Members Anderton Posted September 29, 2014 Members Share Posted September 29, 2014 This is the theme for a movie that's sort of "Edge of Tomorrow" meets "It's a Wonderful Life." It'll probably never get finished, let alone green-lighted, but hey - at least it has a theme. [video=youtube_share;0QbAfxqZgf0] This is the final video. For the story behind it, scroll down. This was a really tough song to mix, trying to go from the more acoustic stuff with the more intimate vocals to the "downpour of guitars" in the choruses. So I'm not sure how much I'm going to want to take another crack it at it, but since y'all always come up with such great suggestions...well, I'll be interested to hear what you think. FWIW this uses more of the new "idealized" guitar amp technology that was in "Have Just a Little Faith," including my first foray into an idealized bass amp, so I'm trying to take that whole concept further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 30, 2014 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2014 Sorry for the mobile post's lack of paragraphing. It's really great. Really. Every thing works as it should. VERY well. But... if it were me, and it isn't, but if it were... I'd add certain overdubs to your existing, spot on, mix. All in the move toward adding a layer of high end shimmer. Ideas: add the direct track of your electric that plays first after the acoustic intros. Heavy compression and split with a Dimension D style chorus/ensemble effect. 100% effect to leave the center open for the the original amped guitar. Added sparingly to make that cool guitar hook pop. Add an octave below vocal on your chorus hook phrases. It's just another day. Plenty of 4k shelf for a counterintuitive low note sparkle. Add, on the same vocal phrases, a high vocal above pedaling the high tonic. One note... ITS JUST ANOTHER DAY! Add a tambourine on 2 and 4. Then 16s on C2, C3 etc. Add a whisper vocal track, doubling the lead vocal, no pitch, to your verses. Reference Riders On the Storm's Morrison whisper track. Add answering harmonies, cut and pasted in the holes after main vocal hooks, emphasizing the new high tonic belting. Filtered or amped or distorted, to create contrast to the main and ramping up the excitement toward the end. Or not. It's great as is. Really cool track, Craig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 1, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 Some really good ideas in there, Lee. Of course a good idea is no guarantee I can pull it off, but I'm going to at least give them a try...whisper tracks are really hard to pull off without sounding creepy! I think the guitar figure idea is a slam dunk, though. I think I'm hearing exactly what you're hearing. Octave below vocal will be really hard to pull off, but maybe Mr. Melodyne can come to my assistance. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 1, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 1, 2014 Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can.t come close to the astute advice Lee is giving..But I'll say this..The Lead guitar is Smokin' Mutha Luvin' HOT. Great mix overall, VERY cool song. The only thing I don't care for is that the acoustic guitar sounds way too piezo pickupy. Probably is a piezo I guess..Dunno. Love what you're playing on it but I'd prefer just a good 'ol close miked steel string Gibby or Martin Big body.Excellent work Maestro! Luvin' that guitar work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 I can.t come close to the astute advice Lee is giving..But I'll say this..The Lead guitar is Smokin' Mutha Luvin' HOT. Great mix overall, VERY cool song. The only thing I don't care for is that the acoustic guitar sounds way too piezo pickupy. Probably is a piezo I guess..Dunno. Love what you're playing on it but I'd prefer just a good 'ol close miked steel string Gibby or Martin Big body. Excellent work Maestro! Luvin' that guitar work... Your comments are always helpful, just Lee happens to be very specific. It's all good. Good call, it is a piezo on a solid-body LPX. However, there are two problems. One is that my temporary studio isn't set up yet for decent acoustic instrument miking. The more serious issue is I consider acoustic guitar and electric guitar different instruments, and frankly, I'm not as good on acoustic. I can certainly do a background rhythm part and strum away, but when the guitar is so upfront, my limitations as an acoustic guitarist would probably stick out. Similarly several of Lee's comments pertain to vocals, but one thing I've learned is to work within my limitations. That's why I said "Of course a good idea is no guarantee I can pull it off, but I'm going to at least give them a try." However this is also why the SSS Production Squad is so valuable to me. A lot of the comments push me to take something further and while I may not always get there, I get closer and the results may show up two or three songs down the road. Also, I am going to borrow one of the Epiphone PRO-1 acoustics. They have a more electric feel and are designed to be easy to play. I played a prototype and must admit, it made me sound like a better acoustic player than I really am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 The acoustic guitar is such a huge part of the song, a better acoustic sound would really be great. I'm not a huge fan of that "direct" sort of acoustic guitar sound either. And this may sound strange coming from me since I'm always imploring you to add more psychedelic touches, but the first part of the vocal sounds a