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Beware of Mr. Baker documentary


Anderton

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9LrLUyIW3c

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9LrLUyIW3c

 

It's the full documentary, not just a trailer.

 

Well worth seeing...interested to see what y'all think of it. I always thought Ginger Baker was exceptionally innovative in his approach to drumming. Although this film has the rep of tearing Baker apart, I don't see it that way at all. Baker is one tough cookie...and a very interesting person. I'm sure he's difficult to deal with, but most people on his level are.

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I always thought Ginger Baker was exceptionally innovative in his approach to drumming.

 

I haven't watched the entire documentary yet - I started watching it on Netflix.

 

I was a big Cream fan in the day but I thought he overplayed a lot in comparison to some of the pocket drummers such as Ian Paice. When Cream did the reunion thing about ten years ago I developed a whole new appreciation and respect for his unique style

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I saw this a while ago and thought it was good, not feeling that it was a hatchet job. If you want to make Ginger Baker look insane or bad, you really don't have to try very hard.

 

Some of you know that I recorded his son, Kofi Baker, here at my studio a while back, and while he hardly talked smack about his father, you could also tell that the guy was a real character and didn't really get a long with a lot of people.

 

kofibakerondrums.jpg

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No disrespect intended but after 10 minutes I couldn't stand him...just because this guy can bang some sticks on a can doesn't make him worthy of being canonized... The music is good but he is not someone I would ever want to hang with.

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Just remember that all documentaries are interpretations. It's the difference between:

 

Have you seen the documentary on Ginger Baker? What an a-hole!

and

Have you seen the documentary on some guy's take on Ginger Baker? I wonder if Baker is really such an a-hole. Maybe the documentarian dude is the a-hole, I'm sure I'm not qualified to pronounce either way knowing almost nothing about all this except what this one film says.

 

This general principle actually applies to everything else in life, but we'll start with something small.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

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Just remember that all documentaries are interpretations. It's the difference between:

 

Have you seen the documentary on Ginger Baker? What an a-hole!

and

Have you seen the documentary on some guy's take on Ginger Baker? I wonder if Baker is really such an a-hole. Maybe the documentarian dude is the a-hole, I'm sure I'm not qualified to pronounce either way knowing almost nothing about all this except what this one film says.

 

 

 

 

 

If there's other stuff out there that presents him in a different light, I'll be happy to take a look at it and try to reach a balanced conclusion. But pretty much everything I've ever heard or seen about the guy to this point indicates he's a total a--hole.

 

Not that's there anything wrong with that, really. If he's comfortable in his own skin, then more power to him, I suppose.

 

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Just out of curiosity, did Kofi Baker's playing sound like he was influenced by his dad?

 

BTW, I love the wrap on his kit - looks cool!

 

I don't think so. It's more fusion-based, so I would never make the connection. That said, I understand that he plays in some sort of a Cream cover band, so presumably, he has a darned good understanding of his father's approach to the drums.

 

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Just remember that all documentaries are interpretations. It's the difference between:

 

Have you seen the documentary on Ginger Baker? What an a-hole!

and

Have you seen the documentary on some guy's take on Ginger Baker? I wonder if Baker is really such an a-hole. Maybe the documentarian dude is the a-hole, I'm sure I'm not qualified to pronounce either way knowing almost nothing about all this except what this one film says.

 

This general principle actually applies to everything else in life, but we'll start with something small.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

 

The documentary is an interpretation. It often will take a point of view, although some attempt to be neutral.

 

And as viewers, we are interpreting what has been interpreted. I can think that it wasn't a hatchet job while someone else will think, "Wow, those filmmakers really made him look bad...they gave him a royal pasting."

 

So I don't judge the guy really harshly regardless, but I've read a few articles, seen the documentary, and talked to Kofi a bit about his father.

 

I also want to say that many people, seemingly especially artists, are complex, and can come off as sweethearts, assholes, generous, stingy, and much more, all wrapped up in one little meat puppet.

