Work/Life/Music Balance

[Mark L]

A few assumptions:

 

I'm assuming that most of you on here have full-time jobs, which would include commuting to and from work, thereby taking up a sizeable portion of your day

 

I'm also assuming that most of you have a family, which would inevitably place upon you demands for your time

 

So how much time do you have left to devote to music - whether that be creating it, performing it, writing about it or whatever? (Assuming my assumptions are correct)

 

My job is kind of full-time. I'm usually home before 5pm. I don't have any kids, and therefore have oodles of 'me' time. Trouble is, I have too much me time so it makes it less precious. And you know the old saying: if you want something doing, ask a busy person. And I have a 'love/hate' relationship with music-creation. I'm currently in hate mode, which is always accompanied by abject boredom

 

But hey, I digress. Give me your answers, folks

 

[Goober(s)]

I'm a musician

[Mark L]

I'm a musician

 

A full-time pro musician?

[MrKnobs]

I'm a full time musician now too. This did not happen because of my innate talent, nor am I starving. I'm retired from my day gig. This makes being a musician a lot more fun as I'm not constantly worrying about money. However, it has the downside that I'm OLD and a lot of musicians still think (perhaps correctly) that old people are disgusting!

 

Prior to that I always worked a day job that required less than my full attention so there was always room for music. I married a woman who didn't want kids and was a musician / soundperson herself. For the first year or so of our marriage we both ran sound and often only saw each other at 3AM after our various, separate gigs!

 

Your strategy depends only on how much you WANT to be a musician and how cool (or expendable) your wife and employer are.

 

Terry D.

[Notes_Norton]

I've been a full-time pro musician for all of my life - except for when I tried the 'straight life' and had a job and became a weekend warrior musician. The day job didn't work out (and I actually tried two of them).

 

I'm in a duo with my wife http://www.s-cats.com - when I met here she was in another band, and when both of our bands broke up, we got in another band together, and eventually a duo. So family is also music (but she plays guitar too so we need self-discipline to control GAS).

 

We both work on my other music business, writing aftermarket style disks and fake disks for Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com

 

So 100% of my life is devoted to music and 100% of my life is also devoted to family.

 

I happen to be a very lucky person.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Goober(s)]

 

A full-time pro musician?

 

 

I've never really done anything else

[WRGKMC]

I did the full time performing for 10 years. Then I got a full time job and raised a family. Now my kids are out on their own and I'm about 12 years away from retirement. I have plenty of time for music but I'm not currently working with many musicians. I'm burnt out on playing in bands and get together with some recording buddies every couple of weeks. I spend allot of time in the studio doing my own music.

 

Age is catching up with me. I spent a good deal of my youth burning that candles at both ends performing and do find it hard to muster the energy needed to get projects going, and my right shoulder is in pretty poor shape from wearing a guitar for 45 years. I always thought retirement might be great because I'd be able to devote my energy towards playing full time.

 

Two factors have made me rethink that. One of course is health. The second is having some money to retire on. My wife and I are in the process of buying a second home to rent. If the first goes well, we may add a second and third. Even if we wind up in an apartment we'll have some steady income coming in. I do have a retirement account but its not going to do much at this point. I was forced to switch jobs so many times there really wasn't much saved in those accounts so it really doesn't add much when you have to live off it.

 

In many ways I'm happy I didn't continue to play full time. I have many friends who have done that late into their 40's and are beginning to realize how short life really is. They don't even have anything put into social security because they never worked a full time job and had those deductions. I have other friends who were self employed doing construction work and they too are waking up to realize they haven't got anything stashed away, and as they age, they find it harder to do that work.

 

This is a common issue with many in our society now. As this next generation retires, its going to tough on allot of people, especially those who have never had to face any hardships in life.

[Notes_Norton]

I've been a musician all my life, I've claimed all my income, taken my lawful deductions, paid my taxes, and therefore have social security.

 

I'm of retirement age, but have no desire to retire. Why should I want to stop gigging? I love to play music, and playing for an audience is the most fun I can have with my clothes on.

 

I have absolutely no regrets for being a career musician.

