Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bob Dylan singing Sintra standards ?

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bob Dylan singing Sintra standards ?

    Bob Dylan has all sorts of credibility. Over the years he's done tons of interesting records. But singing standards ? I read a quote one time where he said that he killed the tin pan allyey/Brill building tradition. But now that age and decades of cigarettes have taken their toll he's doing an album of standards.
    I'm thinking that there are "yes people" all around that think anything he cooks up is genius. I have an old friend in Dallas who thinks this new album, based on he preview song is great work. He said that BD is interpreting the songs like a great actor would. I give Bobby Jesus (as I call him to my friend) credit for being a historian of musical Americana, based partly on this radio show he did a few years back. But I think this sort of singing by him fall flat on it's face. I'm thinking that there must be Bobheads just like there are Deadheads who think that every utterance by their icon is timeless.

    Does anybody think this is good work ? Aside from the great instrumental accompaniment ?



    David
    https://soundcloud.com/david-goethe
    Last edited by davd_indigo; 02-01-2015, 10:27 AM.
    https://soundcloud.com/david-goethe/tracks

    Dave's ,YouTube channel

  • #2
    It'll be interesting to see what directions this thread goes. I don't think he sounds good singing this, based on this one song, but the instruments do sound pretty great, as you say.

    Unlike some people, I do think that there are instances in which he sounds pretty good singing, but I don't really like it in this context. And I don't really know this song very well, so I'm not comparing it to the original mentally.
    Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

    Comment


    • #3
      Here's a link to some of Al Schmitt's comments about the upcoming release:

      http://www.daysofthecrazy-wild.com/v...e-thinks-sexy/
      Last edited by UstadKhanAli; 02-01-2015, 10:37 AM.
      Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, my.

        The timbre of his voice has a certain interest but his grasp of the melody seems to conspire with his shakiness of pitch against the effort.

        And, this is funny, I didn't recognize the song by Bob. But as soon as I put it on by Sinatra, before he even sang a lick, I recognized it by the string intro -- I've heard this song a fair amount. I just didn't recognize it as sung by Dylan.


        EDIT... I had stopped listening about 1 minute in on the Dylan. But then, after listening to the Sinatra, I went back to the Dylan to see if I could see why I didn't recognize the melody. Yeah... not my problem. And then, man, around 1'25" -ish he just goes way off the reservation, pitch-wise.
        Last edited by blue2blue; 02-05-2015, 12:26 AM.
        .

        music and social links | recent listening

        Comment


        • #5
          People have always admired Bobs song writing skills and his poetic lyrics. He's always been bashed by his inability to hold a pitch well. The one exception may have been the song Lay Lady Lay where he was run through the meat grinder by the producer to get that part as near perfect as he could. I believe I read he wouldn't go through kind of drilling again. He's noted for recording music in an anti establishment method of leaving things raw and imperfect. I must admit I like writing and recording music that way myself.

          Given all the criticism he received as having a poor voice all those years, You would have to think it has an impact on him and his tastes in music. Sinatra was his parents generation of music and was on the charts all the times he was. Having an admiration for one of the best singers of his time seems natural to me. Sinatra had fantastic pronunciation and pitch when he sang. A polar opposite of Dylan's music.

          I wouldn't doubt Bob has a natural admiration for wanting to have that skill. Who doesn't admire those who can do things you cant do well. I don't think Bob is the type to do Sinatra covers to be sarcastic given the number of musicians he has worked with over the years. I think he may have done it as a tribute to Sinatra or at least those who wrote songs for him.

          You do have to look at a few of the people on that album and those who produced it. I goggled up a few just to confirm my suspicions and it does look like those musicians worked in similar film and music circles to what Sinatra might have.

          This trumpet player for example Played with Woody Herman Who was the backing band for Sinatra on a 20 city tour in 1974 and played behind Sinatra for the entire show including an ABC-TV broadcast of a live one-hour special from Madison Square Garden.

          The trumpet player Dan Fornero is an LA-based freelance trumpet player who has toured the world with Woody Herman, Tom Jones, Brian Setzer Orchestra, Johnny Hallyday, Phil Collins, Neil Diamond and Mumford & Sons

          The recording engineer recorded Mancini and his songs were staples of the easy listening genre including Frank Sinatra.

          Al Schmitt the recording engineer and record producer won 21 Grammy Awards for his work with Henry Mancini, Steely Dan, George Benson, Toto, Natalie Cole, Quincy Jones, and others.


          Sinatra had symphonies like The LA Philharmonic back him or symphonies do tributes to his music
          at various shows.

          Dylan Hart French horn - Performed with the Los Angeles Philharmonic, Santa Barbara Symphony, Redlands Symphony, and the San Diego Symphony Orchestra. Recorded or made television appearances with music legends Michael Buble, Sting, Neil Patrick Harris, Stevie Wonder, Wu-Tang Clan, Gladys Night, Yo-Yo Ma, and Quincy Jones. In addition he can be seen as a horn player on an episodes of CSI: New York and The Mentalist. Most recently you can see Dylan play with Sir Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr on CBS's "The Night That Changed America"

          Gordon Goodwin Recorded with Frank Sinatra as well as the entire gambit of easy listening artists. I wouldn't doubt this player rubbed shoulders with many of the people in the Sinatra circles.