 

 

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Not only is his art great, but Ken is like what would happen if you took a complete a***hole and reversed the phase switch 180 degrees :)

 

My Dad was a jazz drummer, swing bands...not into rock much, but he thought Ginger Baker was astounding. I saw Cream play live early in their career at a 2,000 seater and it was quite the experience. Sure seemed like Baker had five arms, but the thing is the dude could be pounding rock drums yet swing. He had the lightest heavy touch, for lack of a better term.

 

I wouldn't pass judgement on the guy, losing your father at 4 years old must be tough. Then looking up to a father figure who does heroin...probably not a good choice. The documentary is also a cautionary tale about drugs, the music business, and how easily you're forgotten once the spotlight turns in the other direction. Granted there's a lot of self-destructiveness, but also a restless soul who is always looking for...something. I think it was the father he never had, lost at a time where Baker was old enough to feel the impact of the loss but not old enough to understand it.

 

A tragic figure, no doubt, but he did it his way...for better or worse. And unlike so many artists who simply took from black music, he tried to give back.

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I wouldn't pass judgement on the guy, losing your father at 4 years old must be tough. Then looking up to a father figure who does heroin...probably not a good choice. The documentary is also a cautionary tale about drugs, the music business, and how easily you're forgotten once the spotlight turns in the other direction. Granted there's a lot of self-destructiveness, but also a restless soul who is always looking for...something. I think it was the father he never had, lost at a time where Baker was old enough to feel the impact of the loss but not old enough to understand it.

 

I don't like to pass judgment on people either, but I'm not much for making excuses at the same time. I think we are who we are to a very large degree. Yeah, he went through some tough stuff, but there are others who went through the exact same stuff but turned out completely differently. So it can't be so much about what we go through as much as it is who we are that determines whether we'll turn such things into a positive or a negative.

 

One father will beat two brothers and one will be a wreck from it and the other apparently stronger from the experience. How do we account for the different outcomes? My guess is that without the abusive father both brothers would still have turned out largely the same, but we'd just be pointing to a different reason.

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The documentary is an interpretation. It often will take a point of view, although some attempt to be neutral.

 

And as viewers, we are interpreting what has been interpreted. I can think that it wasn't a hatchet job while someone else will think, "Wow, those filmmakers really made him look bad...they gave him a royal pasting."

 

So I don't judge the guy really harshly regardless, but I've read a few articles, seen the documentary, and talked to Kofi a bit about his father.

 

I also want to say that many people, seemingly especially artists, are complex, and can come off as sweethearts, ****************************s, generous, stingy, and much more, all wrapped up in one little meat puppet.

 

 

 

Definitely - especially with the more complex sorts and those who act out and mouth off and then turn around and are the salt of the earth. It was getting my college degree in history that taught me just how "constructed" all presentations of people and events are. I'm not one to say then they are "all valid, just different" no - I still keep a candle in the window for objectivity as hard as that is to maintain. It's precious enough that just a little makes for a big upgrade in worth.

 

But I just see it all the time - people read one thing or see one documentary and that's it for them - they think they know "the truth" about someone or something and they get real huffy if you say, "jeez, you know you've only heard one side..." they think you just won't accept "the obvious".

 

I confess I was a terrible know-it-all in my 20s and life has cured me (hopefully) of most of that. So I know how to just run with something because it seems to make sense, holds together, and fits my basic ideas of how humans behave for the most part. And face it, it's fun to dissect other people and be critical - it's our National Pastime.

 

Now I feel this actual moral obligation to hear both sides before spreading it all over town. Except when I don't.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

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I don't like to pass judgment on people either, but I'm not much for making excuses at the same time. I think we are who we are to a very large degree. Yeah, he went through some tough stuff, but there are others who went through the exact same stuff but turned out completely differently. So it can't be so much about what we go through as much as it is who we are that determines whether we'll turn such things into a positive or a negative..

