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So...Ditch the Hardware, or Not? Or Are We Doomed?


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I have a lot of keyboards that are getting, shall we say, long in the tooth. They've lasted this long...some for a quarter century...and although they're working fine, they won't last forever. Some parts simply aren't made any more, so if they fail, it's a big problem.

 

I also have a bunch of virtual instruments that replace a lot of the hardware. So now I have a chance to downsize, get rid of some of the 'boards, and simplify my life.

 

But...

 

How long will those virtual instruments last? It depends. I doubt they'll last as long as the physical keyboards will, as they're subject to the whims of Apple and Microsoft. I sort of see the keyboards the way you see people driving around in restored classic cars. You can do it, but it becomes very time-consuming to try to chase down a steering box for a 1957 Ford.

 

We have pianos from the 1800s that still work fine, and guitars that are more than half a century old that don't need much more than new strings. Classical instruments from centuries ago are still playable, but it looks like the legacy of today's electronics will be...recordings of them, and not much else.

 

I suppose if there was enough demand today's electronic keyboards can be emulated as long as there are programmers and computers, but that's making a lot of assumptions.

 

Or maybe music should be ephemeral. We use the tools that are available, we make music, we move on.

 

Should I sell my keyboards?

 

 

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People are still writing new music for pianos and violins and flutes and drums, but is anyone writing new music that needs a DX-7 in order to play it like the composer hears it?

 

On the other hand, if you have a DX-7, you can play music that was so associated with that instrument in its day (which was just about every pop tune in 1984). You could donate your keyboards to the NAMM museum. Or just set asisde a room in your house for your own "museum." Then you'll always have something to write about when you get old.

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So basically...the choice is hope that it keeps working, or start a museum. To me it's a pretty fundamental shift that a particular class of musical instrument - the electronic keyboard - it expected to have a limited life span. I'm not sure what the solution is, other than releasing samples into the public domain when a company no longer makes a sample-based keyboard, or making the algorithms for sound synthesis available.

 

Funny you should bring up the DX7. I wrote a song recently where that was exactly the sound I needed...Native Instruments' FM8 to the rescue, So they're keeping that sound alive, even though I don't think even Yamaha makes FM synths any more.

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I'm kind of in the same boat. I have a Mini Moog I restored. I can still buy the sliders so I bought extras for when the originals go completely bad. My other keyboard aren't super. Better then average Yamaha and Casio stuff. If one were to go out I'd just buy something newer. I'm not a full time keyboardist so I don't invest in high end stuff. I can run midi with them If I want to use virtual instruments.

 

I'll be 58 this year so long term preservation of all my hardware instruments isn't the concern it was when I was younger. I have one son that's musical but I doubt he has the time to learn and take advantage of all the gear I've collected over the years. I figured within the next 10 years or so I'll be doing some major down sizing before we move from Houston to Virginia when we move into our second house for retirement.

 

I will keep some things I've had all my life and others have no sentimental or technical value left for me. I was wise buying much of the gear however and most of it should actually turn a profit or break even. I didn't buy allot of gear new so I wont take that depreciation hit.

 

The only Museum I'm concerned with involved my recorded music, not the gear that created it. Luckily that can all be digitized and given to my children. I'll give them my best instruments and amps too if they want them but I plan to sell off the rest at some point and not leave it to my wife to figure out the value of everything. I surely don't want to move with all the "stuff" I have either. Even my record collection will be sold off before that due to the sheer weight of the collection.

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So basically...the choice is hope that it keeps working' date=' or start a museum. [/quote']

 

There's another choice, and that's to decide that you're really never going to use it again. I have only one keyboard (which I've never really used, at least for its intended purpose) so it's not a big deal for me. But I'm not ready to give up the Bozak speakers in my living room when earphones would do the job, or my Ampex AG-440, because it has both half and quarter track heads and four speeds, and I still have tapes that still play that span all of those formats. And I have better things to do with my remaining time on earth than to digitize all of those tapes and get rid of them and the tape deck.

