Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Influences

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Influences

    So what effect will the "Blurred Lines" verdict have on the music industry?

    Industry veteran Irving Azoff, who manages the Eagles and is chairman and Chief Executive of Azoff MSG Entertainment, said such disputes were normally resolved between music business insiders based on how many notes in a row were shared by two songs.

    "It's never been based on a jury's opinion," said Azoff, whose firm represents Williams on performance rights issues. "If we're now entering into a gray area, that's very scary."

    On the other hand, a veteran music industry executive said that protecting creative work was just as important to musicians, and that inspiration bordering on copying was becoming too common.

    "Somebody should be protecting that," said the executive, who asked not to be named because he might work with those involved in the case in the future. "If it has a chilling effect on copyright infringement, that should happen.... Stopping theft is what we're talking about."
    I've never consciously tried to copy any music but I've sometimes realized later (sometimes ten or even twenty years later) where certain influences in my music may have come from.

    Have you ever consciously tried to copy another piece of music?

    Have you ever come to the conclusion that any of your music may have been unconsciously influenced by other pieces of music?

  • #2
    Sure. I was playing around on my guitar once and thought I had come up with something nice sounding and that I was awesome. Then I realized it was 'Glycerine' by Bush and that I was an idiot.
    ____________________________
    Powered by squirrels.

    Comment


    • #3
      We are all influenced by the works of those we admire. Intentionally plagirizing someones work and presenting it as your own is something entirely different. If a Johnny Winters, A Clapton or Hendrix lick comes off my hands and onto a recording, it ain't gonna be the same..and that isn't plagerism in my mind's eye.
      http://thebasement.createaforum.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Those with the legal resources will steal no matter the wording or method.
        Originally posted by Unconfigured Static HTML Widget...







        Write Something, or Drag and Drop Images Here...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Folder View Post
          Have you ever consciously tried to copy another piece of music?
          Yes. If I`m in a songwriting slump, I will grab a song in the style in which I`m trying to write and borrow the chords, melody, and feel. Then I`ll throw in my own words, change the melody, change a song or two, and before you know it, a song is born. I did this on my first record. I needed a tune that was upbeat to start the record off and at that time, I was listening to a song by the Goo Goo Dolls called Big Machine. I really liked the feel of the tune so I mimicked the feel and grabbed the chord progression, and wrote a song called "Go". I think if you listened to both songs, you would not hear what I did but you may say that the feel was sort of the same.

          Originally posted by Folder View Post
          Have you ever come to the conclusion that any of your music may have been unconsciously influenced by other pieces of music?
          I think all music is somehow influenced by some other piece of music. I find myself writing something and then asking, what would so and so do here?

          Comment


          • #6
            I've never sat down and used another song as a template, but we all have influences by osmosis if nothing else.

            IMO if that jury thought "Got to Give it Up" and "Blurred Lines" sounded that much alike maybe they would make the Marivin Gaye estate give the 7 million to Wilson Simonal for Gaye stealing from the Brazilian song, "Nem Vem Que Não Tem" (1970.) or the French version done by Bardot, "Tu veux ou tu veux pas."

             
            <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

            “Music is well said to be the speech of angels... nothing among the utterances allowed to man is felt to be so divine."

            ~Thomas Carlyle

            Comment


            • #7
               
              <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

              “Music is well said to be the speech of angels... nothing among the utterances allowed to man is felt to be so divine."

              ~Thomas Carlyle

              Comment


              • #8
                Yep

                I pretty much copied 'Under the Sun' by Black Sabbath for this one

                https://soundcloud.com/songwriter101/one-minute
                smoke - new album
                the mirror - album
                storm - album
                the asylum - forum

                Comment


                • #9
                  Things like this are a tough call for sure. On one hand, the entire WORLD thought "Blurred Lines" sounded just like "Got To Give It Up" when it was first released. Except for Williams and Thicke, apparently. Really? They didn't notice or no one pointed it out to them along the way? On the other hand, it is certainly plausible that the groove was so imbedded in his subconscious that trying to give the song that "retro" feel makes it unintentionally come out this way.

                  I only ever knowingly tried to rip off a song once. Years ago this girl I was dating was still hung up on her ex-bf and she tormented me by constantly playing a song that reminded her of him. A rather obscure .38 Special track. (Yes, I'm dating myself.) To exorcize myself of that demon, I consciously took the melodic hook of the song and the chord changes underneath it and wrote a new song about my (by now ended) relationship with her based on that. By the time I finished writing the rest of the song and my band worked up an arrangement, it sounded nothing at all like the .38 Special track to anyone but me. But I knew the genesis of the song. Now I understand that a lot of songs are probably written in the same manner, but at the time I felt like I was purposely ripping off someone else's work.

                  There have also been several times when, over the course of writing a song, it's decided that it sounds too much like something else and either gets changed or discarded. In retrospect, I think we were probably being too harsh. Especially by today's standards where it seems that "there's nothing new under the sun" is becoming more and more obvious.

                  ______________

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Folder View Post

                    I've never consciously tried to copy any music but I've sometimes realized later (sometimes ten or even twenty years later) where certain influences in my music may have come from.

