Jump to content

buying my first preamp


ElGenius1

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Hello,

 

I would like to know how much you have to spend on a preamp before you start seeing results that differ from 'onboard pres' and get you into the ''pro-grade album quality'' category.

 

I got a Konnekt 8 interface which I think has great onboard pre's, but was wondering If i can achieve 'album-quality' in my recordings with a nice dedicated preamp, and how much would I have to spend to get there? (feel free to drop names of pre's)

 

This will be my first preamp ever. Any help is appreciated, I know most of you are pro's so I value your opinions greatly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Probably more then you can afford usually pros use Great River, API's John Hardy, etc.etc. alot of these are wanna be clones of Neve 1073 which is probably the mac daddy of all pres I seen a nice Neve board on eBay awhile back with the 1073's on board starting bid was 500K but that was a vintage board to. Most say you won't tell a difference until you start paying around a grand a pre then you'll start noticing the difference. But there's also the mics and the room your recording in. Type of gear your recording then the talent of the player. Then theirs your control room that has to be treated then your monitors then of course how you mix it all together and is it ITB out of the box. I've heard some pretty decent recordings using budget gear because they knew the knowledge behind it and milked it for everything it's worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Originally posted by ElGenius1

Hello,


I would like to know how much you have to spend on a preamp before you start seeing results that differ from 'onboard pres' and get you into the ''pro-grade album quality'' category.

 

 

While I do not disagree with Twostone's answer, in my opinion, an inexpensive mic preamp such as the FMR RNP (~US$475 for two mic preamps) yields professional enough results - if you can't make a professional sounding recording with these, it ain't the mic preamp.

 

It's clear, clean, and open and has enough headroom, is flattering for just about any microphone, and sounds good enough that a recording engineer can't make an excuse such as "Oh, my recording would have come out good if it weren't for the mic preamps." An amazing value for the money. I own two of these.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

thanks for taking the time to reply, fellas.

UstadKhanAli - I have heard good things about that RNP, but I was wondering if you have heard or tried out a Grace 101 or True systems P-solo, they are also around the price of the RNP (though they are single channel, not dual like the RNP). I was wondeirng how those pre's compare in quality to the RNP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author

 

Originally posted by ElGenius1

I would like to know how much you have to spend on a preamp before you start seeing results that differ from 'onboard pres' and get you into the ''pro-grade album quality'' category.

One really has nothing to do with the other. There's no such thing as "pro-grade album quality" gear. That's really only a function of the music and the person using the gear.

 

The first outboard preamp that I reviewed was one of the Focusrite Green series. I had (and still have) a Soundcraft 600 console at the time, and couldn't figure out what all the fuss about outboard preamps was. It didn't sound any better than what I already had. But if I had a Radio Shack mixer or a SoundBlaster card with a mic input, I'm sure I would have noticed an improvement.

 

For the sake of proving that I wasn't deaf and still had some good taste, my dealer loaned me a Daking preamp for comparison. That was definitely different, but not necessarily better (but certainly not worse) than my console preamps and the Focusrite.

 

I recently had a Little Labs LMNOPre in for review. That sounded cleaner and quieter than the Soundcraft, pretty similar to my Great River MP-2, but that was nearly ten years after the Focusrite.

 

I wouldn't spend any money on outboard preamps until you understand enough about the sound of your own system so that you know what kind of change you're looking for. Then buy the preamp that will give you that sort of change. It might be $2500 GML or a $100 Studio Projects, or something in between. It's not about the money, it's about the sound you get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I own a Grace 101 and an RNP. They are both great preamps and I didn't sell the Grace once I got the RNP.

 

Again, they are both quality pre's and they both will allow you to stack tracks without the build up of crud you get from lesser gear, BUT, two channels for the price of one make the RNP a clear winner over the Grace.

 

The Grace is a bit warmer, the RNP more 'in your face.' The Grace also has a low cut switch where the RNP doesn't, and if your favorite color is chrome....

 

 

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

thanks for taking the time to reply, fellas.

