Jump to content

Camcorder info needed


Recommended Posts

  • Members

My old (Hitachi) tape camcorder just gave up, and I need to replace it. I know NOTHING about the new formats, and need suggestions on a solid replacement. Just 2 musts:

 

1) format type (digital or dvd): must have an analog out.

2) $$ range: up to $800

 

If you have or know of a unit that at least has those criteria, I need suggestions, and any features that you're willing to share. Going to a NASCAR event in June and need a decent 'corder.

 

Thanks, Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'd avoid the DVD types, and go with good ol' reliable miniDV tape.

 

Word on the street is that Sony camcorders are the most reliable, but I'm a big Panasonic fan. I've been using Panasonic camcorders since 2000 and they've always stood up under, shall we say, difficult environmental conditions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Paully,

 

I make my living as a network television director/technical director. You mention your budget is $800 which pretty much limits you to a single chip camera; Craig is correct - in that price range MiniDV is the way to go and chances are the camera you buy will have both firewire and analog outputs.

 

What is the purpose of the end product? Are you shooting for personal archival, or do you have commercial aspirations for your footage? Also, what is the nature of the NASCAR event in June that you're attending? (I've written several books on NASCAR racing and attended many events on media credentials for TV/publishing purposes).

 

~Blackbelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'd recommend the Canon Optura 50. It has full manual controls for video and audio. Plus, it has a good 16:9 widescreen mode, a top loading cassette, and optical image stabilization. It's a really good bang for the buck. Most importantly, the price leaves money for more gear! The Rode NTG-2 mic/shockmount kit with a 701RC Bogen/Manfrotto tripod would make nice accessories. [EDIT] Oh you'll need one of these adapters for the Rode NTG-2. Other accessories: an extra battery, camcorder case, and perhaps a wide angle and/or telephoto lens. There I just spent all your money! You're welcome ...

 

 

Come on, trust your techno lust. :cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I bought a Sony DCR-TR7000 in 2000. I know it is old by todays standards but there are some cool things about it.

 

It works with 8mm tape and IS DIGITAL but what is real cool is that you can get old ANALOG 8mm recordings to play on it and send them directly with the built in FIREWIRE to your computer. I like the 8mm format because it is very inexpensive.

 

The only thing that has given me trouble, with this camera, over the past 6 years, is one of the batteries. (I'm guessing that I used up the re-charges? because the LCD light flashes endlessly when this battery is in the camera.)

 

Other than that, the camera works great.

 

Since I only paid $800 for it new, you may find a few of these very cheap on Ebay.

 

I'm hoping that my next camera will be the Sony HD !!!

 

Dan

 

http://musicinit.com/pvideos.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by techristian

The only thing that has given me trouble, with this camera, over the past 6 years, is one of the batteries. (I'm guessing that I used up the re-charges? because the LCD light flashes endlessly when this battery is in the camera.)

 

 

Dan,

 

Is that a NiCad battery? NiCads are infamous for building up a "memory" over time. You have to totally drain them before every recharge in order to minimize the problem. That's why everyone's gone to the Lithium-ion batteries now instead. They're less susceptible to memory build-up. There's no 'set amount' of charges in a battery, the cells simply build up memory or weaken as time goes by.

 

For a replacement, try

 

At Batt or E-batts.

 

~Blackbelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

After alot of research the Panasonic cosumer level GS series works best for me. I got the GS 31. I tried several DV cameras and the thing that stuck out to me was the user controls were laid out very well where you can almost operate it with one hand. The second thing I observed was the focus and zoom was very responsive. Low light conditions were better than others. I looked at Sony, Samsung, Hitachi, and Cannon. I used to own a 8mm Cannon it worked great. I just didnt like their DV cameras. You know the best thing is to go down and try it for your self and make the determination. Unless you really need it I wouldn't get into HD. The cost to make it work is not worth it right now. The pluses of DV good quality picture, lightweight compact package, and fast to tranfer digital video.

