OT: Feel underpaid / undervalued as a musician?

[MrKnobs]

You have plenty of company.

 

...Credit Suisse data reveals that just 1% own 46% of the world, while two-thirds of the world’s people have less than $10,000. Forbes also reports that just 67 billionaires already own half of Planet Earth’s assets. Credit Suisse predicts a world with 11 trillionaires in a couple generations, as the rich get richer and the gap widens.

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-inequality-bubble-is-accelerating-worse-than-29-even-1789-2015-04-14?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

 

Terry D.

[WRGKMC]

I'd like to see one of those billionaires pick up a guitar and have a joust with me one on one. I could then judge his creative talent against my own. I already know I don't have the talent to make big investments and have no passion to do so. I probably wouldn't want to step into his world to compete with what he does either. One thing money cant buy is talent from another individual. Nor can it buy any other human trait. It can only rent it from others if they choose to do so.

 

Since money is a "thing" that is traded for other "things", it in itself has no power over you. It only has power over you if you allow yourself to become emotionally attached to it, or you are influenced by others who are under the power of its attraction. Unfortunately that's most people on earth and pure musicians into the art for arts sake are one of the smallest minorities out there. They intentionally free themselves from its influence to get to the deepest purest depths of art where money cant take them.

 

This is why most artists throughout history relied on the rich to support their ability to produce art. The rich in turn bought the art knowing the human sacrifice it took to produce that art and place high values on good works by artists of all kinds from painting to music. Its their method of getting closer to the art through its purchase. Unfortunately it doesn't make them artists themselves, but don't tell them that. If anything you want them convinced it does so we can profit from their ignorance and continue to do what we do best.

[MrKnobs]

One thing money cant buy is talent from another individual.

 

There's a classic science fiction story about that, where talent / training / etc could be taken from one person and implanted in another. A superb pianist down on his luck or near his end of life could sell his talent to a rich person who never took a lesson in his life. I don't think we're too far fron that possibility but I suspect that, unlike in the story, the talent could be copied not just moved.

 

Since money is a "thing" that is traded for other "things", it in itself has no power over you.

 

Unless of course you like to eat and have a roof over your head, or need medical treatment.

 

Terry D.

 

[onelife]

. . .

 

A superb pianist down on his luck or near his end of life could sell his talent to a rich person

. . .

 

I recall hearing about some people who had similar 'experience' ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[philboking]

>>> . . . I recall hearing about some people who had similar 'experience' ...

 

I read once (I think it was Guitar Player magazine) that Frank Marino, guitarist for Mahogany Rush, was suddenly able to play guitar after awakening from a near-fatal car crash. No such luck for me, though... I had to beat music into my head over the course of many decades.

[Temple of Light]

I played guitar for 2/3 hours on a sidewalk last night made sweet sixteen bucks for my effort. Enough to feed my face and prolong my grace...

Did sound for Reggae Meisters tonight, they made my gear sound really good...

[MrKnobs]

>>> . . . I recall hearing about some people who had similar 'experience' ...

 

I read once (I think it was Guitar Player magazine) that Frank Marino, guitarist for Mahogany Rush, was suddenly able to play guitar after awakening from a near-fatal car crash. No such luck for me, though... I had to beat music into my head over the course of many decades.

 

Looks like Frank had to work at it too - while he was in the hospital.

 

Rock and roll urban legend suggests that when Marino was a teen he was visited by an apparition of Jimi Hendrix after a bad LSD trip, which led to the spirit of Hendrix entering Marino’s body and bestowing his ability to play the guitar. Marino renounces the fabrication and says Hendrix was still alive while he was in the hospital recuperating from the LSD trip. But he did learn to play the guitar while recovering.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/exclusive-frank-marino-legendary-guitarist-sidelined-with-severe-pain

 

Terry D.

