Members Anderton Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 So I got an email from a Mac mail order company selling 1GB USB 2 memory sticks for $20. Yup, $20 (after mail in rebate). Now, the memory chips aren't that big, so suppose a manufacturer put 10 of them in a USB-friendly box and sold it for $199.99. You have 10GB of solid-state memory. Okay, next step: Windows Vista, which lets you use that memory stick as a RAM drive. So you do your recording to it and all of a sudden, you don't care that your laptop doesn't have a screaming fast hard drive because everything's being done in RAM. Could be fun, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 60hurts Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 I'm a dolt. I thought flash memory was kind of slow to read and write to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MitchG Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 I'm a huge fan of a move toward solid-state memory. My new portable stereo recording rig uses a preamp to a converter to a TASCAM HD-P2, which records to compactflash cards. It's totally silent. Tomorrow night I'm taking it to a church to record my classical guitar playing. Since it's totally silent, I can set it right next to me while playing and recording. Then I bring the rig home (under one arm), pop the CF card into a USB reader on my Mac, and dump the contents into Pro Tools. Works like a charm! No hard drive crashes, tiny, lightweight, easy. I'm dreaming of the day when the cards will be big enough to function directly as a drive as you describe. You can get 8GB cards, but they're still a bit pricey. Or if USB sticks make it to market first, I'm fine with that, too! Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 60hurts Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by 60hurts I'm a dolt. I thought flash memory was kind of slow to read and write to. I guess not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Mitch Gallagher is in the house! Hey Mitch, IT'S TIME YOU RELEASED SOME MUSIC...yeah, I know, who am I to talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted May 4, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by MitchG I'm a huge fan of a move toward solid-state memory. My new portable stereo recording rig uses a preamp to a converter to a TASCAM HD-P2, which records to compactflash cards. It's totally silent. Does this suggest that the front end on the HD-P2 isn't worthy? And how much noise does your previous recorder make? I've never had anything less portable than an Ampex MM-1100 make too much noise to use to record a concert. I think that a flash card recorder is a good idea if you're willing to "do the maintenance" and clear out the memory so you can re-use it. At $20 for a gigabyte, you're right back around the cost of 1/4" tape. We never thought to erase a reel of tape the next day after making a recording, so maybe we're almost there. When I can afford media to record for a whole weekend, maybe I'll be ready to do more than a one-off concert on memory cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by MitchG I'm dreaming of the day when the cards will be big enough to function directly as a drive as you describe. You can get 8GB cards, but they're still a bit pricey. Let me ask you something. Remember when an 8GB hard drive cost over $200?Remember when a 128 *MEGABYTE* hard drive cost that much? Yeah, it's only a matter of when...And it'll be great. Computers will be lighter, quieter and cooler. On a similarly-related issue, a few months ago I changed the Zip drive on my Akai MPC2000XL to a multicard reader and bought a 512MB CF card...it's like this memory comes out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted May 4, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by elsongs Let me ask you something. Remember when an 8GB hard drive cost over $200? Remember when a 128 *MEGABYTE* hard drive cost that much? I remember my first 10 MB hard drive, to upgrade my PC clone to an XT clone. It cost $400. The 8086 (yeah, I was really on top of it in those days) with 256 KB of RAM and a Hercules clone monochrome graphics and two 360K floppy disks cost a grand. And I did a lot of field recordings with a $3,000 Nagra, too - but that was someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by MikeRivers I've never had anything less portable than an Ampex MM-1100 make too much noise to use to record a concert. A "concert", maybe. But a solo performance in a church on voice or acoustic guitar, or piano? Of course you're better off with something that has no transport noise or other mechanical sounds. Why would anyone want more noise when less is now more and more commonly available? And yes, Mike... people commonly do erase and re-use non-analog media. There's no degradation... no one even used a hard drive or Flash RAM until it "wore too thin to record", to the best of my knowledge. - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Craig, I can remember you writing about RAM disks years and yers ago... and IMO, that WILL be sweet when the prices have dropped low enough to make SS memory viable for recording purposes. I just got a flyer in the mail the other day myself - they had 2 GB flash drives for aroud $40. The prices are dropping, and that's a beautiful thing. Stick 10 of those in a case, and you have 20 GB of SS memory / storage for under $400. Heck, I can remember when my first 20MB HDD cost me several times that amount... (Yeah, I'm old. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MitchG Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by MikeRivers Does this suggest that the front end on the HD-P2 isn't worthy?And how much noise does your previous recorder make? I've never had anything less portable than an Ampex MM-1100 make too much noise to use to record a concert. I think that a flash card recorder is a good idea if you're willing to "do the maintenance" and clear out the memory so you can re-use it. Not at all; I think the HD-P2 sounds very good by itself. I've been very happy with that recorder. But I have a couple of preamps that I particularly like -- Millennia HV3 and M2B -- for this application. And I really like the sound of my Universal Audio 2192 converter for acoustic music...though I just received a Benchmark ADC1 that is also wonderful. For years all my systems have been computer-based, so there has been fan and drive noise. For something as quiet as classical guitar, it's an issue. I operate the recorder, etc., myself, so I like having it sitting on a little table right next to me, I can just drop one hand down and operate everything. I'm not recording concert-length recordings with it at this point. Instead I'm capturing a number of takes of one song at a time, then picking the best. I dump to hard drive in the computer, back-up to a removable drive (and later to optical disc), then erase the CF card in the computer. Takes just a few seconds. It works for me! Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MitchG Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by elsongs Let me ask you something. Remember when an 8GB hard drive cost over $200? Remember when a 128 *MEGABYTE* hard drive cost that much? My first hard drive was 32MB; I believe I paid over $500 for it...but then, I also remember typing in punch cards. Not that I'm THAT old! Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MitchG Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by Anderton Hey Mitch, IT'S TIME YOU RELEASED SOME MUSIC...yeah, I know, who am I to talk... I'm working on it! And, yeah, who are you to talk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 > That's brilliant!! So obvious I would never have thought of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 I'm waiting for somebody to make decent multitrack flashcard recorder. It's the silent and portable aspect that I want the most. My ideal would have digital inputs, for my choice of preamps and converters. Firewire or USB2 to get the files out. 8 tracks or more. The hardware is actually here now - just needs somebody to put them together. I expect capacities to increase, but i'd be happy with 10 minutes record time for 8 tracks at 24/44.1 for immediate use. If it had a simple digital mixer and headphones for tracking purposes, that would be ideal. I could track guitars and drums together, or take a guide track to my favorite piano and multitrack it with zero setup time, or reamp a natural location reverb, or a zillion other things that would be so useful right now. Existing technology makes noise, which requires long cables, and remote control and all sorts of unnecessary inconvenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MitchG Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by Kiwiburger Firewire or USB2 to get the files out. I was using the FireWire port on the HD-P2 for transfers, but it's actually more convenient to just pop the card out and use a card reader on the computer than to carry the recorder in, hook up the cable, power up the HD-P2, tell it to switch to FireWire drive mode, wait for the drive to mount, etc. I expect capacities to increase, but i'd be happy with 10 minutes record time for 8 tracks at 24/44.1 for immediate use. You should be able to get that and more on a 2GB card, which is readily available. A 4 or 8GB card will (obviously) give you much more than that. 24-bit/44.1kHz only requires 7.5MB per track minute, if I remember correctly. I'd love to have an 8-track version of the HD-P2!! Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted May 4, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by MitchG For years all my systems have been computer-based, so there has been fan and drive noise. For something as quiet as classical guitar, it's an issue. I operate the recorder, etc., myself, so I like having it sitting on a little table right next to me, I can just drop one hand down and operate everything. Kids these days! (though I know you're not that much younger than I) I, too, would be hesitant to use a computer in the same room (much less on stage with me) to record an acoustic music program, particularly one with an audience. But I've never had an ambient noise problem with a DAT, Minidisk, cassette, or properly threaded reel-to-reel recorder. I'm not recording concert-length recordings with it at this point. Instead I'm capturing a number of takes of one song at a time, then picking the best. I dump to hard drive in the computer, back-up to a removable drive (and later to optical disc), then erase the CF card in the computer. Takes just a few seconds.My more frequent scenario is recording at a festival where I'm also mixing the PA and doing it all day with barely a break to pee. There just isn't enough time or brain cells to do one more thing like recycling the memory cards during the course of the day. It would have been really cool if Frontier had jumped on my suggestion and given the HD-P2 enough smarts to stream to a disk drive connected ot the Firewire port. But then I suppose that would be the moving part that makes the noise that want to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 I'll repost a post I made recently Hard drive's days are numberedEmail Print Normal font Large font March 