 

The good thing about DV is you can save it to the VCR, Set top DVDR recorder or go through 1394 firewire port on your PC. The differences:

VCR=Analog only no edit save to VHS.

DVDR= Digital no edit or limited edit save to DVDR.

PC= Requires 1394 firewire can edit save to DVDR

There is nothing wrong with any of these method you just need to consider what is right for you. If you just want to dump the video to DVD you can get a set top DVDR recorder and that will acomplish this. If you want to edit video then PC is the way to go.

 

PC video editing is NOT for everyone. Reason why I say to TRY it is the editing process can be time consuming to some. The positive aspect is you end up with a more profesional video of only what you want to save. After you get the camera you might want to try download the video to a PC. You can usually pick up a demo non linear video editing program online that will help you to see how editing works. Mind you you need a descent PC(1.5ghz+ typically). Requirements vary from program to program. I recommend sticking with the consumer level editing programs as the learning curve isn't as steep.

 

FYI I edit my video with Sony Vegas Movie Studio+DVD Platinum. I have tried several programs and this worked for me and didn't crash my computer. It has everthing you need to get your video onto DVD. I use a Pioneer DVDR drive in my PC to record my video. I use Verbatim DVD-R media has best reliability and compatibility.

 

I mostly learned about it talkig to other people who have experience in DV and researched the web. Just google "NLE" or "digital video editing" and there is a ton of sites with info.

 

I don't mean to scare you away. The DV is the way to go. I found the editing really fun and easier than what we were doing before. Old method was to stop and start the camcoder and VCR while trying mix background music and record this to VHS. It turned out OK but it was definitly a crude way of doing it.

Hope this helps you and good luck dude :thu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Blackbelt1

Paully,


I make my living as a network television director/technical director. You mention your budget is $800 which pretty much limits you to a single chip camera; Craig is correct - in that price range MiniDV is the way to go and chances are the camera you buy will have both firewire and analog outputs.


What is the purpose of the end product? Are you shooting for personal archival, or do you have commercial aspirations for your footage? Also, what is the nature of the NASCAR event in June that you're attending? (I've written several books on NASCAR racing and attended many events on media credentials for TV/publishing purposes).


~Blackbelt

 

Hey Blackbelt,

 

do you have any recommendations in the 2k - 3k range?

 

I've been looking at the Sony PD-170, but it seems a little long in the tooth and in need of a refresh (PD-190?)

 

The Panasonic AG-DVC30 looks pretty spiffy, but I don't much about it. From a distance, though, it looks pretty cool. (lighter than the 170, I believe and a bigger zoom).

 

I don't think I'm interested in the DVX-100b because I hear it's complicated to use and I'm something of a dullard.

 

The Canon stuff doesn't float my boat. No real reason, just not into it.

 

I know that Sony has been coming out with a series of HD models, and at this time, I'm not really interested in HD unless the camcorder also happens to be the sweet spot for SD which is how I'd probably use it for the next couple of years.

 

Anyway, if you have any suggestions, thoughts, feedback, for a handy camcorder in this range, I'd truly appreciate it.

 

TIA

 

and

 

PLB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by Brittanylips


Hey Blackbelt,


do you have any recommendations in the 2k - 3k range?

 

I bought a Canon XL1-s about 5 years ago, for the purposes of shooting small local projects to fill in the gaps when I'm not traveling. I can also use it to screw around with some film-making ideas when I have time. I built a PC with 300 gigs of harddrive space and a couple of large studio monitors to edit with, and I'm using Adobe Premier Pro, After FX, and Boris Red. It's suitable for corporate videos, training materials, and local television commercials. I've made some elements to use in NFL broadcasts with it as well, and burned them to a DVD to take to the TV truck with me. I've used the Canon to shoot a few concerts here and there too...NO, I DON'T DO WEDDINGS. :D

 

Ultimately you'll have to decide what features speak to you. I looked at Sonys, JVC's, Panasonics, and the Canon stuff. My reasons for going with the XL1-s were that it has interchangeable lenses, has optical stabilization versus digital, a 16:1 optical lens versus the 10:1 or 12:1 lenses others had, and the overall color reproduction outperformed the competition in my price range.