[WRGKMC]

talent noun ability, gift, aptitude, power, skill, facility, capacity, bent, genius, expertise, faculty, endowment, forte, flair, knack Both her children have a talent for music. Quotations

"Talent is like electricity. We don't understand electricity. We use it" [Maya Angelou]

"Genius does what it must, and talent does what it can" [E.G. Bulwer-Lytton]

"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius" [sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Valley of Fear]

 

A person who has talent is often called gifted. I call that as being misinformed BS. You are not given talent as a gift, its something you work and condition for. Someone may have a good hand/eye coordination for catching a ball and have the "aptitude" to be a good ball player. Unless he plays the sport allot its unlikely that aptitude will be refined.

 

Same thing goes for music. People see someone play an instrument and sees how easy they make it look to play. What they do not see is the thousands of hours that person put in to make that one song look and sound as good. The only way to explain it is to give them a Godly title "gifted"

 

To me that doesn't exist. Some point that person was trained to have the proper aptitude to learn. I know with my own background I was exposed to music from a very young age and had older siblings who were musicians so I developed an aptitude and skill very early on through first hand exposure.

 

With others it may begin very early in life, being exposed to music or similar artistic influences by parents who had specific traits which allowed a simple path for that child to adapt their skills. (ie. early blues players spent time being exposed to Gospel music in Church)

 

With others it may be a much tougher road depending on the basics you were given to work with by family friends and teachers growing up.

 

[philboking]

I've more or less stopped hunting for gigs. I do accept them when offered (which does happen from time to time). But generally I sit in on house jams, open mics, and similar stuff; mostly so I don't have to be loading in PA gear at 4 AM.

 

I don't expect to make a living from doing live music. I do it because it's a passion.

It's a different game these days....

[Bucksstudent]

I have no value as a musician. I give all my music away for free, and even some of my actual music away like today when I gave a friend some good vinyl to give to his new girlfriend. I knew when I was fourteen that if I tried to sell my music, I'd have a hard time getting even one person to listen. In high school, I was the only kid buying CDs. Everyone was pirating and burning copies for each other. So, I knew the only way I could find an audience with such a niche style was to do it for the passion and love of creating music rather than the profit. That's just my personal philosophy and I encourage people who can make money from their music to do it.

 

In terms of talent versus gifted, there's a whole forum of shredders on Ultimate Guitar who have put in hours upon hours on the guitar but have no creative output worth a damn. I think one can possess ability and not know what to do with it but play other people's songs. It takes some mental ability in order to put the notes together to make something intriguing. Yes, it takes a lot of practice, but individuals are different from one another. There are musicians who are gifted with the intellectual ability to make good music and those who are not. Everyone learns in their own way with no real explanation as to why. People just perceive things differently than others, and there's probably a whole lot of psychological research on that, but it's seemingly random. Some people are meant to be doctors or ditch diggers, and others are meant to create. The two are not mutually exclusive, of course.

 

 

[AlamoJoe]

I know what you're trying to express here Buck. I take issue with your statement that you "Have no value as a musician" however. Monetary value? Maybe not. Your musical creations are esoteric. Created because you are compelled to create them. Your conscious self has less control over what you create than perhaps you realize. Your soul is in charge of all of that. The fact that you create and release your work, without serious consideration of commercial remuneration or compensation speaks to the quality of your commitment.

 

You're doing fine. Everything you put out there is better than what preceded it. You've got a spooky/cool approach to vocals, some serious chops, and your arrangements get more and more complex. All your efforts lyrically, are honest...They bespeak your experiences on this stinking ball we on.

 

Vincent Van Gogh never sold Jack while he lived. I hope you live a very long time. I hope I live long enough to see a great deal of other people to "get" you.

 

I have, and am richer for it.

 

[Bucksstudent]

I know what you're trying to express here Buck. I take issue with your statement that you "Have no value as a musician" however. Monetary value? Maybe not. Your musical creations are esoteric. Created because you are compelled to create them. Your conscious self has less control over what you create than perhaps you realize. Your soul is in charge of all of that. The fact that you create and release your work, without serious consideration of commercial remuneration or compensation speaks to the quality of your commitment.

 

You're doing fine. Everything you put out there is better than what preceded it. You've got a spooky/cool approach to vocals, some serious chops, and your arrangements get more and more complex. All your efforts lyrically, are honest...They bespeak your experiences on this stinking ball we on.