 

Well, not excuses, reasons. You don't have to excuse someone's bad behavior, but you can try to understand it.

 

People rarely go through the exact same stuff and even they do, they don't have the same genetic makeup. There are predispositions to addiction, depression, various illnesses, all sorts of things and based on epigenetics, these can vary considerably over time, even for people coming from the same parents. Losing a father can be a major factor but there's never just one isolated event...and if there is, it has to be placed in the context of many other events.

 

I don't subscribe to Locke's concept of tabula rasa, I think there are more factors at play. While it's commendable that some can overcome handicaps that would have leveled others, the jury's out whether it's because they did so through sheer force of will, or because their makeup allowed them to have that sheer force of will while others' makeup made that impossible.

 

The debate is often cast as "nature vs. nurture" but I would update that to RAM vs. ROM. Sometimes we can place data into RAM that overrules the operating system, but sometimes the operating system will overrule. Ginger Baker probably wasn't too good about what he loaded into RAM, but maybe his operating system complicated attempts to do otherwise. It doesn't take long for a feedback loop to be established that perpetuates a mode of behavior.

 

 

 

 

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Well, not excuses, reasons. You don't have to excuse someone's bad behavior, but you can try to understand it.

 

Agreed.

 

People rarely go through the exact same stuff and even they do, they don't have the same genetic makeup.

 

Yes, that's my point. If Baker is an a**hole, he'd almost certainly still be one regardless of what he went through in his life. He might be a different sort of a**hole, but he'd almost certainly still be one, nonetheless.

 

 

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Not only is his art great, but Ken is like what would happen if you took a complete a***hole and reversed the phase switch 180 degrees :)

 

Wow, thank you, that's very kind of you! My opinion of you is rather high as well.

 

Well, not excuses, reasons. You don't have to excuse someone's bad behavior, but you can try to understand it.

 

I think this is important. Really important. I think too often, you can dismiss someone as being "crazy", "insane", a "fanatic", etc. without understanding them. And it doesn't mean that you condone their actions either. I don't condone why someone might shoot up a movie theater or strap bombs to themselves and drive into a pizzeria and blow everyone up. But I can try and understand WHY they did that. And these are extreme examples. Less extreme might be why people desperate to provide for their families might want to sneak across the border, work, and send money home, or why Ginger Baker might do the things he's done.

 

And I would also agree with Nat about not accepting one point of view, not accepting the obvious.

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I think this is important. Really important. I think too often, you can dismiss someone as being "crazy", "insane", a "fanatic", etc. without understanding them. And it doesn't mean that you condone their actions either. I don't condone why someone might shoot up a movie theater or strap bombs to themselves and drive into a pizzeria and blow everyone up. But I can try and understand WHY they did that. And these are extreme examples. Less extreme might be why people desperate to provide for their families might want to sneak across the border, work, and send money home, or why Ginger Baker might do the things he's done..

 

There are moments when I can feel what people are feeling. This is something I tried to develop after learning how biofeedback worked. I would think I felt what others were feeling, but of course, always assumed I was probably imagining or projecting. So I started asking people if what I felt was correct. At first I was right some of the time. But the more I asked, the more I found out when I was feeling correctly. After doing this for a few years I could identify the sensation that went along with being correct.

 

This doesn't make me special at all, in fact I believe everyone has this ability and probably a lot of people have it to a potentially far greater extent than I do - I really had to work at it. But no one ever told us it's something you have to practice, like playing guitar. Do it enough years, collect enough feedback to let you know when you're "in tune" or not, and you'll get good at it whether you want to or not.

 

I feel this has increased my ability to be tolerant of people because I can feel why they are the way they are. But, it's not all wonderful because a lot of times you feel things you really don't want to feel. It's not something you can turn off once it's been turned on, at least not that I know of. That's what the song "Little Pieces" on my YouTube channel is about.

 

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