little "wobbly" to me. I like how the voice is effected and all, but there's a "wobbly" quality that I'm not sure I like. All in all, it sounds really great, and I'm always happy to hear lots of guitar playing from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 6, 2014 You guys are really good...so I did manage to borrow an acoustic guitar, and it does make all the difference in the world. Lee, did the guitar riff change (it indeed makes it pop more), the octave lower voice in a few places (GREAT effect), and also supported some vocals with the whisper parts. They're hard to hear unless you take them out, in which case you can definitely tell they're missing. The other vocal/answering/high-pitched things didn't work out so well, c'est la vie but I feel the changes did take the song up another notch. I did another mixer tonight...I'll sleep on it and if I still like it tomorrow, I'll slide it into the video and post it. One limiting factor in how much I'll mess with it is the original end was longer and intended to fade. I decided to have a real ending, so I did quite a bit of splicing on the master to re-arrange the end. Anytime I want to remix I have to do this, because making these changes to the multitrack, where 25 tracks are affected by each splice and crossfades are necessary, become a nightmare. Similarly, the flanging is done to the master. AND...I got inspired over the weekend and have a new song. It's seriously psychedelic, but updated. It's another change in direction, kind of light-hearted with a twist...it's called "Catch Me, I'm Dreaming" and I think you'll dig it. I'm sure Lee will suggest adding more lava lamps in the chorus Come to think of it, that's not a bad idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted October 6, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 6, 2014 Cool! Looking forward to hearing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 10, 2014 Well it took a long time to finish off, because I did end up making the changes in the end on the multitrack instead of splicing the master each time, and I did pretty much everything that was suggested - including "de-wobbling" the vocal at the beginning, and adding some more elaborate vocal interplay at the end. That meant the end was more complex, so I nuked the flanging that was on the original because it just ended up cluttering it. Now I can save it for some other song FWIW the acoustic is, AFAIK, the first recording using one of Epiphone's PRO-1 model guitars. I managed to borrow an early sample and I must say that given the price of the PRO-1 line, it's pretty cool. I didn't use the piezo out but figure out how to turn a closet into a recording booth that kept out the machine noise. AGAIN, let me emphasize how helpful it is to me to have your suggestions. I feel very fortunate to draw on not just "a second set of ears" but several sets of ears. I think you comments improve the songs considerably. I will have a new draft posted in the next couple days, I think y'all are going to like it. Ken, I'm really considering identifying it as a Mandrake Memorial song...given that I wrote most of the later material, I figure I'm entitled to use the name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 10, 2014 Members Share Posted October 10, 2014 I will have a new draft posted in the next couple days, I think y'all are going to like it. Ken, I'm really considering identifying it as a Mandrake Memorial song...given that I wrote most of the later material, I figure I'm entitled to use the name Cool! I don't remember the first version well enough to compare the two mentally, but it just seems to sound much better. And I like the acoustic guitar sound MUCH more. A much more pleasing sound, I think. And yes, I like the "de-wobbled" voice in the first verse much more too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted October 10, 2014 Members Share Posted October 10, 2014 Very nice, but needs a tad more cowbell The production on your songs always sounds so 'clear', if you know what I mean. I've no idea how you do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 10, 2014 The production on your songs always sounds so 'clear', if you know what I mean. I've no idea how you do that Probably EQ is responsible for most of it. For example on voice I usually boost the highs so it stands out more. On the acoustic guitar, I added a couple notches so it wouldn't step on other parts. Bass also tends to get a lot of highs to bring out the "ring" and pick noise, which makes it seem louder even though it isn't. Also I don't use a lot of reverb, although I seem to have done a spate of songs lately with some reverb on the voice... Drums often get a "double peak" with a slight bass boost just below the range where most of the bass part lies, and a second boost either in the mids below the vocal boost if I want to bring out the snare, or above the voice to accentuate the hi-hat. The tom-based drum part sounded kind of blurry and mushed together, so I used Sonar's transient shaper to bring out the attack more and make the toms sound more distinct. This is all stuff based on the accumulated knowledge of working in studios for the past 47 years...and also being obsessive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 10, 2014 I don't remember the first version well enough to compare the two mentally, but it just seems to sound much better. And I like the acoustic guitar sound MUCH more. A much more pleasing sound, I think. Yes, that was a really good call from Joe and you. Lee's comments made the song become more "alive." The old version will still be up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzc87x3O5EY for a little bit if you want to compare. And yes, I like the "de-wobbled" voice in the first verse much more too!!! You can thank Melodyne for that! I didn't take the pitch variations out entirely, but toned them down. I'll be posting the next song tonight. It's hard to convey thanks properly via pixels on a screen but again, your collected insights are invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted October 10, 2014 Members Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'll be posting the next song tonight. It's hard to convey thanks properly via pixels on a screen but again, your collected insights are invaluable. Bloody hell, Craig, slow down!