Jump to content

Pro Tools editing question...


Phil O'Keefe

Recommended Posts

Does anyone know if there is a command in PT that will allow you to edit the start points of multiple selected regions forwards or backwards by a user-determined amount all at once? Say 20 ms or 32 ms or whatever? I know about the "trim region start / end" to fill in gaps, but that just closes the gaps (whatever they are) and doesn't let you determine how far they'll overlap...

 

The reason I ask is due to editing issues I've noticed. Suppose you have a drummer who rushes the beat a bit, and you use Beat Detective to edit the performance, then close the gaps, but because the performer consistantly rushed, you'll have spots where the note attack shows up in the preceeding region and will be partially displayed, followed by the full note attack in the next region, resulting in a flam or double hit attack.. so far as I know, the only way to deal with that is to listen to the entire tune and then manually / individually adjust the start times of all the affected regions so they "cover up" the extra / unneeded attack of the preceeding region... and that's really time consuming...

 

Am I missing something obvious or well known? :o A search of the PT documentation isn't giving me any answers, so I came to the people who really know what's up! ;):D

 

Thanks for any input / suggestions, and happy holidays / Merry Christmas to you all! :wave:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Phil,

 

Not sure I completely understand your question, but you should be able to group the tracks, then use nudge to move the regions forward or back by a user determined amount--just set the nudge value to however many ms you want.

 

You do have to make sure you have the longest regions selected (if they are drums they probably are the exact same length), then you hit the + or - keys on the number pad to move them forward and back. I think moves the region boundries and leaves the audio in place.

 

You are on a PC, so the keyboard commands are slightly different. Look up "nudge" in the manual.

 

Merry Christmas

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Phil!

Merry Xmas :wave:

 

 

If you're getting overlapped sounds or "flams" might mean that you're not making Beat Detective (BD) work right.

 

You have to play a little more with the Analysis, Sensitivity and Resolution to get the best transient detection and avoid the flamming.

 

And when editing the smoothing, try the "Fill Gaps and Crossfade" and play with the "Crossfade lenght".

 

The most of the times I get a track corrected by BD, I have to do no editing.

 

 

... perhaps I did not understand your question?

:confused:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

When you're grouped, you can of course make one edit that will affect the group in exactly the same way. But I think you know that all too well so I am also confused by your question.

 

About the flam...

 

I don't use Beat Detective because I'll do a better job than it can. Make your edit at the kick transient let's say. Move it where you want it, say 20ms after the grid? Now, go back before that edit and slice after the previous transient. Now time stretch that post transient sound up to your time adjusted kick. Past it actually, then adjust your region to reveal your time corrected kick and crossfade. Rinse; repeat. It

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could show you this visually very easily; verbally, it's much harder to describe. :o

 

I'm getting great transient detection in BD. I know how to nudge things forwards and backwards in time via the nudge commands - I use them all the tme. :) I don't think PT can do what I want, but let me see if I can describe it a little bit better.

 

You have a multitracked drum performance at 120 bpm, that goes for 8 bars (4/4 time). If played in perfect time, that's 500 ms for a quarter note, 250 ms for an eighth note. You open BD and anaylize it and break it into individual regions. BD gets all the transients correct, and each region starts with a nice clean note attack. So far, so good. You hit hard quantize (Cntrl / 0 on a Windows PC, probably Apple / 0 on a Mac - it's been a while :o ) and the region start points are quantized to the grid at whatever value you have selected. Let's assume it has 8th note subdivisions... but if the drummer rushes the performance, and those hits were played 230 ms apart in spots instead of 250 ms. You quantize, and everything's on the beat insofar as note attacks, but you have some "gaps" between some of the regions. You can then use the "trim region start (or end) to fill selection" command, and it will automatically trim the start of the regions to fill the gaps in front of the individual hits.. but when you use that command, it's just going to trim all the region starts (or endings, but the start option seems best suited to what I'm discussing here) just enough to close the gaps, but no further.