23, 2006 - 12:34PM Samsung Electronics says it has developed a new data storage medium for mobile computers that enables users to process data much faster with minimal consumption of power. The 32-Gigabyte (GB) NAND flash-based solid state disk (SSD) can upload and download data quickly and quietly as it uses instantly-accessible, static NAND flash memory instead of the rotating discs found in hard drives. SSD weighs only half as much as a hard drive, reads data three times faster and writes data 1.5 times quicker, it said. It consumes a mere five per cent of the electricity needed to power a hard disk drive and operates silently as it requires no motor or any other noise-making parts. Samsung unveiled a landmark laptop installed with SSD at its annual Mobile Solution Forum that took place in Taipei on Tuesday, the company said. It marked the first time that NAND flash chips, which are usually used in small devices such as digital cameras and MP3 players, have been applied to a mobile computer, it added. "Flash memory will fast replace hard disks in all mobile computing applications," Hwang was quoted by the Korea Herald as saying at the forum. Hwang said that by 2008, laptops equipped with SSD will account for 30 per cent of the global laptop market as the price of a 32-gigabyte SSD will fall from the current $US500 to $US200 in that space of time. The global SSD market will surge from $US540 million in 2006 to $US4.5 billion by 2010, Samsung said. AFP cheersjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 > Like I've been doing with my DigiTech GNX-4 now for over a year Well, not the 24-bit part, but I've used the solid-state recorder in there to record narration in a whisper-quiet studio, then I bounce the file over to my computer for final video/audio editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by Jeff da Weasel A "concert", maybe. But a solo performance in a church on voice or acoustic guitar, or piano? Of course you're better off with something that has no transport noise or other mechanical sounds. Why would anyone want more noise when less is now more and more commonly available? And yes, Mike... people commonly do erase and re-use non-analog media. There's no degradation... no one even used a hard drive or Flash RAM until it "wore too thin to record", to the best of my knowledge. - Jeff Well, the terminology is different, but hard disks do wear out. They spec it as mean time between failure. Like CDs, hard drives are NOT permanent storage. They only store stuff for now until you get an even bigger hard drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted May 4, 2006 Members Share Posted May 4, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer Like CDs, hard drives are NOT permanent storage. Absolutely correct. But in terms of "re-recordability", hard drives sure kick ass on 2" tape. - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 You mean I'm supposed to use different reels of tape for each project? I've just been using the same three or four reels over and over for the past 27 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted May 6, 2006 Members Share Posted May 6, 2006 OT justa say hi to Mitch! I had a limping Fostex 4 track, an HR 16, and my trusty GP-8. Not yet G.A.S. I think I went to Sweetwater for some cables and got to talkin. I left with an Adat! LOL. Later, the tracks just weren't poppin. Ahhh, dbx 166, my first compressor! Then came all the questions. And more gear. Mitch, you were always so cool to take the time to hang and listen to what must have been crazy mixes and really dumb questions. I'd mention I was playing under the beer tent and invite you to check it out and there you'd be. I sure have enjoyed the process and hopefully have learned a lot. I think I have So what does the ice cream truck play on your side of town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted May 6, 2006 Members Share Posted May 6, 2006 P.S. The ice cream truck comment hails from another thread that I started which you may have been fortunate enough to have missed. And the thing prolly doesn't get away with cluttering the air space around Sweetwater much anyway I should think! Congrats on your new position and return to Sweetwater! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted May 6, 2006 Members Share Posted May 6, 2006 but then, I also remember typing in punch cards. Not that I'm THAT old! Mitch I remember when the internet was just in black and white: you "fingered" someone's "home page" and got a text message... I remember when I was about 7 going with my cousin to the local college and typing forever on a punch card reader with some primitive pseudo-Turtle/COBOL language, *just to make an ASCII printout of the Enterprise*. BECAUSE, there weren't any CRT terminals. The line printer was your "monitor".... From what I know, presently a lot of solid state memory devices (the USB jobbies) have a limited number of read/write cycles... whereas it's not a big deal for mundane storage, it could be an issue when trying to use one as a "main drive", shuffling large files repeatedly... AT THE SAME TIME, I'm sure the government has all sorts of solid state memory devices that are orders of magnitude beyond what we can buy now, and are probably keeping it out of circulation... Seems like for over a decade there's press releases about "holographic storage breakthroughs" and other storage approaches - yielding orders of magnitude greater storage - that somehow evaporates into the Media Noise Floor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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