Does my new switchmaster have a "plywood" top?

[axelsam]

Hi:

 

I just ordered a Gibson ES-5 Switchmaster. In the description, it states that the top is "high-grade" maple. I did some reserach on the Switchmaster, and the older ones were made with a maple plywood.

I'm just wondering if this "high-grade" maple is plywood. I know they

use plywood instead of spruce because of feedback issues, but I don't know if my new guitar will be made with it. Also, is laminated top

a euphemism for plywood? Any help would be appreciated.

[blue2blue]

Yes. It's my understanding that a laminate top would typically be a plywood, though it might refer to other layered materials.

 

Plywood, as I understand it, typically refers to wooden laminates arranged crossgrain (or angled).

 

 

There are a lot of positive qualities to plywood... typically, but not always, stronger... greater resistance to warpage... different resonance (which, of course, can cut both ways).

[axelsam]

Thanks blue2blue. But what do you think "high grade" maple top means?

[blue2blue]

Not low grade? Not spruce?

 

Seriously... I dunno.

 

It's just one of those marketing things. Likely true. No doubt at least arguable. Technically/legally meaningless.* But anyone who writes marketing copy finds himself saying stuff like that... you don't want to... it just comes out... and there's usually nothing else to say that anyone is REALLY going to understand.

 

PS... Guitarmaking buffs will hopefully jump in here and serve up an impromptu lecture on the fine points of solid vs. laminate tops. I was just trading on the vast knowledge I've gained from browsing those toilet-tank-top-sized catalogs GC and Sam Ash send out and a quick trip to the dictionary to check for not-so-esoteric gotchyas. My goal before I die is to become an acknowledged master of the obvious.

 

 

PPS... my knowledge of current and past guitar lines is so sketchy that until I saw the "ES" in the model number I wasn't even at all sure a "Switchmaster" was a guitar...

 

 

* It's like Chrysler's infamous and oft-imitated 70s TV ad series with Ricardo Montalb

[axelsam]

Thanks again blue2blue. Want to hear real irony? I write marking copy

for a living. No kidding. I work in advertising and write tv commercials.

Good gosh! I was hoodwinked by one of my own!

 

If anyone out there knows anything about laminates, plywoods or solid tops, please let me know!

[blue2blue]

Originally posted by axelsam Thanks again blue2blue. Want to hear real irony? I write marking copy for a living. No kidding. I work in advertising and write tv commercials. Good gosh! I was hoodwinked by one of my own! ...

 

 

My best laugh of the day so far!

 

It's a hat I've worn in various jobs and still occasionally wear as a web developer and as second nature as it is, it's also second nature to fall into what I'm now calling state-of-the-art mode... you know... vague, more or less inarguable claims that, when push comes to shove, could probably be applied to any of the competitors, too, and mean just about... nothin'. State of the art.

[MikeRivers]

 

Originally posted by axelsam Thanks blue2blue. But what do you think "high grade" maple top means?

About the same as "high grade" mic preamps. It means that that some marketeer is trying ot entice the buyer.

 

Guitar makers know how to choose wood for sound and appearance. But to a mass-maker like Gibson, other than the high grade acoustic guitars, appearance comes first. By veneering a good solid piece of maple that may not be so attractive, they can make a guitar that works well as a guitar but looks like a "high quality" guitar.

 

Don't worry about what it's made of. Listen to it. Look at it. Play it. Is it worth TO YOU what you paid for it? Does it do what you expected it to do? Wood is all different, and it has a personality, just like singers or guitarists.

[Jon Chappell]

 

Originally posted by axelsam Also, is laminated top a euphemism for plywood? Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

Yes, "plywood" and "laminate" are virtually synonyms. Both mean layers of thinner wood glued together, but "plywood" has a cruder, more negative connotation, and is more at home in lumber talk than guitarmaking, even if guitarists (less so manufacturers) like to use it for expedience. Both include an attractive veneer top as the final layer, of course, and both would cross-grain their layers for extra strength.