          Francisco Torres - A member of Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band. Francisco has in recent years produced and arranged for Poncho's albums garnering several Grammy nominations, as well as developing a small reputation for Latin Jazz arranging. He has performed with Latin greats Cachao, Celia Cruz, Arturo Sandoval, Spanish Harlem Orchestra, Gilberto Santa Rosa and Victor Manuelle, and can be heard on records by Michael Buble, Dr. Dre, Busta Rhymes, Spoon, and Los Lobos. As a jazz trombonist he has performed with Joey Defrancesco, Terence Blanchard, Natalie Cole, Nicholas Payton, Clare Fischer, Bill Holman and many others. Television credits include Saturday Night Live, Dancing With The Stars, America's Got Talent, The Latin Grammys, the ALMA Awards, The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson and can be heard in the soundtracks of "Confessions Of A Shopaholic", "Charlie St. Cloud" and "Dance With Me".

          He is a firm believer that you must honor the music.


          The way I see it is if Dylan is going to play Sinatra music he at least included some technicians and players who knew something about that music.
          Last edited by WRGKMC; 02-05-2015, 09:23 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            He and William Shatner should record an album of duets.
            ______________

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by guido61 View Post
              He and William Shatner should record an album of duets.


              I have to admit though - it's not quite as bad as I imagined it would be upon reading the thread title... although it is pretty pitchy in spots; but that's Dylan for you.
              **********

              "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

              - George Carlin

              "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

              - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

              "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

              - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

              Comment


              • #8
                I do like his voice in certain instances. I just don't think this is a good choice or match. But doesn't matter, he's going to do what he wants to do, and I gotta respect him for that.
                Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just so my Dylan-fan cred is not in question, I love his sixties output, not every single piece, there's a fair bit of filler and a bit of dross, but the best of it? Wow.

                  And Dylan can (or has been able to) sing Dylan-style, the quasi-ballistic melismatics, the narrow bandwidth 'nasal filter'...

                  ... but I'm here to tell you that based on half of one song (above) -- on top of more or less everything I've heard in the past -- he can't do Sinatra. Nor should he probably try in public in the imaginable future.
                  Last edited by blue2blue; 02-05-2015, 03:04 PM.
                  .

                  music and social links | recent listening

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not that I think it hurts Dylan's credibility at this point in his career to do this, but a man's gotta know his limitations!



                    ______________

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think BD has seen some years - many years ago - when he could sing and hit his pitches. In 1966 I bought the "Freewheelin' Bob Dylan". I'm pretty sure I bought it because it was about the only Dylan at my local JC Penney album section. I'm sure I'd much rather have bought the album that had "Like A Rolling Stone" - "Highway 61 Revisited".

                      My point here is that, I'd argue that BD had a period where he could actually sing. When he was immersed in the folkie scene he was singing similar to a Hank Williams or Mick Jagger. The belting it out school of singing - not the trained head voice thing.

                      My take on all this is that he made an artistic choice to turn his back on all this with his new direction. A new direction that served him well. But in turning his back on the craft of singing, he lost it over the years. And there are still those cigarettes. Which I would argue affected Sinatra's late singing too.

                      These are just opinions. But to make my case:

                      The following two songs are from 1963.





                      Last edited by davd_indigo; 02-07-2015, 12:05 PM.
                      https://soundcloud.com/david-goethe/tracks

                      Dave's ,YouTube channel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's not as bad as It sounded like it would be, but it's definitely not more than one song bearable.
                        I hope it doesn't spawn a Kris Kristofferson doing Tony Bennett album.......Lemmy doing Mel Torme.......
                        ''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"--Edmund Burke
                        Man created science to create what man wants science to create.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As a general rule? Probably not a good idea to release any album that would have killed your career had you released it in your prime.

                          ______________

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I find it interesting that Dylan considers himself a singer first and a songwriter second while James Taylor considers himself a songwriter first and a singer second.

                            Last summer I was hired to play piano for someone singing Adele's version of "Make You Feel My Love." As I was learning the parts I realized what a great song it is and wondered why I never noticed it before. I went back and listened to Dylan's version and realized that I had been so distracted by the scratchy vocals that I missed the song altogether.
                            As a human being, you come with the whole range of inner possibilities
                            from the deepest hell to the highest states.

                            It is up to you which one you choose to explore
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by davd_indigo View Post
                              I think BD has seen some years - many years ago - when he could sing and hit his pitches. In 1966 I bought the "Freewheelin' Bob Dylan". I'm pretty sure I bought it because it was about the only Dylan at my local JC Penney album section. I'm sure I'd much rather have bought the album that had "Like A Rolling Stone" - "Highway 61 Revisited".

                              My point here is that, I'd argue that BD had a period where he could actually sing. When he was immersed in the folkie scene he was singing similar to a Hank Williams or Mick Jagger. The belting it out school of singing - not the trained head voice thing.

                              My take on all this is that he made an artistic choice to turn his back on all this with his new direction. A new direction that served him well. But in turning his back on the craft of singing, he lost it over the years. And there are still those cigarettes. Which I would argue affected Sinatra's late singing too.

                              These are just opinions. But to make my case:

                              The following two songs are from 1963.





                              I think his best singing and guitar work is on the first album (which is mostly 'covers,' actually).
                              .

                              music and social links | recent listening

                              Comment













                              Working...
                              X