 

And then there's that box of transformers up in the attic, and all the spools of cable of various sorts, and vacuum tubes, and coffee mugs and T shirts from long out of business music and audio companies.

 

So as long as I have room, I'm keeping mine!

 

To me it's a pretty fundamental shift that a particular class of musical instrument - the electronic keyboard - it expected to have a limited life span.

 

That's a reasonable outlook now, but did you think about that when the instrument was new? Today, I think people do that. 30 years ago, tangible things seemed to have more value - just like our music. But it was easier to believe back then that an electronic keyboard would last forever. Electonics was pretty reliable then, and the onlly things to wear out were the key contacts and controls, and their lifespan is pretty much determined by how much you play the instrument. If it's up half its life in the first 20 years, it'll probably still work for another 50 because you'll only be playing it occasonally.

 

On the other hand, I have four DAT recorders here that don't work any more because I had stopped using them regularly. Belts became stretched out of shape. Parts are still available but I just don't have the enthusiasm to fix them up . . . yet..

 

I'm not sure what the solution is, other than releasing samples into the public domain when a company no longer makes a sample-based keyboard, or making the algorithms for sound synthesis available.

 

Didn't whoever owns Mellotron now release sample sets? But they weren't in the public domain - you had to buy them. That's not unreasonable. Though I'll bet there are plenty of privately made samples floating around for free, of varying quality, some of which are probably fine.

 

Funny you should bring up the DX7. I wrote a song recently where that was exactly the sound I needed...Native Instruments' FM8 to the rescue, So they're keeping that sound alive, even though I don't think even Yamaha makes FM synths any more.

 

That's cool. You're one of the few that would know that it was a DX7 sound that you wanted. Today's users would have to discover that for themselves.

 

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It really is a dilemma for electronic keyboardists. As you said, virtual instruments have really come into their own in the past few years, and some of them are really good recreations / reproductions of vintage instruments, such as NI's FM8 or Korg's iPolysix... but there are still tons of vintage 'boards with no virtual instrument equivalent, and when the last of the hardware dies and the parts are no longer there to service them, then what? It will be sad to see those instruments die off, but that kind of obsolescence seems to be what their ultimate fate is destined to be - unless there's sufficient public demand to make it attractive for programmers to recreate them in some form that is compatible with whatever MS and Apple have out at the time...

 

There are similar situations in the land of Pro Audio too. Digital mixers that are no longer supported that are no longer able to interface with the latest computers of the day as they once could, nearfields that you can't get replacement drivers for anymore (NS10), microphones you can no longer find tubes for (U47), etc. etc. And some of those tools are still highly cherished...

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I had a Kawai K3 and a rack full of MIDI modules 10 years ago. Those modules are gone now, but I still have the K3 (mostly as a controller) and have a K1 which I also use as a controller in another room.......but I have Micro Korg, which also has a unique sound, and recently bought the Korg MS-20 mini....BECAUSE I LIKE THE KNOBS, THE SOUND and it is easier to control. The MIDI control surfaces are unpredictable and generic at best. If I had to program each knob and button for each synth, I think that I would pull out the little bit of hair that I still have.

 

I also have a Behringer CMD DC-1 controller which I may program to work with my Fastfingers software or some software synths....but what a pain! My Korg KP3 is my favorite "new" looping /real time timbre machine of today.​

 

So my short answer is YES keep your keyboards. Ask yourself this. Would you trade your Fender or Gibson for a plugin ?

 

Dan​

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Depends on the keyboard seems to me. I'd keep a real analog synth, no question. But there have been countless MIDI keyboards manufactured that just have pretty lousy digital sampled sounds compared to quality of current samplers and other digital instruments.

 

I have an old Kurzweil K2000. There's a few nice sounds on it, but really, nothing I can't find or whip up better in Kontakt or Abysynth or Massive, etc. I keep it around as a controller 'cause the action is so nice - but when it breaks down, I won't have much incentive to spend time and money trying to keep it alive.