 

Since then, Sony has released the PD170 and the VX2100 while Canon has the GL2 and XL2 out. And then there's the Panasonic HD stuff.

 

If I were buying today I would personally demo each camera and base my results on ergonomics (I need a camera on my shoulder, I can't stand skimpy "palm" cameras) and comfort, picture quality, ease of use, and the upgrade path. For my purposes if I were buying in today's market I would consider HD to be a "must have" whereas you may never need it. Firewire is a given, as are some analog outputs. Audio is another factor. I'd like a camera with XLR inputs (my Canon has them, but I had to buy a shoulder adapter to get that feature) and also consider them to be a "must have." I don't personally need a pop-out LCD screen - those do nothing for me. HTH

 

Regards,

 

~Blackbelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I second the Optura 50, it was the lowest priced camcorder I found with audio controls.

 

Pretty good for a starter camera.

 

I have the Final Cut Pro Suite, but i also use the iLife apps for quick and dirty work.

 

:cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

:wave: Thanks for the info, guys. Two problems.

 

1) You all know what you're talking about and have great suggestions. I'm an idiot that knows nothing beyond charging the battery, sticking a video tape in and pressing 'go'. Man, things have changed. :(

 

2) I'd love to go 'brick and mortar' shopping, but the only place around here is Circuit City, and they only listed one camcorder on their site (plus too many 'sales-dudes').

 

Blackbelt: Just personal stuff. I'm going to a Winston Cup race at Dover International Speedway on 6/4 and again in September. It would be nice to have something that has enough memory to shoot for an hour without installing new memory chips, etc. That's why I'm leaning toward a DVD or tape-based unit. Problem is, I don't even know what kind of tapes these things use. Digital would be super if I can get enough memory into it to shoot for a while. I have a Canon Powershot still camera, and love it.. with the exception of the flash. Great resolution and color. I'm comfy with the Canon brand.

 

Craig: What is miniDV tape, and does it look like it may be around in the future?

 

Jollibug: The Canon Optura 50 looks sweet, and may be the frontrunner at this point. If it's easy to use, takes tape, and can be dumped to standard VCR video tape, that's all I need. My old Hitachi had a 12:1 lens. I don't know the default close-up ratio for the Canon, but I'd probably go for a more powerful closeup lens if it's not at least 12:1. Is that available? Any additional info would be much appreciated. I'm going to try to find the Optura locally and look it over. B-H is apparenty right in NYC, so that's a quick hop.

 

Computer editing isn't really 'in the mix' at this point, although I've got enough computer related crap to be able to jump right in on either platform. If anyone knows why the Optura wouldn't be a nice choice, PLEASE dial in!!

 

Again, thanks for all the help.

 

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Blackbelt1

If I were buying today I would personally demo each camera and base my results on ergonomics (I need a camera on my shoulder, I can't stand skimpy "palm" cameras) and comfort, picture quality, ease of use, and the upgrade path. For my purposes if I were buying in today's market I would consider HD to be a "must have" whereas you may never need it. Firewire is a given, as are some analog outputs. Audio is another factor. I'd like a camera with XLR inputs (my Canon has them, but I had to buy a shoulder adapter to get that feature) and also consider them to be a "must have." I don't personally need a pop-out LCD screen - those do nothing for me. HTH


Regards,


~Blackbelt

 

Thanks.

 

I hear you on the ergonomics and know I should make a trip to a decent store and feel these things out.

 

As far as HD, I have nothing against it as a feature, but because of the storage required to edit it, and the fact that world is still fairly SD, I think I'll be sticking with SD for the next 2-ish years. However, maybe a good HD camcorder will give me what I want in SD plus future proofing.

 

XLRs would be nice too.

 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

 

-plb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Paully

What is miniDV tape, and does it look like it may be around in the future?