                    Have you ever consciously tried to copy another piece of music?

                    Have you ever come to the conclusion that any of your music may have been unconsciously influenced by other pieces of music?
                    Initially, I was siding with the Gaye family but the more I rolled it around in my head, the more I thought that this suit didn't have sufficient merit under existing interpretations of copyright law.

                    This appears to be another case of a sympathetic litigant and a jury that doesn't necessarily understand the legal issues (and likely a defense team incompetent to the task).

                    There are a number of superficial similarities, the bass lines have a similar vibe in sections, the later song has production elements similar to the Gaye tune (but then so does Johnny Rivers' single version of "Secret Agent Man," and a bout a jillion other 'party-in-the-studio' vibe tracks from the 60s and 70s.)

                    But they're clearly not the same song. You wouldn't mistake one for the other.

                    This seems very much to be a case of a misguided jury (and perhaps judge, I haven't followed the case at all) seeking to deliver perceived 'justice' -- and, I'm guessing, a quite incompetent defense team.

                    To the extent it might be treated as precedent (I think it won't), it could certainly muddy the waters of intellectual property rights -- and those are waters that definitely are already plenty murky.


                    PS... I think the Gaye family will outstrip sympathy for them by insisting that all recorded versions and masters of "Blurred Lines" be destroyed and the recording 'recalled.'

                    And now they say they're going to go after other Farrell tunes that are even LESS like the works they are alleged to have copied. I think they're seriously overreaching and they're going to end up getting smacked down, in some fashion.

                    I certainly expect this judgment to shrink hugely in appeals. It might well not survive at all.
                    Last edited by blue2blue; 03-13-2015, 11:42 AM.
                    .

                    music and social links | recent listening

                    Comment


                  • #11
                    And check this:

                    "The eight-person jury, most of whom appeared to be more of Gaye's generation than Thicke and Williams' demographic, heard "Blurred Lines" several times during the trial and twice watched the raunchy music video — but never got to hear the full recording of "Got to Give It Up." Because laws when Gaye wrote the song allowed only the sheet music composition, not the sound recording, to be copyrighted, jurors heard short snippets and a stripped-down version created by Thicke and Williams' musicologist with just Gaye's vocals over a bass line and chords on a keyboard."
                    http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...ry.html#page=1

                    Keep in mind, though, that that bit about the Gaye song's sound recording not being covered by copyright is not accurate. US federal jurisdiction over sound recording copyright went into effect February 15, 1972, and protection was extended backward in certain circumstances.And, of course, we've seen successful actions regarding sampling and other sound recording copyright violations from recordings before that date, anyway.
                    Last edited by blue2blue; 03-13-2015, 12:00 PM.
                    .

                    music and social links | recent listening

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by blue2blue View Post

                      Initially, I was siding with the Gaye family but the more I rolled it around in my head, the more I thought that this suit didn't have sufficient merit under existing interpretations of copyright law.

                      This appears to be another case of a sympathetic defendant and a jury that doesn't necessarily understand the legal issues (and likely a defense team incompetent to the task).

                      There are a number of superficial similarities, the bass lines have a similar vibe in sections, the later song has production elements similar to the Gaye tune (but then so does Johnny Rivers' single version of "Secret Agent Man," and a bout a jillion other 'party-in-the-studio' vibe tracks from the 60s and 70s.)

                      But they're clearly not the same song. You wouldn't mistake one for the other.
                      The interesting thing is that the similarity lies mostly in the arrangement. Which isn't about songwriting. And, as you pointed out, once you start going down that road, then all sorts of songs sound like each other.

                      If this case holds, then I think Mark Ronson and Bruno Mars are going to be on the hook for "Uptown Funk" sounding so much like "Jungle Love".





                      ______________

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by guido61 View Post
                        There have also been several times when, over the course of writing a song, it's decided that it sounds too much like something else and either gets changed or discarded. In retrospect, I think we were probably being too harsh. Especially by today's standards where it seems that "there's nothing new under the sun" is becoming more and more obvious.
                        One time a guy I used to write songs with played me a really cool chord progression he had just come up with. We played around with it for a couple of days until it dawned on me that it sounded a lot like "Sarah Smile" by Hall and Oates. When I told him this he said "Damn I hate that song" and he refused to ever play it again. I thought it sounded great and wanted to continue with it but he was adamant that One It was not original and Two he hatred Sarah Smile.

                        Comment


                      • #14
                        I wrote and recorded a song only to discover after the project was finished that I got the melody for the chorus from an old Chicago album that I used to listen to a lot in high school. It wasn't one of the main tracks or even one of my favourites but it was definitely a case of "unconscious plagiarism."

                        The one that always gets me was when Fantasy Records went after John Fogerty because his songs sounded like some CCR tunes.
                        As a human being, you come with the whole range of inner possibilities
                        from the deepest hell to the highest states.

                        It is up to you which one you choose to explore
                        .

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Imagine if the Glenn Miller estate had gone after a couple hundred big bands that 'nicked' his sound.
                          .

                          music and social links | recent listening

                          Comment













                          Working...
                          X