 

All those workstations of yore - let 'em go. But the classic analogs....I'd hold on to them.

 

By the bye - kids are always digging up the old synths and messing around with them. I hear lots lf DX-7ish sounds in current electronic material. Or maybe it's FM8 - who can tell??

 

I did sell my FS1R about 4 years ago and kinda have seller's regret. But in reality, I don't think losing it has made the slightest dent in my basic sound arsenal given what's available in software.

 

I still have a Korg Oasys PCI board stuck up in a closet. I'm thinking, for a fun project, of cludging together a PC that can run the last Windows version that the Oasys could handle - Win95 or 98, I can't remember, but I still have all the old Windows installation discs. That little PCI card did sound pretty awesome.

 

nat whilk ii

 

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There has never been a better palette of sounds available to keyboard players than there is now. I got rid of my keyboards and modules four years ago and I'm left with one keyboard—that I'm using solely as a controller—and more virtual instruments than I can keep track of, including Komplete Ultimate 10, Omnisphere 2.0, various Play, Kontakt, and UVI Soundbank titles, BFD 3, Steven Slate Drums, and other VIs. I wish I had access to all of these sounds when I was younger!

 

Sure, the lack of permanence in electronic keyboards and virtual instruments can be a problem; but it's the flip side of the continuous innovation that comes with the territory. On the whole, I'd say we're very lucky.

 

As for Yamaha and FM, it appears they're about to release a new FM-based product tomorrow. More info below:

 

https://yamahasynth.com

 

http://www.gearjunkies.com/2015/07/breaking-news-yamaha-reface-finally-revealed/

 

Best,

 

Geoff

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As for Yamaha and FM, it appears they're about to release a new FM-based product tomorrow. More info below:

 

https://yamahasynth.com

 

http://www.gearjunkies.com/2015/07/breaking-news-yamaha-reface-finally-revealed/

 

Best,

 

Geoff

 

Hmmm... rather interesting teaser videos - thanks for posting those Geoff! :cool2:

 

The mention of the CS is what will have me checking back tomorrow... :snax:

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I still have all (most) of my vintage keyboards and lots of vintage hardware... and I plan on getting more on the pre-owned market. There's something about them that IMO can't fully be emulated. But even for those who believe we can replace everything with virtual instruments just remember someday we will look at our current computer technology like we now see the Commodore 64.

 

My old synths keep running and I won't mind getting out the soldering iron and replacing components if/when I have to. Just remember how quickly technology changes. My vintage synths have outlived several generations of "cutting edge" computer technology. My analog tape decks have outlived DAT, ADAT and many PC/digital audio interface combinations and software.

 

There's still a lot of support out there to keep vintage equipment running. For example, within the last year I bought a brand new 8-track rec/repro head for my Tascam TSR-8 from Tascam Parts Dept in Montebello. I also put new rubber on it (pinch roller, capstan drive belt etc). I have no doubt it will last for another 25 years.

 

I have keyboards and synth modules from Moog, Roland, Ensoniq and kurzweil, and you will have to pry them from my cold dead hands. :D

 

 

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A good barometer for figuring out if the old keyboard is worth keeping, is eBay. Chances are if you own it, so does somebody else, and they want to sell it. If the keyboard is worth more than you paid for it, I'd say hang on to it..Or cash in.

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I've no doubt that any "virtual instrument" will be usable on future hardware assuming there's a market for it. OTOH I'm rather bummed that some of the soundblaster file formats aren't playable on my PC - I love the primitiveness of those old cheaparse FM syth tunes ripped from video games. But then, I haven't looked recently so maybe they are now? I think it was Win98 that last could play some of mine...

 

EDIT> This looks promising smile.png :

http://www.shikadi.net/adplug/

Don't think the hardware FM syth is still in newer PC'sfrown.gif but it does have an emulator.

 

EDIT> Works fine and found some CMF files here:

http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=Category:Games_That_Use_CMF

Most of those I had already (probably on floppy ;) ) .