 

Vincent Van Gogh never sold Jack while he lived. I hope you live a very long time. I hope I live long enough to see a great deal of other people to "get" you.

 

I have, and am richer for it.

 

Damn dude... Right in my feels. Thank you so much, Joe.

[WRGKMC]

I second Alamo Joes sentiments.

 

Don't let your self esteem fall too low. Its an unhealthy state of mind that's no good for anyone. No one wants to hang with someone who thinks their work is worthless. Even if your work isn't the best, people want to hang with positive thinkers and doers. That's what makes both people and their music great. 100% pure positive attitude is unstoppable, Its something that is infectious to peoples souls and it finds its way into an artists music. It may not be an easy thing to maintain, but there is no healthy substitute for it.

 

There are enough things in life that are going to take you down and out without you voluntarily giving in or giving up. Don't let your art be a casualty to the things we all must face in life. Your self value is a matter of perspective. It does need to be reinforced buy others who understand its importance in life. It can be hard to find people to hang with who understand self esteem, but it is a two way street and you don't get something for nothing.

 

The old phrase "You reap what you sew" can be interpreted as, "You get back exactly what you give to others" If you give others negative reinforcement, you not only get that same negative, self defeating vibes back, but you also have the guilt of doing that which makes it twice as had to correct your own self worth.

 

The steps are simple. Find others who feel the same about their music, and make an effort to help them to appreciate their work more. (After all who understands the obstacles involved better then you do). You do have to make the first move, never expect anything back, and never tell them why you're helping them. In the process that karma comes back to you many times over.

 

You have to be consistent and not expect instant results. Like anything, it takes practice to be good at it. I'm not great at it myself. I learned its value late in life and still battle a selfish streak a mile wide. (well maybe a half mile now) I do know many who are experts and I recognize its value so I work at it the best I can. There's no voodoo magic or religious factor involved with it, even though you can find many parallels in those areas. Its just how normal humans expect to interact, and when done right it works to help others with the added benefit of helping you. Its the act of working at it that gets you there not the pats on the back. We musicians tend to get too much of those as it is and too much of anything can be bad.

[MrKnobs]

"Talent is like electricity. We don't understand electricity. We use it" [Maya Angelou]

 

Maya Angelou didn't understand electricity, perhaps, but I think science has a pretty solid grasp on it.

 

I'd say what we profoundly don't understand is MUSIC. Sure, we understand the acoustic properties of instruments, the great composers figured out which scales and intervals and harmonies work well to convey happy or sad or just WTF (looking at you, Bartok!) and how pleasant and right it feels when a chord resolves and countless other things but what we don't know is why music is so important to people of all cultures and times. Something in the human brain wants rhythm, melody, and harmony. Children come with it already built in from the manufacturer!

 

Any brain scientists out there please feel free to correct me on that.

 

Terry D.

[Anderton]

I have no value as a musician. I give all my music away for free, and even some of my actual music away like today when I gave a friend some good vinyl to give to his new girlfriend. I knew when I was fourteen that if I tried to sell my music, I'd have a hard time getting even one person to listen. In high school, I was the only kid buying CDs. Everyone was pirating and burning copies for each other. So, I knew the only way I could find an audience with such a niche style was to do it for the passion and love of creating music rather than the profit. That's just my personal philosophy and I encourage people who can make money from their music to do it.

 

In terms of talent versus gifted, there's a whole forum of shredders on Ultimate Guitar who have put in hours upon hours on the guitar but have no creative output worth a damn. I think one can possess ability and not know what to do with it but play other people's songs. It takes some mental ability in order to put the notes together to make something intriguing. Yes, it takes a lot of practice, but individuals are different from one another. There are musicians who are gifted with the intellectual ability to make good music and those who are not. Everyone learns in their own way with no real explanation as to why. People just perceive things differently than others, and there's probably a whole lot of psychological research on that, but it's seemingly random. Some people are meant to be doctors or ditch diggers, and others are meant to create. The two are not mutually exclusive, of course.

 

 

Great insights, except for the first sentence. What you just posted has a whole lot of value, and only a musician could have made a post like that.

 

I'd much rather listen to someone's emotions than someone's technique, although I certainly don't mind it when both are present