 

Life indeed is short, and I certainly didn't want to spend most of my life climbing telephone poles or working in an office. Instead, I've had the opportunity to travel the world, meet famous musicians and be treated as a peer by them, had the opportunity for intimate encounters with many beautiful females, got to play exciting music with other very talented musicians, and they actually paid me for this experience

 

A wise person once said, "If you make a living doing what you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life." And other than those two day jobs I took while testing what the 'other side' was like, I've never worked a day in my life.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Vito Corleone]

It's like anything else with life: if you want it bad enough, you can find the time for it. I remember before we had kids thinking "our lives are so full right now, I don't know how we could find time to raise a kid properly." But, of course, we do. And now I look at people with 3 or 4 kids and think "there's NO WAY I could do THAT!". We won't be finding out, but I'm sure we'd rise to the occasion as necessary.

 

I played music full time for years, but now it's just an "Enhanced Hobby". We're a bit more than just a weekend hobby band, and it takes a lot of time and effort to keep it running smoothly, but it works out. My day job involves running my own business, so that's time consuming as well.

 

What makes it work well for me is having a super-supportive spouse. She's amazing and fully supports my musical endeavors and bends her schedule accordingly. I do the same for her passions as well.

 

Probably doesn't hurt that, among her circle of friends, she's the only one with a husband whose hobby actually BRINGS IN extra cash!

[Mark L]

 

I envy you guys

 

You seem driven

[Ernest Buckley]

Interesting topic Mark. I`m not really going to talk about "balancing life" because I think thats too subjective. However, I discovered that if I really want to do something, I`ll do it no matter what. I`ll make time for it or I`ll let other things fall. Its that simple. If I`m not completely committed to something, then its time to re-evaluate what I`m doing.

 

Just some thoughts for you….

 

I`ve also been in a major funk the last few years with writing. I have no desire to write anymore and my life is a lot easier now that I am no longer forcing myself to do something I apparently didn`t want to really do. I`m now ok with just writing when I`m feeling it. I`m ok with recording being a hobby. Yes, I`m a professional musician but I don`t pressure myself to be everything to everyone. I do what I do and I do it well.

 

A tremendous freedom came over me when I stopped pressuring myself to do or be things that weren`t coming naturally. Some may say I "gave up" my dream of being a professional singer-songwriter but the truth is I don`t enjoy performing and I don`t enjoy being the center of attention. I also don`t enjoy sitting down with paper and pencil and deliberately writing a song. If it happens, great but I don`t enjoy the process of making something out of nothing anymore.

 

These days I dedicate my energies to more practical matters: being a present father, supportive husband, enhancing my career in real estate sales/investments, and doing activities that I enjoy. I think this comes from being a bit older and realizing that time is limited and I don`t want to waste it on things I really don`t have complete passion for. My outlook on music has also changed in the last 4-5 years so that influenced my decision to set different goals for myself.

 

I used to put this crazy amount of stress of myself to be a professional songwriter/performer/producer. That was my goal for a good decade but I realized I wasn`t totally committed to it. There was a brief period of "mourning" or as a therapist might call "a requiem for a dream" but nonetheless, it was a sad but eventually joyous revelation. I no longer felt pressured to be someone or do something I wasn`t completely committed to.

 

Even now as I write this…. I`m on vacation in a beautiful beach house with my family. My guitar is sitting over there where I left it since we first got here with my book bag full of pens and paper just in case I feel inspired to write. In the past I would have forced myself to pick up that guitar and work on something while I was here on vacation. Today, I can take it or leave it. The guitar may stay in its case the entire time I`m here. I don`t feel pressured to write and I have no desire to. I rather spend my time this week reading, listening to music, enjoying the beach, and just relaxing. There is no longer pressure to do something I feel no passion towards.

 

Just some thoughts for you… maybe you are no longer fully committed to being a singer-songwriter. It`s ok. I spent way too much of my life trying to live up to someone else`s expectations of me. If you`re struggling, ask yourself who's expectations are you trying to live up to? If its someone else`s… screw it. If its your expectations, consider taking it easy on yourself and relaxing.

 

Maybe you just need to give yourself a break or maybe you aren`t really doing what you want to do but living out a life you think you should because someone told you years ago how talented you are and what a great writer you are. Whether its true or not doesn`t matter. What matters is, are you happy?