I guess there really weren't many decent ones, only the game designers did much with that carpy FM syth chip. I still think it was amazing how good some of those sounded given the hardware limitations.

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...and while I appreciate a nice piano or organ (real or "virtual") I still love some of the early synth recordings with the obviously synthetic sounding Moog, ARP and Mellotron synths - A.R.P. even once showed me and a friend around his company :) . Oh, and I still think it funny when you try to explain to some purist that a B3 is "just" a synth too ;) .

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I have a lot of keyboards that are getting, shall we say, long in the tooth. They've lasted this long...some for a quarter century...and although they're working fine, they won't last forever. Some parts simply aren't made any more, so if they fail, it's a big problem.

 

I also have a bunch of virtual instruments that replace a lot of the hardware. So now I have a chance to downsize, get rid of some of the 'boards, and simplify my life.

 

But...

 

How long will those virtual instruments last? It depends. I doubt they'll last as long as the physical keyboards will, as they're subject to the whims of Apple and Microsoft. I sort of see the keyboards the way you see people driving around in restored classic cars. You can do it, but it becomes very time-consuming to try to chase down a steering box for a 1957 Ford.

 

We have pianos from the 1800s that still work fine, and guitars that are more than half a century old that don't need much more than new strings. Classical instruments from centuries ago are still playable, but it looks like the legacy of today's electronics will be...recordings of them, and not much else.

 

I suppose if there was enough demand today's electronic keyboards can be emulated as long as there are programmers and computers, but that's making a lot of assumptions.

 

Or maybe music should be ephemeral. We use the tools that are available, we make music, we move on.

 

Should I sell my keyboards?

 

 

I just purchased a Prophet 6 after years of selling off hardware and going ITB. Now I`m looking to purchase a mixer. I have plenty of VIs, plenty of plug ins, but I miss that contact with the actual instrument. The P6 is a beautiful instrument, every knob is right there in front of you so grab it and tweak. I miss that interaction with software synths. Same for a mixer… I don`t plan on buying much hardware in the future but you have to ask yourself, "How do I see myself working in the future?" For me, purchasing the P6 made perfect sense because I am writing more instrumental music these days and I want an instrument that allows me to manipulate it in real time and so directly.

 

Honestly Craig, if you`re not using those hardware synths, sell them.

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Keep the modules.

 

I still have a working Roland MT-32, two Yamaha TX81z's and an Akai S-900 that I bought when I was making music on an Atari ST computer. I've added some others through the years including a Korg DS8, Korg i3, a Sound Canvas, a Studio Canvas, two Yamaha VL70ms and a couple more.

 

They all still work although the S-900 is a little flaky due to the disk drive. Some of the sounds on the MT, DS8 and TX81z are still great while others are dated. But even some of the dated ones come in handy from time to time when doing classic material or retro stuff.

 

How long does a soft-synth last? Since I got the first MT32 I've had Macs with Motorola chips to IBM chips to Intel chips. My DOS-5 computing went through many versions of Windows from 3.1 to 8.1.

 

None of my old Atari, DOS, or early Mac or Win programs work. For that part I don't even have those computers anymore, they all went belly up. The oldest one I have runs XP.

 

An aside: I got the Atari after reading an old "Electronic Musician" magazine that you may have been involved with, Craig. I ran classified ads in that mag for >20 years stating with I think Robin Boyce as my rep.

 

A few points stand out.