UstadKhanAli - I have heard good things about that RNP, but I was wondering if you have heard or tried out a Grace 101 or True systems P-solo, they are also around the price of the RNP (though they are single channel, not dual like the RNP). I was wondeirng how those pre's compare in quality to the RNP.

 

No, I haven't compared them with either, but I'm confident that it's good enough that it would stack up favorably with anything near its price range. You may like something else more or less than the RNP, of course - we're allowing for personal taste and subjectivity here! :D - but it would be of comparable quality, in my opinion.

 

D Charles has had some experience with the Grace 101 and the RNP, and astutely points out the ability to be able to stack tracks". Sure, you can tell how good a preamp is to a certain degree by listening to, say, an acoustic guitar, voice, piano, whatever. But you *really* start hearing how good (or lousy) a preamp is when you record a bunch of tracks using the same preamp and then start mixing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

There's no such thing as "pro-grade album quality" gear. That's really only a function of the music and the person using the gear.

 

 

I nominate this the difinitive answer to most posts on all pro audio forums!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I nominate this the difinitive answer to most posts on all pro audio forums!

 

I guess so, and I agree with where Mike is going with that, but I can't help but think that there should be some ballpark sort of area in which an audio professional can produce stellar results without having to struggle or fight the preamps. I mean, I know what the guy is trying to get at: is there some ballpark dividing line in which one can, given that everything else is there, yield excellent audio (and no, I'm not dimwitted enough to think that there's any sort of discrete dividing line, or that this is anything more than an educated opinion)?

 

So, from my experience, I can tell you that Akai MG1214 mic preamps don't cut the mustard. They're awful. Fortunately, you don't have to worry about that anymore since it's not made!!! :D

 

Mackie 1202 (not VLZ mic preamps) still require struggling to get a decent sound but it is possible to record a release that sounds really good with some tweaking and work and a lot of knowledge and moving the mic around, assuming that one has good mics and good musicians, yadda yadda yadda. In my opinion, an audio professional would be able to still yield good results, but would likely grumble about the preamps, fighting them all the way.

 

VLZ Pro mic preamps are a whole lot better, and in my opinion, are much closer to getting to that imaginary ballpark dividing line (I have not worked with Onyx mic preamps, but they're allegedly an improvement over VLZ Pro mic preamps).

 

RNPs are, from my experience, the point where I don't feel like I am battling the equipment anymore, where the audio "stacks" well in mixes, where I can pretty much get what it coming out of whatever it is I am recording, etc. There are probably others. Hopefully someone can have some sort of useful information.

 

That's my opinion. It's only an opinion. YMMV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author
I guess so, and I agree with where Mike is going with that, but I can't help but think that there should be some ballpark sort of area in which an audio professional can produce stellar results without having to struggle or fight the preamps.

That's true, but with today's products, it's hard to find something that's bad enough to cause a struggle.

Mackie 1202 (not VLZ mic preamps) still require struggling to get a decent sound but it is possible to record a release that sounds really good with some tweaking and work and a lot of knowledge and moving the mic around, assuming that one has good mics and good musicians

Yup, again, but remember, that CR1202 and CR1604 are more than 15 year old designs. The VLZ was a significant improvement, the VLZ Pro was marginally better, and now they have a new one in that series, as well as the Onyx, which is darn good. And while there's little question that an SM57 sounds better into my Great River than my 1402 VLZ Pro, that same SM57 can be made to sound better into the Mackie by simply hanging about a 500 ohm resistor across it. And mic position is equally important regardless of the preamp - but it may be easier to hear small changes with a better preamp, and that's where the advantage comes in. But you have to be experienced enough to hear those small changes. Otherwise, either it doesn't matter or you have to rely on luck or book learning to get the mic in the right position. Both, really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

That's true, but with today's products, it's hard to find something that's bad enough to cause a struggle.