 

Allow yourself the freedom to put the music away and just do what interests you, even if that means watching TV and having a beer. I`m not saying you should waste your life away like that but its ok to relax and give yourself some time to come up with an alternative. What else interests you? Spend some time doing something else besides music. The creative life is a messy one so maybe you just need to clean up a bit and dig back in or perhaps you need to completely start over again.

 

I don`t believe the word we want is balance but rather inspired… we want to feel driven and we want to feel alive. Sometimes the only way to achieve those states of being is to put ourselves in vulnerable positions and admitting we don`t know what we want anymore.

[Gregory Frus]

Great responses here!! I work a day job full time....also working on changing that.

[Goober(s)]

I envy you guys

 

You seem driven

 

your own output, both in quantity and quality, shows that you are no less driven than the ones who do it professionally.

 

I really haven't heard anyone here who is your better.

[RockViolin]

I'm from a family of musicians. Never cool to be late for supper...unless you were practicing, or performing somewhere. "Music First."

 

I made my living as an orchestra player for about 20 years. String quartets and the like as well. I couldn't keep myself from my electric violin project during that time, though I always had the discipline to put it away for a while when duty called. As a servant of 2 masters though, there was precious little energy, or time, for many of the other things life can be about. Much of the orchestra would be partying after the show and I'd go home to my project. Always foregoing one thing or another, events, family get togethers, books, etc in order to take care of biz at the violin or in the studio. There was no balance.

 

It seems the shoe is on the other foot now.

[Ernest Buckley]

Always foregoing one thing or another, events, family get togethers, books, etc in order to take care of biz at the violin or in the studio. There was no balance.

 

Yeah, thats part of the reason I said I don`t think the word balance is really what Mark is seeking but inspiration. I remember hearing Gregg Bradden speaking about balance in life and he mentioned how it was sort of a myth. He used the metaphor of an object being completely balanced and how a balanced object cannot move forward. Similarly, a balanced life does not move forward. I think balance is counterproductive to art as well. Art is an act of creation, not stagnation.

 

Therefore, there is no balance between one`s art and one`s life. Something has to give.

 

 

[mister natural]

I come from the other side. Work full time(50+ hrs per week) and spend whatever spare time I can in my man-cave/studio. I have no illusions that I'm ever gonna "hit it big" with a top 40 song or whatever - I make music for ME. I do it because I need to and because I love making beautiful constructions of sound. It feels so good to complete and publish something that is just mine & mine alone. "Intercourse" anyone who says that I'm somehow not a true musician because I don't live & die by it.

It makes me happy & that's a cool thing :=)

 

peace

 

[Notes_Norton]

I wouldn't say you aren't a true musician. I would say you are an amateur musician. And I've heard some amateur musicians that can blow away a lot of the pros.

 

I'm a full-time pro, and I no longer have illusions of being a rock star. It almost happened to me once, but that was many years ago and the opportunity passed. I do make a decent living at it, and thoroughly enjoy my life.

 

Whether you are a musician or not, pro or amateur, it's important that you enjoy your life. I have a friend who is an engineer, and is as happy tinkering in a lab as I am on stage. He plays saxophone too, but engineering is his passion.

 

And some people cannot play music for a living. Once it becomes work, it takes the joy out of it for them. Fortunately that never happened to me. When I'm on stage playing, I'm both as young as I was playing at teen town, and as old as I may be some day. There is no space, there is no time, just the music which seems to flow through me more than it does from me. I can't think of a better life for me - YMMV.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Ernest Buckley]

I wouldn't say you aren't a true musician. I would say you are an amateur musician. And I've heard some amateur musicians that can blow away a lot of the pros.

 

I'm a full-time pro, and I no longer have illusions of being a rock star. It almost happened to me once, but that was many years ago and the opportunity passed. I do make a decent living at it, and thoroughly enjoy my life.

 

Whether you are a musician or not, pro or amateur, it's important that you enjoy your life. I have a friend who is an engineer, and is as happy tinkering in a lab as I am on stage. He plays saxophone too, but engineering is his passion.

 

And some people cannot play music for a living. Once it becomes work, it takes the joy out of it for them. Fortunately that never happened to me. When I'm on stage playing, I'm both as young as I was playing at teen town, and as old as I may be some day. There is no space, there is no time, just the music which seems to flow through me more than it does from me. I can't think of a better life for me - YMMV.

