Members Tedster Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 I reckon it's about time for me to join one of these. Not that anything will ever come of my music, but... It seems like in the old days, it was a catch 22...you had to have written music which was being broadcast (or whatever) to join. But, they wouldn't have broadcast your music anyway unless you were a member. Nowadays, with the internet, you can count that as a "performance" and hence join. I remember a talk from a BMI guy years ago...of course, he was pointing out the advantages to joining BMI over ASCAP. I'm sure if the talk had been from an ASCAP guy, it would have been just the other way around. But, For those of you who have dealt with these, which, in your opinion, is the better, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Tedster I reckon it's about time for me to join one of these. Not that anything will ever come of my music, but...It seems like in the old days, it was a catch 22...you had to have written music which was being broadcast (or whatever) to join. But, they wouldn't have broadcast your music anyway unless you were a member. Nowadays, with the internet, you can count that as a "performance" and hence join. I remember a talk from a BMI guy years ago...of course, he was pointing out the advantages to joining BMI over ASCAP. I'm sure if the talk had been from an ASCAP guy, it would have been just the other way around. But, For those of you who have dealt with these, which, in your opinion, is the better, and why? Ted, flip a coin. It's really six of one, half dozen of the other. I've been with ASCAP for several years, both as a writer and publisher.My suggestion is to speak the your local rep for both and get a feel for them & go with ever one you are comfortable with doing business with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Honestly, I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference at this point. I think they both do a fine job and I've rarely heard anybody complain about either of them. I think there are some specialty areas where one or the other is said to have an advantage... such as selling soundtrack music... but for just registering your tunes for airplay, etc. it doesn't make a whole lotta difference. I'm with ASCAP, for whatever that's worth, and have been for a long time... no complaints. I'm sure I'd be saying the same if I'd gone with BMI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 I joined BMI because people I wrote with were in BMI. I'm happy with BMI, for what it's worth ... not that I have anything bad to say about ASCAP. Either one should do the trick. Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 One of the things that I notice in surveying their websites is "Members only" support things, y'know, log in and gain access to notes from seminars, stuff like that. I'll just toss it around a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ani Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Get the best of both worlds... Register as a writer with one agency and as a publisher or producer with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Can you do that? I think they're pretty mutually exclusive...(shrug)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ani Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Tedster Can you do that? I think they're pretty mutually exclusive...(shrug)... I haven't read the contracts during the more recent years, but several years ago when I signed on with ASCAP; I had a BMI publisher/producer express interest in some of my works. When I told him that I was under an exclusive contract with ASCAP he told me that it didn't matter. Turns out that he was registered as a publisher with ASCAP and as a producer with BMI. When I discussed the situation with my contacts/coaches at NSA, I was informed that there were several workable combinations to get around the exclusivity in contracts when it came to licensing agencies. Collaboration between two or more individuals belonging to separate licensing agencies opened the door to all agencies subscribed to by contributing members of the effort ... for instance: If an ASCAP songwriter connected with a BMI composer and, in collaborative efforts, wrote a song together; the team would be able to contract with a publishing company licensed by either agency. I was told that many songwriting teams deliberately had one partner signed to ASCAP and the other signed to BMI or SESAC to keep their options open; allowing them to pitch songs to either side of the fence without complications. The way it was explained to me is that... you can be listed with more than one agency as long as you are not trying to register the same type business with both agencies, or all three (SESAC) In otherwords, you cannot be listed as a writer with ASCAP and BMI at the same time, but you can be listed as a writer with one agency and as a publisher or producer with the other. I'm pretty tired tonight, and it's somewhat hard to write all of this out to where it makes sense.... but, as far as I know the practice has been used for years and it helps to broaden the scope for those not wanting to get stuck into the groove of isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UnderTheGroove Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Like the previous replies, I've always been under the impression that it really doesn't make much of a difference. I joined ASCAP because some people I was working with at the time were members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 All good stuff...thanks. And Ani [Johnny Carson voice]I did not know that...[/Johnny Carson voice] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LiveMusic Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Hiya Tedster, first question is why join? What do you think joining will do for you at this point in your career? Answering that is a bit squirrelly, haha, as I keep asking it myself. So far, no need for me to join. In three months, maybe it'll be time. I think a lot of people join because they feel more important or something. Nothing wrong with that! You get torn down plenty, so, anything to boost the old ego is a plus! If I were ready, I'm leaning towards ASCAP. I've read a zillion posts about this for a long time. Doesn't seem to be a big difference. But again, it's moot unless they can do something for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 There are a lot of good reasons to join ASCAP or BMI. The process takes a little bit of time, and once you start recording your songs, even if you're just releasing them independently, you never know what opportunities for airplay you might fall into and most legit stations are going to require that you be registered. For instance Valky was soliciting material for NPR, and you must be registered with ASCAP or BMI to get that airplay. Even some Internet stations require it. I don't understand why anybody wouldn't join, considering it's free and why wouldn't you open up a potential income stream? If ANYbody wants to air your recording, use it in an ad, or cover your song, if you're not registered