 

  1. No software synth would have lasted 30 years and still work. OS changes, driver changes, etc. have rendered quite a number of software apps obsolete
  2. Many software synths need constant upgrading to keep working with OS changes. Once paid for the hardware synth only needs repair, and I've only had one repair job needed since 1985. A disk drive on a Peavey sample player went and while fixing it, the technician blew it up. Mechanical parts wear out, but my hardware synth modules keep on cranking out the notes
  3. There is about the same degree of latency on all my synths (5ms to 6ms which is for all practical purposes none). That means without time-shifting any tracks to compensate for different degrees of latency, I can mix my sampled Fender bass, sampled left and right hand snares, other drums from other synths, Doctor Solo from my MT32, the Tele Rear Pickup patch from my SD-90, Edgy Rhodes from y TX81zm the congas from my SC-55, and the physical modeling sax from my VL70m
  4. Since the voices are stored in the ROM or RAM of my synths, there is no tax on the CPU of my computer so it runs quickly, happily and doesn't crash (much).

 

So if you want to get rid of your synths, I have a great idea. Send them to me and I'll treat them with TLC and let them do what they want to do - sing.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

 

 

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Probably the number one maintenance / repair that old synths and modules need semi-regularly (every five to ten years or so) is their internal batteries need to be replaced. Without those, the program memory has to be reset all the time, and you lose any edits as soon as you shut the thing down. Same with old digital effects processors.

 

The stuff that gets scary is when disk drives die (I lost an old Roland rackmount module to that years ago), or when the screens die - good luck trying to find a replacement screen for some instruments; for others, there are still solutions available. I have an old Emu sampler that needs a new screen / backlighting - you can only read the screen now by shining a flashlight on it... the parts are still available, but I use it so infrequently these days that I haven't bothered fixing it, but I guess I probably should while I still can get the parts.

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Hmmm... rather interesting teaser videos - thanks for posting those Geoff! :cool2:

 

The mention of the CS is what will have me checking back tomorrow... :snax:

In case you missed it, Phil, here's more on Yamaha's new ReFace series:

 

[video=youtube;gR47UZNwxlM]

 

[video=youtube;1DUs8We12EY]

 

[video=youtube;ol2xUFtrNSw]

 

[video=youtube;yyf-2A1ePCY]

 

Best,

 

Geoff

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A good barometer for figuring out if the old keyboard is worth keeping' date=' is eBay. Chances are if you own it, so does somebody else, and they want to sell it. If the keyboard is worth more than you paid for it, I'd say hang on to it..Or cash in. [/quote']

 

And if the keyboard is worth nothing...wait 20 years, and it will be worth a fortune :)

 

I bought a Minimoog when you couldn't give them away because analog had fallen out of favor. I can only imagine what it's worth now, given that I restored it with original parts and Bob Moog autographed it. OTOH hand I have a Peavey DPM-3. I love that keyboard because it had a unique clarity when tranposed that no other sample playback keyboard had. It's probably worth nothing in the real world. but when a friend of mine located a new one that was sitting around, I snapped it up.

 

I guess that has a lot to do with it...if you have certain idiosyncratic likes, you want to hold on to those babies. As to the ROMplers...it you're just looking for sounds, very true, you can do a lot better these days.

 

And Geoff, I certainly can't fault your taste in virtual instruments :)

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I just purchased a Prophet 6 after years of selling off hardware and going ITB. Now I`m looking to purchase a mixer. I have plenty of VIs, plenty of plug ins, but I miss that contact with the actual instrument. The P6 is a beautiful instrument, every knob is right there in front of you so grab it and tweak. I miss that interaction with software synths.

 

I had a chance to review a Moog Voyager and it sounded sooooo silky smooth...and the immediacy of the control was of course wonderful. It reminded me that there are analog synthesizers, and there are analog synthesizers. Dave Smith certainly has the recipe down. I love his boards.

 

Honestly Craig, if you`re not using those hardware synths, sell them.

 

Here's my problem. I of course have to play the synth, and make sure it's all up to snuff before I can think of selling it. Big mistake. As soon as I start to play it, I remember why I wanted it...and most of the programs are filled with my own patches, so I'm not going to create them elsewhere. There's one Polysix sound I made that I absolutely cannot duplicate on any synth, analog or digital. Believe me, I've tried...it's like a brass section created by angels. It's clearly not my programming, or I'd be able to duplicate it.

 

I may need an intervention or something. :)

 

 

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