 

 

I feel like you`re writing about me… here I am now 25 years into a music career and I don`t enjoy it anymore.

 

I always wanted to make music as far back as I could remember but the last few years have been a really slow burn. I`m slowly walking away from it. I`ve been selling real estate for the last ten years on and off but now I`m looking to make the move within the next year to full time work. I`m debating what to do with the music at that point.

 

I`ve been very fortunate in my life to do something I love but I`m at the point now where I feel like I`m depriving myself and others of the joy that should come from music. I no longer make it out of joy. Its a job. I`m good at it and I can fake it pretty good… I`m talking about passion. I know how awful that sounds but the truth is you get to a point where you can perform with passion and not really mean it. I suppose thats going to happen when you perform tens of thousands of times… I`m not proud of that but its where I am. I was talking to a friend of mine last week over dinner about this exact thing… this idea of pretending passion… I thought it was just me but apparently its not, he does the same thing.

 

I`m past burnt out, I`m past the stage of taking a few days off.

 

This past week while on vacation it all became very obvious to me… I had my guitar but never touched it. Never took it out of the case. Even tonight… I was looking at the case and the first thought was, "I`m gonna get rid of that." I`m not saying this is a bad thing, life ebbs and flows… I`m just not in the music making mood of late and perhaps its a passing thing but I haven`t written a lick in at least a year. I`ve been working on other projects for other people which seems to be where my interests lie but I separate my studio work from the work that actually pays the bills. Sometimes I wonder if I would get sick of studio work if that was the primary income… (?)

 

I guess what I`m getting at is I know whats behind the curtain and the magic is gone. I still listen to lots of music and I enjoy it but when it comes to actually working on something of my own or work related, I`m bored. Listeners deserve better, so do I.

[Etienne Rambert]

I'm in the gumbo trade. There is no room for life or balance if you want to make it big in the world of gumbo.Ask the pros. And I am a pro. No life. No balance. There is only the gumbo. Roux, vegetables, stock, meat, seasoning. It's no life for ninnies.

 

If you pick up the wooden spoon, you'd best be ready to stir, or the gumbo Gods will smite you down.

[Mark L]

 

I know what you mean, Ernest. It's like I've had a 30+ years' relationship with songwriting and now it's coming to an end. But it's worse than a divorce - I feel like I'm in mourning

 

The last song I wrote was written because I felt obliged to write something. And it shows. It's not very good

 

Oh well, I've had a good innings

 

Looks like Craig's the next player in....

[RockViolin]

Balance schmalance. But ya do gotta go with the flow. I think it's sorta normal to hit some lengthy doldrums and feel like, "That's it. The magic is gone. It's over between us." I don't think it has to be that way.

If you enjoy writing songs because you enjoy writing songs...she'll swing back around.

 

Ernest, I've taken some gear on almost every vacation I've had in the last 25 years. It almost always just sits there.. It's a 'just in case', not a 'must do' or even a 'hopefully'.

 

I've read that roughly a third of the songs on iTunes have been listened to once, if that. Several million songs. I'm sure at least a few of them are worthy of more ears than that. The world's chock full of music, or what passes for it, and for a while I didn't think humanity deserved any more music... and it was bone dry around here. Then one day I was looking at my kid and I'm wondering what he did to deserve all that hate. And I'm rollin, 800lb gorilla and all.

 

Don't be chasin them butterflies!

 

[MrKnobs]

 

But hey, I digress. Give me your answers, folks

 

One of the most important conversations I've ever had in my life happened when I was so drunk I felt I had to hold on to a table even though I was sitting in a chair.

 

I had just played a large benefit show (HIV / AIDS) and we'd had an exceptionally good night, despite the fact our opening act was (in my opinion) far better than us. We kept the dance floor filled and we were so popular that dozens of people bought me drinks and thereby put me in the state I was in clutching the table.

 

As it happened Monte Montomery's manager was in the house and she sat down to talk to me. I'll include both parts of her advice as it was some of the best advice that I've ever received as a musician and might benefit others reading here. Only the second half is germane to Mark's question. Let's call the manager M as she might not want her name here.