 

Here's where the problem kicks in. The start of region 1 is right on the beat, and the start of region 2 is right on the beat... but when you use that global trim regions to fill gaps command, all it does is fill the gaps by moving all the region starts just enough to fill the gaps. It does that by moving the region start just enough to fill the gap. But suppose our imaginary drummer rushed the beat enough so that there's a hit at zero on the timeline, then a second one at 220 ms. Assume the post quantize "gap" was only 20 ms long, and PT fills that gap... but you're still going to have 10ms of the second note attack, which is there as the start of region 2, ALSO showing up at the end of region 1. Bang - you've got a double hit occuring at the transition between region 1 and region 2. It's the same note attack, but it is now showing up in two locations - at the end of region 1 (where you don't want it) and the start of region 2, where it belongs.

 

If your drummer had a tendency to rush a lot, then you might have several of those across the song... and the only way I know of to get rid of them is to manually go in with the trimmer tool ( ] or [ ) and trim the region start of each one of those hits so that the beginning of region 2 starts at least 10 ms earlier, so that it "covers up" the extra note attack that is at the end of region 1.

 

What I'm asking is if there is a way to select multiple regions and hit a command that would make the region starts of all the selected regions trim simultaneoulsly by a user-selectable amount. In this case, maybe 15 ms. Not by selecting a 15 ms value and nudging all the regions - I know I can do that. :) But that moves their entire placement. I'm asking if there is a way to trim all the region starts simultaneously so that they all started 15 ms earlier - leaving the region in its original, post-quantized location, but forcing the start of the regions to be lengthened - exposing more of the region right before the note attack (the decaying part of the preceeding note, just before the next note attack) - essentially performing the same action as manually using the trimmer tool to "cover up" the extra note attack at the end of region 1 with the decay of hit 1 that should be right in front of (but previously "unexposed") region 2. What I'm looking for would be a similar command to the trim region start to fill gaps command, but instead of "trim region start to fill gaps", how about a "trim all regions starts 20 ms or 30 ms" or whatever value you needed.

 

Again, it's hard to describe, but really easy to see on screen. I'll see if I can't get some screenshots up to better illustrate what I'm talking about. :)

 

Thanks for the help and suggestions folks. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Originally posted by Lee Knight

When you're grouped, you can of course make one edit that will affect the group in exactly the same way. But I think you know that all too well so I am also confused by your question.

 

About the flam...

 

I don't use Beat Detective because I'll do a better job than it can. Make your edit at the kick transient let's say. Move it where you want it, say 20ms after the grid? Now, go back before that edit and slice after the previous transient. Now time stretch that post transient sound up to your time adjusted kick. Past it actually, then adjust your region to reveal your time corrected kick and crossfade. Rinse; repeat. It

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Like I said above Phil, If you hold option and the plus/minus keys, it will nudge your edit selection, without moving the region. I think that's what the command is, but I'm on vacation, so I don't have Pro Tools with me. Look in the manual index under nudge.

 

There should also be some crossfade preferences in Beat Detective that could be useful.

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

"What I'm asking is if there is a way to select multiple regions and hit a command that would make the region starts of all the selected regions trim simultaneoulsly by a user-selectable amount. "

 

Yes, I seem to recall a way. I'm away from home on vacation (sitting in an "internet cafe" in San Francisco as I type). Not having PT in front of me, it's hard to recall but... isn't there an offset in the Beat Detective window? I believe you can tell Beat Detective beforehand your offset requirements.

 

With regards to time expansion: Serato. And I haven't tried Digi's new one. But even the lowly original digi version works fine providing you only stretch the space. And on drum tracks, that's the majority of the region. You really do have a lot on non-note space to stretch without artifacts.

 

Re-using non-note space like you're suggesting is much more detectible than time stretching in my opinion. I've done that and you can hear the repeated "air" if you know what I mean. The time stretch option is time consuming though, as you so rightly pointed out.

 

Still, if you want undetectible drum correction, I have had completely invisible results with the time expansion method and recommend you give it a shot.

 

Serato.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...