web page http://tascam.com/product/dr-680mkii/ has a list of changes with the Mk II. You're correct about the increased battery life and some improvements in audio quality, both with the mic preamps and with the internal clock. It also inherited some features from the newest handheld models like the dual recording mode that simultaneously records a backup file at a lower level in case of a sudden increase in the loudness of the source you're recording - really handy for field work sometimes. Oh, and don't forget the red bumpers on the front.

 

There are a lot of approaches for recording, but until you've really established a style and a comaptible clientele, I think you might be better off with a more flexible system like a big Portastudio or just bite the bullet and go with a DAW from start to finish. There are plenty of good multi-channel computer audio interfaces available, and that's an easy part of your system to change out if you find that you need more inputs, or want better audio quality than you initially bought.

 

[davd_indigo]

 

 

It would work fine for recording a live performance, but the thing is that when you get people into a studio environment, there's always somebody who will want to do things like they do in studios. The singer will ask if he can re-do a verse, the bass player will want to fix a note. Of course you can do those things once you dump the files into a DAW, but if you're going to do that, you might as well start recording with the DAW. The DR-680 is a fine field recorder (the one that's designed more for video is the HS-P82) that you can use in the studio. But it isn't a really flexible studio recorder.

 

 

There are a lot of approaches for recording, but until you've really established a style and a comaptible clientele, I think you might be better off with a more flexible system like a big Portastudio or just bite the bullet and go with a DAW from start to finish. There are plenty of good multi-channel computer audio interfaces available, and that's an easy part of your system to change out if you find that you need more inputs, or want better audio quality than you initially bought.

 

Thanks for your input and advice Mike. Currently "live" in my living room is 1 or 2 musicians playing through tunes. Sometime jazz standards. Sometimes other things. I was thinking the DR-680 MKii would be a good "tool" for this application. Later, if I've connected with one or two (what I'll call) collaborators with multi-takes and multi-tracks being used, the DP24SD seems like an ideal tool for that. I plan to be reaching out to try and meet a couple of good versatile musicians. I'm actually hoping to find a couple of strong lead singers who can also sing harmony parts and who can play percussion. A 3 piece with 3 part harmony, digital piano and 2 percussion. If I can get these pieces in place, the DP24SD would be a great tool for that. My hope is to have a trio that focuses on classics (but not only rock classics) that focuses on 3 part harmony. Then 24 tracks with virtual tracks, comping together multiple takes and so on would make sense. But for recording myself playing piano only, or a couple of other musicans "live" for example, the DR680 MKii seems to me an ideal solution.

 

At $500 for the DR-680 MKii and $400 for the DP24SD, owning both, eventually, seems to make sense. If there's a hole in this logic, I'm happy to hear it.

[MikeRivers]

One flaw that I see is that you'll have to learn how to use two different pieces of gear. User interface is very important to me (Jeff knows that) and learning your way around two different devices, even if they come from the same company, can get confusing.

 

If part of your plan was to go out to clubs, or record groups in places other than your living room, I'd heartily recommend the DR-680 MkII, but there isn't anything the DP24 won't do that the DR-680 will (other than be as easy to cary around).

 

One thing to consider is that, while I haven't personally checked out either of those units, I'll bet that the audio quality is better with the DR-680. But I don't know how much better, how much that means to you, and whether your mics and recording envoronment are good enough to be able to take advantage of the difference.

 

Another difference (and a big one, for me) comes into play if you have mixing to do. The DP24 looks and feels like a mixer. The DR-680 has a dinky little LCD-based mixer that's fine for hearing what you're recording, but, although you can, it's not really meant to be the mixer on which you're doing your final mix of a studio project. I suppose you could import the DR-680 files into the DP24 and mix them there (if you had both), but I think you were thinking of importing them to a computer and mixing with a DAW program. But in order to justify the good quality going in, you'd need a pretty good interface going out to your monitors so you can really hear what you're mixing.

 

I'm not trying to talk you into one or the other (or both), just pointing out some things that may, or should, be important to you in deciding how you're going to work.

[davd_indigo]

Just dawned on me that what I'm wanting is a higher grade "sketchbook" than my Olympus LS100. I was thinking of the 680MKii as that. And I've been seeing the DP24SD as a composition book. Guess I will (duh!) watch some youtube demos and tutorials and see. Maybe the DP24SD has a quick record mode. I've just shied away from it as a sketchbook because of how the DP008EX works. It's a bit tedious creating and naming a song and so on. I'm thinking of sketchbook mode. But just assumed the 680MKii would do that. But you taking about having to learn to systems, made me wonder about the 680MKii.

 

So I'll watch a bunch of youtubes over the next days and learn something about working them.

[MikeRivers]

Just dawned on me that what I'm wanting is a higher grade "sketchbook" than my Olympus LS100. I was thinking of the 680MKii as that. And I've been seeing the DP24SD as a composition book.

 

Maybe the DP24SD has a quick record mode. I've just shied away from it as a sketchbook because of how the DP008EX works. It's a bit tedious creating and naming a song and so on.

 

I don't know if anybody really gets this right. A friend of mine had a horrid time with a Zoom 8-track (ended up returning it and going the DAW route). I think they just cut so many corners with these things, replacing buttons with menus to reduce the price, Although the TASCAM DR-44WL isn't specifically marketed as a 4-track workstation, it has that capability. I counted 17 steps to get from power-on to recording the first track of a 4-track song, and that's with taking the default name for the song and not renaming it before getting started, and not fiddling with the WAV file format. Life shouldn't be that complicated.

 

I was going to suggest that you take a look at what Roland has to offer in this line. They had a lot of multitrack workstations, but when I looked at the web site, all I could find was discontinued models, so maybe they've gone out of that business. Boss still has a couple, but nothing to compare to the TASCAM DP24SD. Akai had a few multitrack workstations that were pretty well regarded, but they seem to be gone, too. It looks like the market is really collapsing for these things, and no wonder, if they're really harder to use than a computer. They need to be easier to use than a computer in order to maintain a place in the market. Maybe TASCAM has done it with the DP24SD. Hopefully you'll get some insight if you find the right videos. .

 

If you already have a mixer, or could get into the idea of buying one, the Cymatic LR-16 is a plug-and-play recording interface that will record directly to a USB drive, even a thumb drive. Like the TASCAM DR-680, it doesn't make a studio recorder. It's designed for capturing a live show - one button starts recording on all tracks (you can select whether it's a 2, 4, 8, or 16-track recorder) and it costs about $400. After you've captured the performance, you can just plug the USB drive into a computer, open up a DAW program, drag the files into tracks, and go to work mixing, editing, or overdubbing. It even serves as a 16-input, 2-output computer audio interface so it'll give you better quality stereo playback from your DAW than a run-of-the-mill computer sound card, plus you can use it for recording up to 16 tracks directly into the computer.