they can't pay you. There are other benefits too if you're so inclined... the performing rights societies have seminars, networking events and local representatives who may be able to help you sell your songs. You can get discounts on insurance and other goodies. There's a lot of stuff they offer that most people probably don't bother taking advantage of. Again, it's free to join, and I don't understand why anybody who writes songs wouldn't join, unless you never plan on recording them and you don't think anyone else ever would cover them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 What Lee said. Really has nothing to do with "feeling important" (NTTAWWT). Joining BMI or ASCAP won't make my songs good enough to get airplay, but, if someone somewhere thought one was good enough FOR airplay, seeing that it was properly licensed or whatever might be the extra added little "straw on the camel's back" to get them to give it a spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fantasticsound Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 ASCAP is a client of ours. Guess that's as good a reason as I need to go that way. Oh, Ted, don't forget she's registered with ASCAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted July 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Ahhh...(swoon) "Making Believe" that Emmylou loved me... (sigh).... Oh, I just noticed James Burton in the background in that pic. Was that from the same gig your avatar was taken from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geekgurl Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Geoff Grace I joined BMI because people I wrote with were in BMI.I'm happy with BMI, for what it's worth ... not that I have anything bad to say about ASCAP.Either one should do the trick.Best,Geoff Yeah, this is pretty much why I'm with BMI too. Not that it has mattered much (for me ... my music partner has actually seen real money from his past works), but like Lee said, it's free to affiliate and you just may have an opportunity to license material you otherwise wouldn't get, so you may as well just go with one or the other ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LiveMusic Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Tedster Really has nothing to do with "feeling important" (NTTAWWT). I hope I didn't offend you. I have no idea what NTTAWWT means. I'm a fan of yours. I didn't mean YOU. "Feeling important" was also a poor choice of words... "give credibility" is a better phrase. Anyway, I've asked and MANY people have asked this same question on forums and I've read countless answers and consensus seemed to me to be that there isn't any need for many people. The problem is, it's a fairly significant decision. You could flip a coin, some people say that. But you also might want to check them out in person and that takes time. Then, it's a pretty major deal to change if you want to change. Hence, doing it in the first place is not a casual affair. So, if you think it's time, I'm not far behind you, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fantasticsound Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Tedster Ahhh...(swoon) "Making Believe" that Emmylou loved me... (sigh).... Oh, I just noticed James Burton in the background in that pic. Was that from the same gig your avatar was taken from? Yes sir! As were these: And, of course, the avatar - Unfortunately, I didn't get any decent pics of the piano player or drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ani Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Anyway, I've asked and MANY people have asked this same question on forums and I've read countless answers and consensus seemed to me to be that there isn't any need for many people. The problem is, it's a fairly significant decision. You could flip a coin, some people say that. But you also might want to check them out in person and that takes time. Then, it's a pretty major deal to change if you want to change. Hence, doing it in the first place is not a casual affair. Duke, The only ones that would NOT need to be affiliated with a licensing agency are those that do not care if they ever receive commercial airplay, and whether they get compensated for the very same. AFAIK, Commercial stations will usually buy blanket licenses from all three licensing agencies that cover whatever music they want to play. The station then provides the licensing agencies with set lists of their program. Fees are determined and distributed to members whose songs are included in the line-up for airplay according to the set list. If there are tunes included in the set list that have no affiliation to any of the agencies; the agencies exempts the song from distribution of funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted July 29, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by LiveMusic I hope I didn't offend you. I have no idea what NTTAWWT means. I'm a fan of yours. I didn't mean YOU. "Feeling important" was also a poor choice of words... "give credibility" is a better phrase. Anyway, I've asked and MANY people have asked this same question on forums and I've read countless answers and consensus seemed to me to be that there isn't any need for many people. The problem is, it's a fairly significant decision. You could flip a coin, some people say that. But you also might want to check them out in person and that takes time. Then, it's a pretty major deal to change if you want to change. Hence, doing it in the first place is not a casual affair. So, if you think it's time, I'm not far behind you, go for it. Oh, hey, Duke, this thread got buried. No worries, mate... NTTAWWT means "not that there's anything wrong with that". And Neil, how come Rodney Crowell's pic is in black and white? And I still love that Blue Kentucky Girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted July 29, 2005 Members Share Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by Geoff Grace I joined BMI because people I wrote with were in BMI. Me too. I'm happy with BMI, for what it's worth ... not that I have anything bad to say about ASCAP.Either one should do the trick. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted July 29, 2005 Members Share Posted July 29, 2005 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fantasticsound Posted July 29, 2005 Members Share Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by Tedster ...And Neil, how come Rodney Crowell's pic is in black and white?And I still love that Blue Kentucky Girl. All the pics I posted online were taken with a Nikon Coolpix775. It's infuriating to shoot with but I can't afford a digital SLR. The limitations of the camera cause problems that sometimes can be covered without major Photoshop'ing by simply making the pic a sepia or B&W shot, digitally. I like to shoot B&W film, too, but in the digital everything starts out as full color and is reduced to B&W in the computer. B&W looked ok for that pic. In color it was a throw-away, IMO. Thanks for asking, Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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