Computer editing isn't really 'in the mix' at this point, although I've got enough computer related crap to be able to jump right in on either platform. If anyone knows why the Optura wouldn't be a nice choice, PLEASE dial in!!

 

 

MiniDV tape has been around for a while now and is readily available. You can buy it at Radio Shack, Sams Club, some Wal-Marts, etc. It's just a tad smaller than an 8mm tape...about the size of DAT tape. It's a digital medium, so you're basically recording 1's and 0's on the tape. For what you're after, the MiniDV format sounds like the ticket.

 

Regarding editing, there is a free video editor built into Windows XP. It's nothing fancy but it will give you some basic cuts and effects, and let you post the final directly to a web service, a CD, or your hard drive. It's found in the Accessories section, and it's called Windows Movie Maker. Your MiniDV camcorder, a firewire port and cable, and Windows Movie Maker are about all you need for basic editing and production.

 

~Blackbelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by Blackbelt1


... Your MiniDV camcorder, a firewire port and cable, and Windows Movie Maker are about all you need for basic editing and production...


~Blackbelt

Hey Blackbelt,

 

LOL!! Funny you mention that. I have XP Home Version, and the box has tons of USB jacks, but to save a little $$ I bought it without the 1EEE port. I don't do music on it, so who knew. :cry:

I do have a well-appointed Mac w/firewire for music, so that's probably where any editing would be done.

 

I'm definately (mabee) going to go with Canon and the tape format, but have already raised the bar to the Optura 500. It has the capability to do time code and a couple of other features. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Paully

I have XP Home Version, and the box has tons of USB jacks, but to save a little $$ I bought it without the 1EEE port. I don't do music on it, so who knew.

 

 

Paul,

 

You can add a firewire port to your PC for less than $20 if you want to go that route. It's very simple. Just get one of these:

 

PCI 1394 Firewire Card

 

~Blackbelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The Optura 50 has a 10x optical zoom. You could also buy an optional telephoto lens if you need more magnification. It also has analog out, so you can easily make copies of your video on VHS tape, the quality of the dub will depend on your VCR.

 

If you want to make higher quality DVD dubs, without going thru the computer, check out Sony's DVDirect burners. It's a stand alone, you can record directly thru the camcorder or dub it after the fact from your MiniDV tape. Panasonic also makes stand alone DVD burners.

 

Sony's DVDirect works with or without a computer.

 

* the main reason you want to record onto MiniDV tape first then dub to VHS or DVD is because MiniDV is a higher quality format.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

OK. A little weekend research. And... 2 contenders in the 2 to 3 k range:

 

Panasonic Pro AG-DVC30 3-CCD MiniDV Camcorder w/16x Optical Zoom, around 2k. optional XLR input adapter ($250). Standard def.

 

Sony HVR-A1U, around 2.5k Uses a newly-developed 3 megapixel CMOS chip that (reportedly) rivals 3 chips but takes up less overall space. only 10X zoom though. Includes XLR inputs. Hi Def.

 

Ergonomics...

 

Mouth feel...

 

Flip a coin?

 

-peace, love, and blips

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Brittanylips

OK. A little weekend research. And... 2 contenders in the 2 to 3 k range:


Panasonic Pro AG-DVC30 3-CCD MiniDV Camcorder w/16x Optical Zoom, around 2k. optional XLR input adapter ($250). Standard def.


Sony HVR-A1U, around 2.5k Uses a newly-developed 3 megapixel CMOS chip that (reportedly) rivals 3 chips but takes up less overall space. only 10X zoom though. Includes XLR inputs. Hi Def.

 

 

Well, of the two I'd prefer the Panasonic over the Sony. I say this having done nothing more than read articles on these two cameras; I haven't shouldered either one nor seen actual video from them.

