Drummers & Volume

[philbo]

Anybody ever notice that the very best drummers are ones who are able to blend in at any volume?

 

I've played with some extremely talented 'loud-only' drummers, but the very best ones always seem to be able to automatically adjust their playing volume to blend with whatever they're playing with, even if it's a single finger-picked acoustic guitar or a flute or whatever.

 

Maybe it's a consequence of being in the habit of listening to the other players? Because, if you do that, drowning them out becomes counterproductive...

 

Simile to a conversation: If the person you're talking to yells everything they say, how long do you want to listen to them?

 

I'm no expert, just seeing if others on the forum have experienced this.

 

I'm wondering if maybe the 'loud-only' thing is something that is only made possible by the use of amplified instruments and attendant high SPL levels on stage? Did it used to be different before the age of amplifiers?

[Magpel]

Absolutely true. And it is so sweet to play with a drummer whose time and feel and balance are there at lower volume levels.

 

I think it may have something to do with the extreme kinesthetic, gross-motor nature of the instrument, because in so many less-accomplished drummers, tempo and volume are, uh, associated.

 

Also, levelled drum dynamics are such a feature of the standard modern rock sound. I wonder if it's somethig like guitarists: we can't get our "sound" with a tube amp set to "2." For us, there's small amps, PODs and dummy load devices.

[coyote-1]

Nah... Watch old films & vids of Buddy Rich or Louis Bellson in action. There are MANY times when they are hitting hard and playing loud.

 

I'm wondering if maybe the 'loud-only' thing is something that is only made possible by the use of amplified instruments and attendant high SPL levels on stage? Did it used to be different before the age of amplifiers?

 

"Loud only" comes from dense heads. Anyone who plays any instrument ought have some mastery of dynamics. True that there's a volume below which rock drums don't work, but smart arrangers take that into account and find another way to keep the pulse going.

 

Any drummer ought be able to have a wide dynamic range.

[D Charles]

I've tried to work with unexperienced drummers (or only loud ones really) and get them to hit a tom as soft as possible and gradually work up to super loud. I try and explain how around 80% actually sounds louder than full on as it's rounder and the hardest hit flops and smushes. And they go "Yeah, cool..." and then keep playing that annoying too loud way.

 

Another pet peeve is this one cat who would just speed the tempo to the moon every time I took a guitar solo. You'd come back in singing the third verse like a chip monk or something.

[Lee Knight]

I completely agree with the opening post. 100%. The drummer that plays in my group and I use for hire when I can is like this. You analogy with a conversation is apt. An acoustic guitar only... he's softly pedaling a nice billowy kick drum and lightly tapping out and rattling snare figure. A Marshall speaks up on 11 and he's kicking up to make the Marshall sound eve louder.

 

Then there are the guys that just pound. An old friend of mine is this way.

 

"Hey. It's kind of an introspective thing, just lighten up a little. Subtle."

 

"Oh totally. OK.. got it." BOOM BOOM Thwack!

 

 

Turning him down in the mix just doesn't really fix that. You know...

[the-good-way]

 

I'm wondering if maybe the 'loud-only' thing is something that is only made possible by the use of amplified instruments and attendant high SPL levels on stage? Did it used to be different before the age of amplifiers?

 

 

hmm...well, wind can get really damn loud - beating the crap out of the skins against a horn section playing hot is there too

in some contexts, the electrification of the guitar just allowed it to "keep up"

 

but I suppose that's about "loud", not "loud-only" and I guess that'd be relative - still young bucks, with horns, like all young bucks, can tend to overstrut "look at me"-loudness sometimes ensues

 

eh, just one little piecethere, this is shaping up to be a neat thread me thinks

[UstadKhanAli]

These are all good points...I agree with all the posts here. There's that 80% area where louder than that, the drum actually doesn't seem quite as robust anymore. That's what makes a great drummer so incredibly amazing to work with, to record, to play in a band with, everything. They really elevate everybody else and the song by great playing, dynamics, articulation, and control.

[MikeRivers]

 

Anybody ever notice that the very best drummers are ones who are able to blend in at any volume?

ALL drummers are able to blend in at any volume. All others need not apply.

 

Good drummers will also be able to blend the sound of the drums in their kit so that if you put up spot mics, they'll be to add presence rather than to balance volume or tone.

I'm wondering if maybe the 'loud-only' thing is something that is only made possible by the use of amplified instruments and attendant high SPL levels on stage? Did it used to be different before the age of amplifiers?

Of course it used to be different. The band leader was like the orchestra conductor and controlled the mix from the front of the bandstand. Today, everyone turns up as loud as they want and the drummer just has to compete. Why do you think drummers want to hear their drums in their monitor?

[offramp]

As a drummer, I can never, ever recall a time duriing the past 30 years when I wanted to hear my drums in my monitor.

[UstadKhanAli]

We rarely, if ever, have had drums in our monitors when playing live, and certainly not in the rehearsal studio. If you have to amplify something that is already that loud, you really seriously need to question how loud everything is in general.

[Super 8]

I stood next to Bun E. Carlos one time when he was playing in a bar and I could not believe how hard he played. That man plays hard. Fine drummer though. You could set your watch to his time keeping, but I was glad it wasn't my kit he was wailing on.

 

I agree with what is being said here, although I do find it interesting when guitarists complain about drummers being too loud.