 

M said (roughly).. "Terry. I have some advice you might find useful, take it or leave it. Obviously you're pretty drunk right now so the first bit of advice is about that. If you're in a popular band expect fans to offer to buy you drinks. The way to deal with this without being rude to the fans is to tell the bartender before the show that whenever someone other than yourself orders a drink for you, to make it without alcohol. Then you can drink them all, make people feel happy, and you'll just be well hydrated not holding on to a table while the room spins."

 

"Second... you guys did some things right and some things wrong tonight. You learned from the opening act's mistake of pushing their merch too hard at a benefit and yet managed to sell yours. You saw her get booed so when you pushed your merch you offered to donate half the proceeds to the benefit charity and got applause. Well done. Another thing that worked for you was your sneaky use of a drum machine that wasn't really a drum machine, as it included recorded backing tracks for bass, keys, and even a little faint backup vocals if I heard correctly. You killed because here people wanted to dance and the opening act was great but just two guitars vs your drums and bass. You couldn't compete with the opener in her own game, so you played yours. In a different venue you'd have been booed out of the club for that stunt. Like I said, well done but be careful."

 

(at this point my singer Julie had sat down with us)

 

M continued... "But what I really want to ask you is the most important question for any artist: Do you really want this? Do you want to be successful, rock star or whatever you want to call it?"

 

Julie immediately replied "Yes!" as I remained silent, still struggling with the table.

 

M said, "OK, now for the real question. What PART of this do you want?"

 

Julie instantly responded, "All of it!"

 

M said, "Not so fast. There are many parts to it. Do you want the fame, the attention, the drugs, the sex, the travel, the "family," the songwriting, the performing, the recording, the money.. what part do you want?"

 

Julie didn't hesitate. She said, "Attention."

 

I was instantly sober. Well, less drunk. I'd had no idea what my partner wanted at her core, what drove her to work hard, to play these crappy shoes in nasty bars, I guess I'd assumed we both felt the same. I was wrong. Something important had just been said.

 

M looked at me and said, "I already knew Julie's answer. This conversation was for you." And with that she stood up and left without another word.

 

I thought about that conversation for days afterwards. Julie's answer explained every thing she did, every disagreement we'd had, every choice she'd made that seemed inexplicable to me before. I was doing it for different reasons. I didn't care one bit about attention, I wanted to write songs and record albums, create something complex and beautiful that thousands of people would hear and be impressed by. Two different sorts of ego, I guess. Julie would always be happy playing live for a few bucks at litttle dives with 20 people yelling her name.

 

So Mark (if you've read this far), think about what M said. What PART of this do you really want? Which parts are you FORCING yourself to do because you think you SHOULD like them or because you think you HAVE to do them to get the parts you DO want?

 

Have a good think on that and then just do what puts a smile on your soul and the few things you REALLY have to do in order to get the part you want.

 

Terry D.

 

 

 

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

This thread is getting very interesting.

 

We are all so different (no surprise here).

 

Sometimes I get tired of schlepping the gear, but I never get tired of performing in front of a live audience. Sometimes I get tired of the endless job of being the band salesman, but I never get tired of gigging. It's truly the most fun I can have with my clothes on.

 

I'm in my 60s and have never been burned out playing music. Even if they ask me to play "Yakety Sax" for the millionth time (my least favorite request), once the music starts, I'm into it. The music starts, I'm immediately transported to that place where there is no space or time, and the passion is there.

 

I did try two day gigs in my life. It wasn't due to music burnout, but more of a combination of curiosity on how the rest of the world lives and societal pressures (become a fine, productive, citizen). I was a phone installer/repairman for a while and a Cable TV systems Engineer for a while, but kept my music going on the weekends.

 

I would have made a lot more money as an engineer, and had many more benefits as a phone man, but I didn't feel right doing those jobs. I missed the music too much, and playing in weekend warrior bands wasn't doing it for me. The caliber of musicians in the weekend bands was just not what I was used to playing with. It was like trading in a Ferrari for a Minivan.

 

I realized that being a musician is not what I do, instead it is what I am.

 

Oh, it's definitely not for everybody. There are no paid sick days (I haven't missed a day of work since 1964), no paid holidays, no company contributed retirement plans, you pay 15% self-employment tax in addition to your income tax, there is no job security, and the hours are different from the 'normal' world.