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted October 10, 2014 Members Share Posted October 10, 2014 Probably EQ is responsible for most of it. For example on voice I usually boost the highs so it stands out more. On the acoustic guitar, I added a couple notches so it wouldn't step on other parts. Bass also tends to get a lot of highs to bring out the "ring" and pick noise, which makes it seem louder even though it isn't. Also I don't use a lot of reverb, although I seem to have done a spate of songs lately with some reverb on the voice... Drums often get a "double peak" with a slight bass boost just below the range where most of the bass part lies, and a second boost either in the mids below the vocal boost if I want to bring out the snare, or above the voice to accentuate the hi-hat. The tom-based drum part sounded kind of blurry and mushed together, so I used Sonar's transient shaper to bring out the attack more and make the toms sound more distinct. This is all stuff based on the accumulated knowledge of working in studios for the past 47 years...and also being obsessive Crikey! I'm not sure I could be arsed doing all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 11, 2014 Bloody hell, Craig, slow down!!! Only downside is I haven't had time to do any of your songs. But, strike while the iron is hot, and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 11, 2014 Members Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yes, that was a really good call from Joe and you. Lee's comments made the song become more "alive." The old version will still be up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzc87x3O5EY for a little bit if you want to compare. You can thank Melodyne for that! I didn't take the pitch variations out entirely, but toned them down. I'll be posting the next song tonight. It's hard to convey thanks properly via pixels on a screen but again, your collected insights are invaluable. Cool. I hope your Mum's doing better. Missed you at AES....woulda been cool to see you...although my voice is gone. I might have needed to use sign language or act something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 11, 2014 Cool. I hope your Mum's doing better. Missed you at AES....woulda been cool to see you...although my voice is gone. I might have needed to use sign language or act something out. Thanks Ken. My mom was admiitted to the hospital yesterday. I've been dealing with a variety of loose ends regarding her situation...she's 94 and had a good life, there are no unresolved issues between us, I saw her for an extended period of time over the summer and I talk with her every day. She doesn't want me to fly up there just yet but the time is gong to come very soon. The part that really hurts is she's suffering. She's mentally all there, so she's 100% aware of her situation. For the first time yesterday she said she wanted to die, and she said it again today. That's a tough one. I don't want to ask her to hang in there because that's for my benefit, not hers. But I can't bring myself to say yes, that's what she should do. There's no assisted suicide in New Jersey anyway. Her option is losing the will to live, which is proceeding. We don't get to choose when we're born, and we don't get to choose when we die unless we choose to die. More people die in the US from suicides than homicides, but rarely with the benefit of a safe environment and a medically certain option. As much as I don't want to let go of my mom - I'm the only one left in her family - she wants to go. It's tough. The one thing that makes it bearable is an experiment my father ran after he died that showed me something continues even after the physical body is no more. It's too complex to explain just now, but it was incontrovertible as it involved two other people who had no idea what we had discussed. I was never the same after that and never had the same attitude about death, either. My dad was an engineer and a musician, and he knew how to demo that energy doesn't end, it transforms. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, not as a matter of faith (religious or otherwise), that mom is about to move on to something else. Life is the sidebar to the story, not the main story. I have no idea what that main story actually is, but everyone reading this will find out some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted October 12, 2014 Members Share Posted October 12, 2014 Oh Hells yes Craig! Freakin' rocks!! And what was that balderdash about not being a good acoustic guitar player? Fire breathin' electric work too!! Great song all the way around!