 

 

See, I'd have to disagree with you there. I've heard Behringer and Alesis mic preamps (unfortunately), and I don't like the way they sound. Admittedly, I haven't mixed an album on it, and only seen other people use it, but I don't think they sound good, and I have a feeling that I would have to struggle extra to get a great-sounding CD out of it. I think I could do it, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to try!!

 

I don't feel that way with some of the other better mic preamps I mentioned. Again, YMMV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Sort of random, but I was actually thinking about the same thing the other day. I finally have my studio set up and have good monitors and a nice mic (akg 414) and I'm pretty happy, but was thinking I could step up a bit on the mic preamp. The options I have in house right now are a art tube pre (which loves 57's) my mixer (an allen heath mixdown 8) the pre's in my M-Audio soundcard and a Joe Meek VC3. So far the AKG likes the Meek the best, but it would be nice to find an even better match. That said all of these cheap crappy pre's do sound different and it is kind of nice to just have things that sound different. So anyway if I was going to spend under 500.00 what do you think would match up nice with the akg?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author
I've heard Behringer and Alesis mic preamps (unfortunately), and I don't like the way they sound.

Well, you don't have to stoop THAT low. ;) Your comment was that a professional would struggle. I suspect that a professional would do the best he could and say it was the best he could do with what he had to work with. An amateur might never get to the the point where the equipment is limiting him. Once he recognizes it (rather than just believes it because of what others say about his gear) he loses his amateur standing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Well, you don't have to stoop
THAT
low.
;)
Your comment was that a
professional
would struggle. I suspect that a professional would do the best he could and say it was the best he could do with what he had to work with.

 

I'll go as low as I have to... :D

 

Yeah, that's about right. A professional would always make do with the equipment at hand. S/he may have to "struggle" a bit (in other words, it might take a great deal more effort), but a professional would still get the best sound possible from the tools at hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'll go as low as I have to...
:D

Yeah, that's about right. A professional would always make do with the equipment at hand. S/he may have to "struggle" a bit (in other words, it might take a great deal more effort), but a professional would still get the best sound possible from the tools at hand.

 

Story I once heard about Will Lee, showing up for what he thought was a singing gig. The producer informed him he was hired for singing AND playing bass on the gig, but he hadn't brought any bass gear. The engineer found an old, crappy bass in the corner of the studio that just wouldn't stay in tune, and Mr. Lee said he'd work with it. The engineer was amazed to watch Ol' Will though the control room window bending every single string up to being in tune on the track.

 

Maybe urban legend, but I still think stories like this inspire me...

 

(And I believe one of our forumites might even chime in that the man smelled of weed the whole time... but I digress.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

UstadKhanAli - I'm even wondering whether I need a preamp in the first place. I mean, the interface i got (konnekt 8) supplies up to 62 dB of gain, yes it gets a bit noisy when u turn it all the way, but i was wondering how much gain does a dynamic mic need? (like an sm7, ev re20, or sm57)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

UstadKhanAli - I'm even wondering whether I need a preamp in the first place. I mean, the interface i got (konnekt 8) supplies up to 62 dB of gain, yes it gets a bit noisy when u turn it all the way, but i was wondering how much gain does a dynamic mic need? (like an sm7, ev re20, or sm57)

 

 

Your current mic preamps are probably fine (I've never heard 'em before) in terms of gain. That's enough to run dynamic mics since they don't require much gain typically - unless, of course, you are recording really quiet sources. If you're recording voice, guitar cabinets, percussion, drums, bass cabinets, etc., you should have no problems.

 

You might want to upgrade to another mic preamp if you either don't like the sound of them, want something different, want to power a ribbon mic, etc.

 

But TC Electronic, from my experience, doesn't make junk, and I would think that your mic preamps would be decent already (again, never heard them).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I've just ordered the
FMR RNP
. I'll be anxious to see what it does with my three lousy mics here... (
SHURE BETA 58a, SHURE BG 5.0, IBANEZ TECH II
)

 

 

I love the FMR RNP....not familiar with the other mics, but Shure Beta 58a isn't a lousy mic, is it? We used to use one for band rehearsals and it sounded fine. I've never used one for recording.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...