 

As far as acoustic properties, a solid-wood top is more responsive, which is good in acoustic situations and more problematic when a pickup is involved, both for feedback propogation, but also because the vibrating wood top robs the strings of their vibrating energy. So the strings won't sustain as long, because their energy is tranferred to the top (a rigid top allows the strings to ring longer).

 

This can be a good or bad thing, as blue2blue points out, according to your taste. But a solid piece of wood that is good enough in appearance to be put on a guitar is definitely going to be more expensive than a composite layer, where only the final layer needs to pass aesthetic muster.

 

Pat Metheny can certainly afford any solid-top guitar he desires, but chooses the Gibson ES-175 -- a "plywood" guitar -- presumably, in part, for the responsiveness (or lack thereof) of the top. B.B. King played the ES-355 for years, but when it came time to put his name on the artist model, he elected to have the f-holes filled in -- to avoid feedback. These are two cases where artists opted against acoustic responsiveness -- showing that it's not always desirable in electric instruments.

 

In acoustic guitars, however, it's another story, of course. Most people agree that solid tops produce better tone than laminated tops.

[blue2blue]

 

Originally posted by Jon Chappell Yes, "plywood" and "laminate" are virtually ...[snip]

 

 

Great info, Jon! I knew lams were less prone to feedback issues but the stuff about solid tops absorbing more string energy (making a bigger, less-sustaining sound) makes so much sense but I never knew it before.

 

THANKS!

[MikeRivers]

 

Originally posted by blue2blue Great info, Jon! I knew lams were less prone to feedback issues but the stuff about solid tops absorbing more string energy (making a bigger, less-sustaining sound) makes so much sense but I never knew it before.

Whether you want string sustain or acoustic resonance depends on the design of the guitar. One of the principles of the solid body guitar is that you want the strings to sustain as long as possible on their own because the pickup and amplifier will give you the volume and, to a great extent, the tone. But pitting a thin veneer layer of quilted curly maple over a really dense block of crummy looking maple won't hurt the sound - this is hardly considered "plywood" - but will enhance the appearance, and most likely the price and value.

 

An acoustic guitar, on the other hand, depends on the strings exciting vibrations in the top. Don't look at it as "robbing" energy from the strings, it's how this type of guitar is supposed to work. The top radiates the string energy and it's bolstered by the resonance of the air inside the body.

 

In a hollow body electric guitar, the resonance of the body modifies the vibration of the string so that's what the pickups get. The designer adjusts things like the resonant qualities of the top and the body, the method of supporting the strings and pickups, and placement of the pickups to get the tone he's after. It's all part of the design.

 

Now, in the case of an acoustic guitar, a plywood (a stack of several pices of wood pieces all roughly the same thickness) top is generaly not as responsive to the strings as a properly chosen solid piece of wood, but it can be pretty good. Also, because plywood is manufactured rather than grown by nature, it can be more predictable. That's why you see more plywood tops on inexpensive guitars. They can make a lot of them that all sound pretty much the same without having a craftsman select pieces of wood and hand carve them to fine tune them. That costs a lot of money.

 

There's no reason why the outside lamination of a plywood top can't be selected for appearance, and it often is on a fairly high grade plywood top guitar. But you won't find a nice (otherwise) solid top guitar with a fancy veneer applied for appearance. They just don't do that, or at least they didn't used to. I haven't followed what they're turning out in Korea and Taiwan these days. It could happen. But given that this is mostly about a new Switchmaster out of the Gibson Custom plant, I suspect that it's still built like the guitar that it looks like.

 

I haven't seen a real Switchmaster in about 30 years so I really can't remember how they used to be. Given that the idea is to get a wide range of pickup sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't use a plywood top for its "more solid body" characteristics since I doubt anyone ever played one acoustically other than to fool around.

[blue2blue]

More great info!

 

Thanks, Mike!

[Roy Brooks]

I have a 1956 ES-175D with a laminated top, like on all ES-175s. I also have a Heritage H575 with a carved maple top. Both are nice guitars. And that ES-5 you ordered is not going to suck.