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 12, 2014 Members Share Posted October 12, 2014 Nice tune Craig but I`m not satisfied with the bridge yet…. I didn`t read anyone else`s comments so forgive me if I`m redundant…. I completely get the vibe you`re going for here but I think you need to drop the acoustic vibe on the chorus and just let those electric guitars sing. Then drop them completely out on the second verse. Let the acoustic drive the tune in the 2nd verse with little leads sprinkled in leading into the second chorus. That lead lick in the beginning is something I want to hear more throughout the song so I would probably toss that in more if it were me.... Also, from an arrangement POV, the 2nd verse is twice as long as the 1st verse so I would actually reverse that. And that bridge… I would actually re-write that…. I`m hearing just an acoustic with a naked vocal and then slowly building it up and then a drop into the chorus with some synths. I hate "giving feedback" on stuff because I don`t want to give the impression that I dislike the tune because I actually like it a lot but I would change a considerable amount of it but I dig the overall vibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 12, 2014 Members Share Posted October 12, 2014 I forgot to mention…. I`m not sold on that acoustic guitar…. mic the real thing matey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted October 12, 2014 Members Share Posted October 12, 2014 Thanks Ken. My mom was admiitted to the hospital yesterday. I've been dealing with a variety of loose ends regarding her situation...she's 94 and had a good life, there are no unresolved issues between us, I saw her for an extended period of time over the summer and I talk with her every day. She doesn't want me to fly up there just yet but the time is gong to come very soon. The part that really hurts is she's suffering. She's mentally all there, so she's 100% aware of her situation. For the first time yesterday she said she wanted to die, and she said it again today. That's a tough one. I don't want to ask her to hang in there because that's for my benefit, not hers. But I can't bring myself to say yes, that's what she should do. There's no assisted suicide in New Jersey anyway. Her option is losing the will to live, which is proceeding. We don't get to choose when we're born, and we don't get to choose when we die unless we choose to die. More people die in the US from suicides than homicides, but rarely with the benefit of a safe environment and a medically certain option. As much as I don't want to let go of my mom - I'm the only one left in her family - she wants to go. It's tough. The one thing that makes it bearable is an experiment my father ran after he died that showed me something continues even after the physical body is no more. It's too complex to explain just now, but it was incontrovertible as it involved two other people who had no idea what we had discussed. I was never the same after that and never had the same attitude about death, either. My dad was an engineer and a musician, and he knew how to demo that energy doesn't end, it transforms. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, not as a matter of faith (religious or otherwise), that mom is about to move on to something else. Life is the sidebar to the story, not the main story. I have no idea what that main story actually is, but everyone reading this will find out some day. Craig man I'm so sorry. It's a burden all of us that love our parents have to bear I guess. My folks have been gone long time now. Dad at 58 and suddenly, Mom at 67 after 5 years gone completely mentally due to Dementia. That your Mom is lucid and speaking of wishing to leave this miserable ball is not an unreasonable response at her age. We get no choice upon entry to this side of existence, and by damn, we should have the right to exit on our own terms. When our bodies are failing us, and no remedy is available, we should be free to let our souls out of the cage. I totally get what your Father told you. Energy never dies. Nobody knows where it goes really. But it never, ever dies. That's what our thoughts and memories are comprised of. Energy. And what are we, if not the electrical recordings in our brains that life imprints. It took an avowed atheist to wake me up to this fact. If a particular dogma or belief system comforts someone at their individual crossroads, I have no problem with that whatsoever. however.. Physics takes over no matter what... Heaven? Depends on what you expect I suppose. A place where souls gather and interface,or maybe even merge into some kind of collective in a format no one can explain or understand until experienced....Much more likely. While I'd love to think I'd get to see all the loved ones who have already passed...Get to ask Jimi Hendrix if he saw me in the fourth row in the Sam Houston Coliseum...I think I'll just have to wait for all those answers. I hope that both you and your beloved Mother both get the peace and closure you both want. I think she must be one hell of a gal. She made and raised you..And you're one hell of a human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2014 I forgot to mention…. I`m not sold on that acoustic guitar…. mic the real thing matey! The latest version is a real acoustic, and miked using an AT condenser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2014 Craig man I'm so sorry. It's a burden all of us that love our parents have to bear I guess.. Thanks much for your kind, intelligent, and philosophical comments. Well said and much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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