Members chipmcdonald Posted December 14, 2006 Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 I'm doing this Christmas benefit thingy at a local theatre for a crowd of about 400 or so. http://www.12bandsofchristmas.com/ (somewhere on there there's a sample of it (warning: *I did not ... oversee the mix arrangement...* (there's stuff in there that wasn't supposed to be in there, etc..)) Each year 12 local bands are picked, they each do a Christmas song, it goes on the cd, then they have to play it at the show the night before Christmas eve. So this year I decided "hey, I'll do "Jimi does Silent Night with a Floyd-like middle morphing into Queen"... Which went ok, sort of rushed, not really like I wanted it, but "whatever"... Then, I get this idea "hey, I'll get a bunch of my friends to play at the live show for the "orchestra" part of the pseudo-Queen bit... So, I've got about a 9 piece band that will be playing into a closing section featuring about.... 25+ guitar players.... I'm rehearsing some at my office on a weeknight, just rehearsed the "band" tonight, having it all together saturday... It's really weird, because that many guitar parts behaves differently mix-wise in "real life" than recorded. I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to arrange things on stage, because the Generic Mystery Sound Company Engineer will have to know how to balance things, and he's not going to really have a lot of time to get it sussed out... So, I'm thinking I'll have the "Band" miced like normal: drums, keyboards, bass, myself on "Guitar 1", plus two other electric guitar players and a guy on acoustic... Then, I've got a group of about 4 guys that will be playing the more technical "frilly" ornamented bits with over the top when the "orchestra" part of the tune happens, plus all of the other guys playing what is more or less 3 part baroque harmony... So, I'm thinking I'll group them in groups of 3 SATB voices, and have the sound man stick a mic in front of them (as if they're a section), and then assign a "mix level" hierarchy for each group (group 1 a bit louder than 2, etc.)... As it is, the logistics of it is very... unnerving (the 25 "orchestra" guys have to wait behind a curtain until a piano segue happens.. curtain pulls back... I count them in...). I can imagine somebody forgetting their amp is on 10 from last weeks gig.. or someone mistuning, someone's cable shorting an making a "unnnnrrrhhhhh' noise from behind the curtain, or... or... ahhhg... Sometimes I long to just sit at Border's Books and play whatever. Anyhow... if anyone here has done anything like this and had any epiphanic insights they found surprising I'd love to hear it now (before the 23rd...)... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted December 14, 2006 Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Good luck! You`re a brave soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted December 14, 2006 Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Beyond brave. Did Glenn Branca start with Christmas carols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bruce Swedien Posted December 14, 2006 Members Share Posted December 14, 2006 Originally posted by chipmcdonald I'm doing this Christmas benefit thingy at a local theatre for a crowd of about 400 or so. http://www.12bandsofchristmas.com/ (somewhere on there there's a sample of it (warning: *I did not ... oversee the mix arrangement...* (there's stuff in there that wasn't supposed to be in there, etc..)) Each year 12 local bands are picked, they each do a Christmas song, it goes on the cd, then they have to play it at the show the night before Christmas eve. So this year I decided "hey, I'll do "Jimi does Silent Night with a Floyd-like middle morphing into Queen"... Which went ok, sort of rushed, not really like I wanted it, but "whatever"... Then, I get this idea "hey, I'll get a bunch of my friends to play at the live show for the "orchestra" part of the pseudo-Queen bit... So, I've got about a 9 piece band that will be playing into a closing section featuring about.... 25+ guitar players.... I'm rehearsing some at my office on a weeknight, just rehearsed the "band" tonight, having it all together saturday... It's really weird, because that many guitar parts behaves differently mix-wise in "real life" than recorded. I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to arrange things on stage, because the Generic Mystery Sound Company Engineer will have to know how to balance things, and he's not going to really have a lot of time to get it sussed out... So, I'm thinking I'll have the "Band" miced like normal: drums, keyboards, bass, myself on "Guitar 1", plus two other electric guitar players and a guy on acoustic... Then, I've got a group of about 4 guys that will be playing the more technical "frilly" ornamented bits with over the top when the "orchestra" part of the tune happens, plus all of the other guys playing what is more or less 3 part baroque harmony... So, I'm thinking I'll group them in groups of 3 SATB voices, and have the sound man stick a mic in front of them (as if they're a section), and then assign a "mix level" hierarchy for each group (group 1 a bit louder than 2, etc.)... As it is, the logistics of it is very... unnerving (the 25 "orchestra" guys have to wait behind a curtain until a piano segue happens.. curtain pulls back... I count them in...). I can imagine somebody forgetting their amp is on 10 from last weeks gig.. or someone mistuning, someone's cable shorting an making a "unnnnrrrhhhhh' noise from behind the curtain, or... or... ahhhg... Sometimes I long to just sit at Border's Books and play whatever. Anyhow... if anyone here has done anything like this and had any epiphanic insights they found surprising I'd love to hear it now (before the 23rd...)... Thanks Chip...... Don't worry, you'll do great! The fact that you are nervous about it already is a good sign. If you have to take a nervous pee 5 minutes before the show, that will mean it will be fantastic!!! Don't worry, be happy!!! Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted December 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2006 Originally posted by Bruce Swedien Chip......If you have to take a nervous pee 5 minutes before the show, that will mean it will be fantastic!!!: That means it will be doubly fantastico if I take a nervous pee 5 minutes *into* the show, right? No....? (seriously) Thanks for the encouragement, Bruce! / sleep would be easier not thinking about how to interface with an unknown soundman about how to mix this // when sleep does come, it seems to involved herding 30 guitar-playing cats with Wal-Mart power strips...? Huh? /// most worried about how to visually count it off; traditional orchestra counting apparently confuses the rock and roll contingent. A 3/4 count with 3 fingers on my right hand means the pick might fly out of my hand; on my left hand means I risk not getting it back around the neck onto the fingerboard on the downbeat. Fun. //// the rest of the acts on the show seem very... trucullently anxious to see if this works. ///// ....gah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted December 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2006 To anyone: I essentially have a "simplified" (sort of...) 3 part arrangement; About 20 guys doing (basically)SATB voices on guitar; A little "Honor Guarde" group of about 4 or 5 doing a bit of counterpoint frilly ornamentation; A 9-piece band with 3 more guitar players doing the SATB bits, keyboards and bass; 1 guy on a Rickenbacker 12 string doing an 8th note arpeggio accent; Maybe 3 guys just strumming the changes on acoustic; A guy playing a kit; Maybe 4 guys doing "pseudo-tympani rolls" on floor toms/crash (123,12 BADDABOOM(crash) etc) ... and me. So I'm thinking: The band guys will be miced normally, since we're doing an original first. The SATB guys I'll group in 3 part sections; each section will get a mic? The "Auxilliary First Chair Dudes" get miced up individually, since their parts need to be a bit on top at points; The "drum line" maybe a distant mic? I tell the soundman (regional sound company, 450 seat 30's vintage restored theatre) to mix the band up front, the Auxilliary guys about equal, and then to "blend in" the distant mics of the SATB sections? Should I bother thinking about stereo panning coming off the stage? If I make a mirror-image pair on stage of the SATB people, do I arrange it by sections? Or should I do a classical symphony L>R arrangement on stage? Should they be bunched up, or spread out? It's been curious hearing how a LOT of guitars blend differently in a room than the way they do in the recorded medium... Then there's the logistics of how I bring them onstage based on the arrangement, then there's this and that and the other many things..... I can stay awake until next year next saturday, right? / oh yeah, it's Christmas time, isn't it? Sigh........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted December 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 16, 2006 ... oh yeah, and one guy playing a triangle on 1. Somebody told me "more cowbell" but I figured "more triangle" might be better for "Silent Night". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted January 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 5, 2007 Ok, keep in mind there was basically no rehearsal for the band. There was a 1 minute or so line check; the soundman had a Digi Venue, which seemed to make him very sure that was sufficient... (uhg) The tune starts at 6:00 in; 11:35 in, curtain goes up on 35 additional guitar players... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=976650307733665077&q=chip+mcdonald The last minute decision to change the intro to a little solo bit without having practiced the changes with the keyboard player was dumb on my part. Seemed like it would be fun at the time... Uhg. The intonation was a little sketchy on the first few measures; but it seemed to even out.... the "line check" was the only opportunity I had to try to get people to alter their levels so the arrangement would sound right, but it sounds like through the house the top voice wasn't loud enough.. and you can't really hear the counter point bits at all... uhg... I guess it went ok...? However, one of the coolest things to happen at a gig I'm happy to have caught on tape for this occurs at 7:47 in: a firetruck goes by outside while doing the soft "intro" bit, and it was fun quoting the firetruck siren after it happens... / probably should have done something simpler// it's obvious who the boyfriend of the videographer was/// It's cool to have so many friends willing to do something a bit daring with basically no rehearsal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members awfulcase Posted January 5, 2007 Members Share Posted January 5, 2007 Well, you're the man behind the whole thing, so naturally you're harder on yourself than you should be. I bet it sounded awesome in the audience. wow, 35 guitar players, quite a feat. Congrats! PS: The video has little audio dropouts, I don't know if it's the video or just my computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted January 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2007 Originally posted by awfulcase Well, you're the man behind the whole thing, so naturally you're harder on yourself than you should be. I bet it sounded awesome in the audience. I *think* it sounded cool on stage, but I'm not sure because I had food poisoning and wasn't... fully in the building. 35+5, bass guitar, keyboards, drums... sounds "different" in front of you than a recording. What I do remember is thinking "wow, I've been in front of/in classical orchestras before, but this sounds more forceful..". I wish I hadn't been sick. It just seems the balance was weird on the video, and I'm presuming the video reflects what the audience heard for the most part. Uhg. I know the balance on the first song/original was farked up; the sound guy just had the acoustic guitar cranked and the mix compressed into "automatic".... I at least expected to hear myself then, but "oh well". It's kind of like "does it matter trying to do stuff when more than likely it's going to get mucked up in the end, anyhow?". PS: The video has little audio dropouts, I don't know if it's the video or just my computer. Yeah, and right at one of the SATB "zippy and fun" parts, too. I'm getting the DV tape from the guy next week I think... Funny where his computer decided to glitch. Thanks for the comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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