 

I'm more comfortable staying on the dull edge of technology when it comes to monumental changes, such as going from a proven 3-chip approach to a single CMOS chip. I'd let the CMOS technology get a few generations down the road before I bought into it. Also the Sony has a really poorly placed tape elevator. Mount it on a tripod or jib and then try to easily change tapes. The Sony also uses a touch screen menu system - but the touch screen is the LCD. So you'd have to use a stylus or put one of those protective PDA plastic covers over it to avoid fingerprints.

 

The Panasonic give you optical stabilization and a 16:1 lens. My only beef with it is that it does 16x9 but not in HD (like my Canon).

 

 

~Blackbelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by jollibug

The Optura 50 has a 10x optical zoom. You could also buy an optional (lens) if you need more magnification.

Hey Jollybug,

 

It's "ol' dummy" again, and he's got a stupid question. BTW, thanks for the info. I've already decided to upgrade to the Optura 500 for specific features, and have looked at the optional lens.

 

Here's the stupid question. If the standard magnification is 10:1, and I add the new lens, does that increase the overall magnification to 15:1 (10 x 1.5)? Also, is it a swapout, or do the two lenses button together and work in conjunction? 15:1 would be ideal, and I'll still come in at under $800.

 

Paul

 

PS: this could very easilly turn into a new hobby, and I CAN'T afford that.. in time or money! :D :D :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Paully

Here's the stupid question. If the standard magnification is 10:1, and I add the new lens, does that increase the overall magnification to 15:1 (10 x 1.5)?

 

 

Paul,

 

You'd basically be buying a gizmo that higher-end lenses have built in. On pro lenses, it's called an extender and can be invoked with a lever on the lens. On large studio cameras like you'd see at a football game, the extender control sits on one of the pan arms.

 

With your camcorder, the extender would be in a fixed position, so whether you need it or not it would be in place. Extenders (or in this case, the add on for your camcorder) do 3 things to your video: 1) they let you get a little closer to your subject {in this case, yes 15:1} 2) they let less light into the lens, so your video is darker 3) they lower the overall resolution of your video to the point that at full telephoto you'd be unhappy with the results. You'll find that there really isn't a dramatic difference between 10:1 and 15:1 anyway; I'd save the $130 myself and not purchase the extender. YMMV

 

~Blackbelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Originally posted by Paully

... decided to upgrade to the Optura 500 for specific features

Blackbelt went over the pros/cons of the telephoto lens pretty well. I just want to make sure you're going for the Optura 50 not the Optura 500 which has been discontinued.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Brittanylips

Sony HVR-A1U, around 2.5k

I really, really like the A1U it's built by Sony's Professional Broadcast division not the consumer division, so you're getting a totally different animal than you're normal camcorder. And you know it currently has a US$500 rebate, right?

 

It's big unforgivable, unpardonnable sin is the bottom loading tape mechanism, somebody was asleep at the wheel on that one.

 

But, if you don't mind that, and you can handle the HDV workflow, it will give you better looking video than any regular SD camcorder in the same price range. The main thing about HDV is it's all 16:9 widescreen, it takes longer to process the higher resolution images, and drop outs though rare, can be more disastrous since they'll go for several frames instead of one or two on a regular SD camcorder.

 

The Panasonic DVC30 is a great workhorse of a camera, and I love it, especially for event work, but the A1U has a lot going for it, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Originally posted by jollibug

I just want to make sure you're going for the Optura
50
not the Optura
500
which has been discontinued.

Hey jollibug,

 

Thanks (to all) for the info. I ordered the Optura 500 this morning. It still carries the full warranty, AND a great close-out price. Nix on the close-up lens. ;) . Now comes "the learning curve for dummies" . Wish me luck. :(

 

Best, Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by Blackbelt1

You'll find that there really isn't a dramatic difference between 10:1 and 15:1 anyway

 

Thanks, Blackbelt, for all your useful feedback.

 

A question about this -

 

Are you saying that a zoom that's 16X (the panasonic) is not all that much better than a zoom that's 10X (the sony)?

 

Are the numbers misleading? Is a 16X zoom not over one and a half times more powerful than a 10X zoom?

 

TIA,

 

-PLB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...