 

But for me, it's something I absolutely, positively have to do. If I don't play music, there is a big hole in my life. I make music almost every day of the year, and I wouldn't want it any other day. As long as I can fog a mirror, I'll be playing, and as long as I can find an audience, I'll be gigging.

 

Insights and incites by Notes.

 

 

 

[Ernest Buckley]

Balance schmalance. But ya do gotta go with the flow. I think it's sorta normal to hit some lengthy doldrums and feel like, "That's it. The magic is gone. It's over between us." I don't think it has to be that way.

If you enjoy writing songs because you enjoy writing songs...she'll swing back around.

 

Ernest, I've taken some gear on almost every vacation I've had in the last 25 years. It almost always just sits there.. It's a 'just in case', not a 'must do' or even a 'hopefully'.

 

Well, thats the thing. I no longer find writing enjoyable. I don`t enjoy playing the guitar anymore either. When this funk first started, I thought it was a passing phase but its been several years now, at least 3. I`ve opened up more in this thread that I have in years because I feel like it can no longer be something I deny about myself. I do enjoy the production side more these days and thats where I`ve been putting my efforts in the studio.

 

I respect the songwriting/recording process too much to fake it so I`ve decided to bow out for the present. I do have an album about 90% complete that I`m dragging my feet on because I`m not feeling anything anymore… if I could muster up the energy & focus for a good two weeks, I could probably finish it but I really don`t want to force it which is what it would be.

 

The topic is about balance and thats probably the contradiction in all this… my life is pretty balanced, maybe too much for a creative life. It seems when things are the most screwed up, when the emotional imbalance is running rampant that the creative juices are flowing. I`m not saying that works for everyone but for me it seems to ring true. I`m not complaining though… just rolling with it. Flowing gently down the stream.

 

[RockViolin]

 

Well, thats the thing. I no longer find writing enjoyable. I don`t enjoy playing the guitar anymore either. When this funk first started, I thought it was a passing phase but its been several years now, at least 3. I`ve opened up more in this thread that I have in years because I feel like it can no longer be something I deny about myself. I do enjoy the production side more these days and thats where I`ve been putting my efforts in the studio.

 

I respect the songwriting/recording process too much to fake it so I`ve decided to bow out for the present. I do have an album about 90% complete that I`m dragging my feet on because I`m not feeling anything anymore… if I could muster up the energy & focus for a good two weeks, I could probably finish it but I really don`t want to force it which is what it would be.

 

The topic is about balance and thats probably the contradiction in all this… my life is pretty balanced, maybe too much for a creative life. It seems when things are the most screwed up, when the emotional imbalance is running rampant that the creative juices are flowing. I`m not saying that works for everyone but for me it seems to ring true. I`m not complaining though… just rolling with it. Flowing gently down the stream.

 

Well, I think that right down at the very bottom, there's a reason, maybe a few of them as to why your jets have cooled. I'm sure you given it a lot of thought so...I won't pry.

 

Richard Strauss didn't write a thing after WWII. He was a composer in caps and bold. Stopped cold. He still conducted some, but that was that.

 

As for balance, I suppose it takes all types. Gustav Mahler needed to hermit out in an out building to write. No tolerance for interruptions, or even chirping birds. Maybe not so very balanced. Dvorak would sit at the kitchen table and write, pots and pans banging, children running around the table.

 

On further thought, I had a certain balance happening for a while. I paid the bills as a classical musician, mostly, and I had my project-my alter ego I suppose. My musical life seemed complete, and I really think that one kept me from getting burned out on the other. I had something to come home to other than a TV, or a bottle...unlike quite a few of my colleagues. There's no shortage of burned out and depressed peeps in the orchestra player biz.

 

I could take leave of said project and go to work playing Beethoven and not just play the music, my part in the music. I could also learn from the Masters and follow the bass, or the percussion (till demands from my own part might narrow my focus, anyway). That seemed like balance.

 

Somewhere along the way, after I was injured, push came to shove... I realized just how much of something I love had been ripped away. I have a totally different mindset from someone who has chosen to stop. I'm salvaging what I have left. And it seems like a worthy pursuit. Misanthropy somewhat quelled as well, I'm feeling rather galvanized.