Filmscore question: make a track sound like a recording coming from record player.

[gspin]

This is probably very basic, so my apologies. I am trying to make several tracks (in a classical/chamber vein) sound as if they are coming from an (old vinyl) record player in a character's room for a film.

Any suggestions as to EQ, placement and overall mix? I have "Vinyl" but is there other software that can subtly make the music sound like it being played by a record player?

Many thanks in advance.

gspin

[RoadRanger]

Do you really want vinyl or something more vintage sounding?

[gspin]

Good question. The character is a man probably in his early eighties. Maybe the record player is one from the 70s or so.

[gspin]

... so what type of records might he be playing? Not sure it is vitally important for the story, but assume he is a classical music lover who has a pretty good old collection... Thanks

[blue2blue]

Something conducted by Leonard Bernstein or George Szell, maybe a piano work performed by Glenn Gould or Bernstein or Van Cliburn or one of the other era stars. (But licensing might well be too expensive. You could probably substitute some classical music from a music library for next to nothing. I mean, if budget is an issue.)

 

With regard to the stereo, no need to make it sound old-timey or lo fi. Even working class folks often had pretty decent stereos in the 70s. It was the era of the hi fi component stereo, which became popular when Vietnam war-era veterans brought them back to the States or bought them at crazy low prices in stateside PX's.

 

Still, nice stereos were expensive compared to electronics today. It was just something that people felt they ought to have if they liked music. There was also less to spend your money on back then. No computers, no video games. No premium cable channels. Just ad-driven TV, movies and music.

 

If anything it was FAR more likely that someone's stereo back then would sound great vis a vis the boombox or entertainment center consumer crap most folks have these days.

 

 

With regard to sound, of course, you're probably going to roll off the bass but also the treble some and you may want to introduce some very subtle, small room reverb to match the onscreen ambience expectations.

 

[rasputin1963]

Well, then there's THIS: Audioease SPEAKERPHONE is a vst plugin whose sole function is to make it sound like your audio is coming out of different things: TV's, old and new; radios, cellphones, Tannoys, bullhorns, etc. I used it on a recent theatrical project when they needed my little musical jingle to sound as if it were coming from a 1950's TV set.

 

http://www.audioease.com/Pages/Speak...akerphone.html

 

Then you run that treated audio through a 3D Audio vst like WaveArts PANORAMA to perfectly place that audio source in a particular 3D "place" onstage or onscreen. They're using a lot of 3D audio in film & TV these days--- a telephone will diegetically ring, and I could swear it's ringing behind my left shoulder--- and this is with ordinary L-R speakers (ie., not a 5.1 setup). Amazing.

 

http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/panorama/

 

Et voilà.

[WRGKMC]

In film the sounds are in relation to the voices in the film.

If the voice sounds like its in the room and not all plush sounding, its usually

better to make the stereo sound like its being played within that room, and not as a soundtrack to a movie which may be higher fidelity.

 

Movie mixing is much different than mixing for an album because different screen shots and angles may have the sound levels, reflectivity

and a whole number of items change. If you are having the camera follow that person around that room, you will even have the sound get

bigger or smaller as the actor moves around.

 

My choice would be to actually play the album in that room if its possible and record the sound from where that actor is located

for the most natural sound. Otherwise adding the correct ambiance and reflectivity is a big key to solve.

If the room is a kitchen, you'd have more reflectivity over a living room with couches. If the sound is traveling down the hall

it has mostly reflectivity etc.

 

Getting that part wrong can have dire consequences. Again, using the voice in the shots is key to setting up the music.

Unless its a scene with loud music and the actors yelling over it, it may be a shot that starts out louder and have more fidelity

when the album is first put on. It may then be cranked down below the voices so as not to detract from the actors.

 

Unless you follow every edit and know all of these special conditions, its pretty much impossible to guess what

might be best for the scene which can consist of any number of shots and angles. As the viewers angle changes

within a shot, the sound may or may not change within that room.

 

As far as EQing it goes, you may even have to ride/automate the EQ reverb and volume as someone gets closer or further from the music.

In many ways sound requires the same perspective changes film using light or paintings showing depth perception. Things in the distance appear smaller

up close larger. The trick is doing it while leaving the voices carry the front because they can change just as much depending on the shot.

 

You want to see how its done badly, there's an endless number of really bad movies from the 60's and 70's where canned background music and even theme

music has such poor mixing. It doesn't even help the worse acting that goes on, especially many of the foreign films that have English dubbed in.

[Dilrod]

^^^ Thanks for a really interesting and informative post.

[RockViolin]

 

Getting that part wrong can have dire consequences.

 

You want to see how its done badly, there's an endless number of really bad movies from the 60's and 70's where canned background music and even theme

music has such poor mixing. It doesn't even help the worse acting that goes on, especially many of the foreign films that have English dubbed in.

 

There's a scene in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou where they're down by the river and a choir is there singing, but what I hear is a choir in a rather live room/church. It's a popular movie, so I suppose the consequences weren't too dire- it just always bugs me. I have a hard enough time getting sucked in as it is.

 

[eflatminor]

If you already have the ability to add clicks and pops with 'Vinyl', then I would focus on EQ and compression. A stereo system, especially one from the 70s will sound somewhat pinched...or 'honky' compared to live music. I would start by boosting the 1.5kHz range ever so slightly and reducing frequencies below 400Hz. You might cut a bit above 2kHz as well. I wouldn't add much in the way of compression unless you're trying to really bring the sound of the stereo forward. More realistically, 70s stereos had corner speakers (often horn loaded). You'd get a wide spread with without the razor sharp soundstaging today's top hifis can produce...more of a wide mono. Anyway, if you add compression, I've stick with a ratio of 4:1 and keep it light. Lastly, if you can add a touch of distortion...I mean a tiny bit...that might help make it sound more realistic.

[WRGKMC]

There was an old Actor named James Whitmore who had a story about one of his roles in one of those old Film Nior Movies

called the Asphalt Jungle. It was the first time he had acted for John Houston, one of the great Directors of that time.

 

James had rehearsed his part to perfection being given only a small part in the film during the opening scenes, where a gangster

comes into the restaurant, Gives Whitmore a gun to hide a gun luncheonette's cash register just before the police enter and book

the drifter as a vagrant.

 

They had filmed the scene several times and Houston asks Whitmore, What if you were to turn that radio up real loud, do you think

you could speak your part over that. Whitmore not realizing what the final effect would be until the film had been released.

He laughingly said Houston cleverly hoodwinked him. The dam radio was so loud you could barely hear the part I had rehearsed

for weeks over all that noise.

 

I guess Houston knew what he was doing because the film got 4 Academy Award Nominations.

 

The key to my bringing this up is. if you want the music to sounds most natural, like its in the room with the actors, play the music

in that room when the actors are acting. The mic for the film will do the rest of the EQing making it sound right within the context of the film.

You even get the sound dampened as people walk in front of the speakers as they move past the viewer. Those kinds of things are hard to

recreate in a studio if you haven't been exposed to them for a long time.